[GUIDE] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990 Models & More

[Rawrbington]

ahh thats interesting.  is current what i see  refered to as watts or mW? 
its a pioneer sx receiver from the 80s.  it plays my 32 and 80 ohm beyers well and even does a decent job on the 600 ohm 990s but im saving for a darkvoice or la figaro for them.  it just always struck me as odd that the 32 is quieter than the 80 out of all the things i play it out of. 
 
 
 
 

 

[Armaegis]

edit: snip

 

[tdockweiler]

Got my DT-770 600 ohm in today. For my own amusement I tried it with a docked Ipod Touch 2G and it sounds horrible. Not the headphones fault. My Ipod Touch lately has having an issue with too much treble and bloated bass. I haven't figured out if my dock is going bad or what, but I had to resolder it lately. The mids were very recessed, but it wasn't bass heavy thankfully. Not using that source again.
 
Used a DAC and the sound is really fairly well balanced. Reminds me a little of the DT-880 32 ohm I had. The treble does stick out a little. With a DAC the mids are not too recessed sounding. Sometimes it's easy to be fooled due to how the recording is made. Sometimes the vocals of Eddie Vedder sound recessed and distant, but that's how the recording is! Not always. Soundstage is pretty good.
 
These things seems to have quite a lot of detail. Maybe too much. I am getting a bit of sibilance, but it's probably in the recording. Pretty sure of it.
 
These could get fatiguing. Why can't I find the HD-600 for $117 instead of this?

Right now they're not falling into the category of being a "fun" headphone, but that's OK. It's sound right now isn't even remotely engaging, but no big deal.
 
What's funny is that the sound quality of tracks vary more on the Beyer DT-880/770 than most other headphones. They're very revealing.
 
DT-770 600 ohm definitely sounds totally different than the Pro 80.
 
BTW these don't feel too hard to drive. I have to crank the volume up to about the same level as my K501. Maybe 5% more. Right around 45% with my amp.
 
They also aren't nearly as comfortable as the Pro 80 due to the depth of the cups. About the same level of comfort as the DT-990. Luckily this pair I got for $117 listed as "Very Good" is more like New. I bought a D2000 from Amazon Warehouse Deals a month ago listed as "Very Good" and it was more like POOR due to a whole 1" section of paint missing.
 
Perfectly happy with the bass quantity right now. Just about right for me. Luckily I didn't get the bass heavy DT-770 600 ohm like some did.
 
If I don't like these I'll probably put them up in the forum for the price I paid instead of returning them.
 

EDIT: Seems like the soundstage is these is extremely accurate. Not huge, just very accurate. Totally spot on to how the recording is. Sometimes when music feels like it's coming from a distance, the DT-770 presents it just like how it is. One track I have sounds like it's recorded in a cave

 
Seems they're actually less comfortable than the DT-990 too. Stupid things touch the tips of my ears a lot like the DT-880 did. At least the cups aren't as shallow.
 
These things also seem to sound better with crossfeed. I usually turn that off. Seems a little less fatiguing with it on. Right now they seem pretty flat and neutral. The DT-770 600 ohm neutral? Huh?!

 

[Rawrbington]

i cannot believe you scored those for 117 bucks!
i thought i was lucky when i scored my 32 ohm 770s for 140.
 
your description reminds me a lot of the 32ohm.  just perhaps more highs and less lows on your 600 ohm.
and yes they are detail monsters.
 
much more balanced then the pro 80s though.
but for me the pro 80s still have a home on my head.  just not all the time.  only when i feel like rattling my brain a bit (usually drunk).
 
enjoy you lucky dog!
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Yeah I saw them on Amazon as a Warehouse Deals listing and I bought them in about 10 seconds. I bet they wouldn't last long! Even got them with next day delivery for $3.99
 
I've been listening to these all night so far and I like them. To me, this pair doesn't really have recessed mids with my amp. I also tried it on an E9. The mids actually seem more forward than a D2000 with a neutral amp. Even female vocals sounds good! The treble hasn't bothered me at all after the first hour.
 
They sure do make lots of my music files sound like junk. It's weird how these do present a lot of live music. It's as if the sound is pushed further back at times and more distant. Just the way it's recorded I guess, but I'll switch tracks and it's totally different. Imaging is very good and I bet these would be perfect for gaming if I had to use a closed headphone.
 
I said these were not all that fun to listen to. It varies between songs. Some songs sound completely lifeless and others very, very good. Some of the tracks that bore me to death I should check on the KRK KNS-6400 and see how different they sound. Right now all these tracks sound similar to how they do on some of my other neutral headphones. The soundstage is the biggest difference.
 
