[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you have it backwards. If you mix with bass heavy hps your mix will have LESS bass than if you mix with bass light hps. If you mix with bass light hps(or even 'neutral/flat' hps) your resulting mix will have bass that's really over the top on many consumer systems with boosted low end and subs. At least that's the OP's main concern as I understand it.

I'll give you an analogy. You have two glasses of the same height. Glass A represents a flat mix made on flat speakers. Glass B is wider than Glass A and represents a boosted mix on boosted speakers. Now, try to put the water from Glass B into Glass A and tell me what happens.

You can apply this analogy to speakers, too...meaning when you pour the liquid of Glass A into Glass B, you'll still have space to boost it (if you want to make a nice boost cocktail, or something). I hope that clarifies my point.

 

[lejaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll give you an analogy. You have two glasses of the same height. Glass A represents a flat mix made on flat speakers. Glass B is wider than Glass A and represents a boosted mix on boosted speakers.

The point I was making was that if you are mixing with bass heavy headphones(like the aforementioned Ultrasones?) or speakers, you will wind up with a finished mix that sounds bass light on a flat/neutral system...and that will sound flat/neutral on a bass boosted system, like most consumer systems. Maybe we're addressing two different issues?

 

[Stemage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif You'll never doing to find any bass punch in the 20hz-50hz area, especially not with rock music. The reason is very simple: the frequency that gives the bass it's punch is much higher, the lowest that it starts is 60 hz and goes up to 150 hz. From there, you roll the bass down to 20-30hz. You need to focus more on the upper bass and lower mid freq. This is where the punch of the bass resides, but I'm not going to get into a lesson on how to mix right now, just a quick tip.

You aren't following my problem. I know where the punch is supposed to be and that's where I put my focus. But with the kick track EQing I'm doing these days, I am ending up with accidental overtones at those low frequencies. They're there... I'm hearing them.... and it sucks to miss them. And I need to make sure they're in the reference so I can make them GO AWAY... for the exact reasons you just mentioned.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif You'll never doing to find any bass punch in the 20hz-50hz area, especially not with rock music. The reason is very simple: the frequency that gives the bass it's punch is much higher, the lowest that it starts is 60 hz and goes up to 150 hz. From there, you roll the bass down to 20-30hz.

That's not true, just listen to e.g. Bombtrack. There's a lot of stuff going on from 40 Hz upwards.

Put a roll-off at 60 Hz in there and tell me that you didn't affect the punch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll give you an analogy. You have two glasses of the same height. Glass A represents a flat mix made on flat speakers. Glass B is wider than Glass A and represents a boosted mix on boosted speakers. Now, try to put the water from Glass B into Glass A and tell me what happens. You can apply this analogy to speakers, too...meaning when you pour the liquid of Glass A into Glass B, you'll still have space to boost it (if you want to make a nice boost cocktail, or something). I hope that clarifies my point.

It's the other way around!

Glass A (flat) is wider. You fill glass A and everything's fine. Now pour it into B and it will overflow, i.e. bass boost will ruin the track. Take a full glass B (= fine) and pour it into A, you'll find that something's missing.

And that's why many recordings sound bad. Thank you, water!

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's not true, just listen to e.g. Bombtrack. There's a lot of stuff going on from 40 Hz upwards. Put a roll-off at 60 Hz in there and tell me that you didn't affect the punch.

40Hz it's sub and not punch.

Seems you didn't really follow the thread, it's about mixing with K701. So, Bombtrack is after a good mix and mastering process. Means the sound engineer all ready cut the roll off for you...

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif 40Hz it's sub and not punch. Seems you didn't really follow the thread, it's about mixing with K701. So, Bombtrack is after a good mix and mastering process. Means the sound engineer all ready cut the roll off for you...

At ~40 Hz and not 60 as you suggested.

 

[sonofabit]

I'd like to revive this thread a bit because I'm still teetering on the edge of buying a pair of k702s.

the bass issue is a HUGE concern, because I'm mixing electronic music (not remixing, and not djing, i mean mixing instrument tracks to make a song) which needs a good low end.

If I'm understanding everything I've read so far, the k702s are EXCELLENT reference headphones for everything EXCEPT bass heavy stuff like electronic music, because since the bass isn't as full (even if it's clean) I'd end up boosting it and drowning my mix on regular speakers.

I understand the idea of compensating, but I'm just not that good of an engineer and like the op said, I wouldn't know where to fiddle with the eq.

i'm thinking of going with the audio technica ath-m50 they are the only other ones I've found to be good for mixing, even though they're closed (I had my heart set on open-back)

any opinions related to these points would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

EDIT: by the way op, did you end up replacing them, and if so, with what?

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofabit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd like to revive this thread a bit because I'm still teetering on the edge of buying a pair of k702s. the bass issue is a HUGE concern, because I'm mixing electronic music (not remixing, and not djing, i mean mixing instrument tracks to make a song) which needs a good low end. If I'm understanding everything I've read so far, the k702s are EXCELLENT reference headphones for everything EXCEPT bass heavy stuff like electronic music, because since the bass isn't as full (even if it's clean) I'd end up boosting it and drowning my mix on regular speakers. I understand the idea of compensating, but I'm just not that good of an engineer and like the op said, I wouldn't know where to fiddle with the eq. i'm thinking of going with the audio technica ath-m50 they are the only other ones I've found to be good for mixing, even though they're closed (I had my heart set on open-back) any opinions related to these points would be greatly appreciated. thanks! EDIT: by the way op, did you end up replacing them, and if so, with what?

You can try both hps at guitar center, or some other music store in your area.

 

[sonofabit]

unfortunately my area isn't great at stocking stuff like this. they have tons of huge speakers and guitars, but when it comes to pro audio, it's stuffed into a tiny room, and i already know they don't stock the k702s

 

[FMAF]

Hey guys !
anyone know how good works akg 240 mkii for rock music ??. 
 
thank a lot

 

[lejaz]

there's a big divergence of opinion on that point. The bass on the 702 sounds about right to my ears listening to acoustic jazz. Any more bass would overpower the other instruments.  Acix and quite a few other audio engineers recommend them, so they obviously think they are neutral, or close to it. Others strongly dispute that point however. What it comes down to is the fact that there is NO consensus on what is 'neutral' bass. Most people,  FWIR say the m50 bass is north of neutral. Not sure they would be ideal for mixing. You could look into the Fischer FA003 and some of the GMP's. Pick your poison.
Quote:

I'd like to revive this thread a bit because I'm still teetering on the edge of buying a pair of k702s.

the bass issue is a HUGE concern, because I'm mixing electronic music (not remixing, and not djing, i mean mixing instrument tracks to make a song) which needs a good low end.

If I'm understanding everything I've read so far, the k702s are EXCELLENT reference headphones for everything EXCEPT bass heavy stuff like electronic music, because since the bass isn't as full (even if it's clean) I'd end up boosting it and drowning my mix on regular speakers.

I understand the idea of compensating, but I'm just not that good of an engineer and like the op said, I wouldn't know where to fiddle with the eq.

i'm thinking of going with the audio technica ath-m50 they are the only other ones I've found to be good for mixing, even though they're closed (I had my heart set on open-back)

any opinions related to these points would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

EDIT: by the way op, did you end up replacing them, and if so, with what?