[Shike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ should read "mixing used to be done with speakers". The times they have-a-changed. Most people listen primarily with headphones these days.

That's irrelevant. Most mastering is still done with speakers, and for a good reason.

 

[sampson_smith]

Just out of curiosity: What is that one good reason?

 

[rds]

^x2 ...the music industry should be moving towards binaural, but we all know the industry moves at glacial speeds and fears any kind of change from the status quo.

 

[paulb09]

This mixing crap always comes up. If you want to make it sound pretty good for headphones and speakers then you need to use both during development. Yes you can use speakers only and still have it sound good with headphones, but there are a few things you can do on speakers that'll turn out bad for headphones.

Besides, I bet monitors aren't flawless on a budget anyway.

 

[TwoTrack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulb09 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This mixing crap always comes up. If you want to make it sound pretty good for headphones and speakers then you need to use both during development. Yes you can use speakers only and still have it sound good with headphones, but there are a few things you can do on speakers that'll turn out bad for headphones.

Well said.

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sampson_smith /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just out of curiosity: What is that one good reason?

The ability to treat a room and have a near perfectly flat frequency response with minimal calibration.

With headphones there's always a compromise somewhere. Always.

 

[sampson_smith]

Isn't having to treat the room one of the biggest compromises of them all? Minimal calibration? It sounds like a labor-intensive process, at least when first setting up a good studio. Piles of effort can go into room treatment and in many cases one still needs to equalize the speakers to render the sound received accurately flat. I think, given this, that there are plenty of good reasons why relatively flat headphones are great contenders for studio monitoring.

 

[lejaz]

I agree with paulb09...unless the OP has the kind of money that goes into setting up a professional studio, his speakers and room would be as much, or more, of a compromise than the headphones. Also, isn't the OP comparing the bass of the k701 to his home stereo and car speakers? Possibly the 701's are telling the truth about the bass and the other systems are way too boosted in the low end...or the truth may be somewhere in the middlle. And if he listens with ipod ear buds he won't hear any bass at all, so it's got to be a compromise to get the mix to sound good on all systems. The best song I've heard in a long time was mixed on hd280's, and a lot of stuff mixed in pro studios sounds like crap, so there's something to be said for placing talent before gear anyway.

 

[rhythmdevils]

don't get expensive amps to try to coax bass out of the 701. An amp will only improve it's character, which will always be tight, fast, light bass. If you want a different signature, get a different headphone. Only thing I can think of would be the HD600. But nothing will be as airy as the 701 while having any bass to speak of. If the airyness of the 701 is ok to sacrifice, or a good thing at all, only you can decide.

 

[runswithaliens]

While you're trying to decide on your next pair of expensive headphones, pick up a pair of Yamaha RH-5Ma monitor headphones and give them a shot. I think they come fairly close to being "unbiased across all frequencies". I'm still waiting to try them out for mixing, but I haven't been in the mood lately, however they constantly amaze me with their balanced sound while listening to music on them. They are very much a narrow sound stage but that may or may not be a hindrance in panning.

 

[Sherwood]

You don't want flat headphones, man, because your target audience isn't listening with them. Your car is not flat in the slightest.

The pinnacle of headphones for most folks seems to be the "beats" by Dre. If you're mixing for your intended audience, give those a shot.

 

[lejaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't want flat headphones, man, because your target audience isn't listening with them. Your car is not flat in the slightest. The pinnacle of headphones for most folks seems to be the "beats" by Dre. If you're mixing for your intended audience, give those a shot.

I think you left the iPod generation, who are listening with cheap ear buds, out of the picture. he should get some cheap $5 earbuds.

 

[Stemage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif unless the OP has the kind of money that goes into setting up a professional studio, his speakers and room would be as much, or more, of a compromise than the headphones.

This = yes. I have a very odd office/studio, on a converted porch with glass around a strange half of the room. I do not have the acoustic set up for near fields - and I'm confident I can find a headphone solution that can be 80% of my mixes/masters, with my other 5 sources being the other 20%. That's the plan, and I think it's possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Possibly the 701's are telling the truth about the bass and the other systems are way too boosted in the low end...or the truth may be somewhere in the middle.

This = yes as well - the part about the truth being somewhere in the middle. Most people listen to scooped setups for leisure - that's a fact. I could take 20 to 30 hz, up that by 8 db, and it will sound fine on these headphones - yet destroy ANY other stereo with a sub. Obviously, I have to mix with the idea of compromise across all systems, but these cans just won't do the trick when mixing for any system with a sub - unless I compensate with EQ prior, which I really don't want to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif A lot of stuff mixed in pro studios sounds like crap, so there's something to be said for placing talent before gear anyway.

These days, I'd almost go as far to say that MOST of the pop/rock/metal out of pro studios sound like crap.

Still, I need that low end for the kick/bass presence. Mixing electronic on these headphones would probably be a bad idea as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif don't get expensive amps to try to coax bass out of the 701. An amp will only improve it's character, which will always be tight, fast, light bass. If you want a different signature, get a different headphone. Only thing I can think of would be the HD600. But nothing will be as airy as the 701 while having any bass to speak of. If the airyness of the 701 is ok to sacrifice, or a good thing at all, only you can decide.

You took the words out of my mouth, and tomorrow my HD600's will be arriving. We'll see how round 2 goes. I've also switched out the Bithead for the Millet Starving Student. I'll get a dedicated DAC later that I know will JIVE with Sonar. The guys at headphone.com mentioned that they, "had never heard of Sonar". Sure it's not as popular as Cubase or Protools, but it's CAKEWALK. I was a bit shocked by that, but I digress.

Thank you all!

 

[Valens7]

Varia Suite rocked my freakin' socks off Stemage. Thanks.

 

[lejaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stemage /img/forum/go_quote.gif This = yes as well - the part about the truth being somewhere in the middle. Most people listen to scooped setups for leisure - that's a fact. I could take 20 to 30 hz, up that by 8 db, and it will sound fine on these headphones - yet destroy ANY other stereo with a sub. Obviously, I have to mix with the idea of compromise across all systems, but these cans just won't do the trick when mixing for any system with a sub - unless I compensate with EQ prior, which I really don't want to do. You took the words out of my mouth, and tomorrow my HD600's will be arriving.

Really glad you brought up the point about making your mixes compatible with a system with a sub. I'm mostly using k240DF's and obviously can't rely on them for that purpose...they're possibly more bass light than the k701's. That's why I always check my mixes on the Equation RP21 which give a whole lot more lows(maybe 4-5db)...still considering getting something like the GMP's or Senns. for the low end.