I'm having problems with the comfort. I had to bend them a bit to get them to play well with my head. They're so dang uncomfortable, but now it's a little better. It feels like they're constantly pressing on my ears. Never had that issues with the DT-770 Pro 80.
 
So I guess for these you need some extremely well recorded music to hear them at their best. Some headphones make everything sound good (like the HD-600), but definitely not these.
 
Now I'm craving the HD-600 and K702 again...I need to just stop! Both had their issues though.
Quote:

i cannot believe you scored those for 117 bucks!
i thought i was lucky when i scored my 32 ohm 770s for 140.
 
your description reminds me a lot of the 32ohm.  just perhaps more highs and less lows on your 600 ohm.
and yes they are detail monsters.
 
much more balanced then the pro 80s though.
but for me the pro 80s still have a home on my head.  just not all the time.  only when i feel like rattling my brain a bit (usually drunk).
 
enjoy you lucky dog!
 

 

 

[Rawrbington]

yeah they(my 32 ohm premiums) are the most revealing cans i've heard.
so much clipping on recording equipment it blows my minds.
 
but i do love the way they reveal almost every breath and smack of the lips it seems
female vocals and falsetto male vocals are incredible on them
 

 

[Chris J]

 
Quote:

could Zombie_X or someone with a greater understanding of damping and voltage/sensitivity/impedance explain why my 32 ohm 770 premiums require a that i turn the nob on my amp up so much farther than i do on my 80 ohm 770s?
 
is it a lack of sensitivity or an impedance missmatch or some sort of damping factor?
and how does that work exactly?

Assuming the efficiency of the 32 ohm hp is the same as the 80 ohm 'phones  (i.e. same volume for the same amount of POWER)
 
If you were using a headphone amplifier with a very low output impedance,  say one or two ohms, then for a given setting of your volume control the 32 ohm headphones should be louder then the 80 ohm headphones.
This is because the 32 ohm headphones should need less voltage and more current than the 80 ohm headphones.
The setting of your volume control is proportional to how much voltage is coming out of your headphone amp:   lower volume control setting, less voltage, higher volume control, more voltage.
HOWEVER, if your headphone amplifier has a very high output impedance, say 50 -100 ohms then the 80 ohm headphones may be louder then the 32 ohm headphones because so much power is being lost by the headphone amps output impedance. It is not unusual for receivers to have very high output impedance headphone jacks.
 
Yes, it's complex and confusing.........

 

[Chris J]

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[Armaegis]

Quote:

 

I think what you are trying to say is:
 Y axis is Voltage
X axis is Power
hence B must be zero ( no voltage means no power, no power means no voltage)
Higher impedance would mean a higher ( or steeper) slope.
Assuming efficiency is the same, the lower impedance headphone will be louder than a high impedance 'phone at any voltage.
the higher impedance 'phones will always require more voltage.
 

No, I meant it the way I said it. Power is a function of voltage and impedance, volume is a function of power of sensitivity. Sensitivity is a function of the headphone design and for the purposes of this comparison not related to impedance. I did say to ignore the numbers on the graph, I just wanted the lines for illustrative purposes. Y axis is volume, X axis is power (exponential scale techncially), we stick the vertical axis at x=1mw which is where we have our defined sensitivity "b". Higher impedance gives a lower slope, so volume increases more slowly as you increase power (as you increase voltage). However, those higher impedance headphones might actually have a higher sensitivity, so start off with a higher b. At some point they will cross and the lower sensitivity headphone will be louder.
 
edit: if you graph it with voltage as the x axis and volume as Y, then the lines will run parallel, but this is meaningless as it does not take the differing sensitivities into account.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

No, I meant it the way I said it. Power is a function of voltage and impedance, volume is a function of power of sensitivity. Sensitivity is a function of the headphone design and for the purposes of this comparison not related to impedance. I did say to ignore the numbers on the graph, I just wanted the lines for illustrative purposes. Y axis is volume, X axis is power (exponential scale techncially), we stick the vertical axis at x=1mw which is where we have our defined sensitivity "b". Higher impedance gives a lower slope, so volume increases more slowly as you increase power (as you increase voltage). However, those higher impedance headphones might actually have a higher sensitivity, so start off with a higher b. At some point they will cross and the lower sensitivity headphone will be louder.
 
edit: if you graph it with voltage as the x axis and volume as Y, then the lines will run parallel, but this is meaningless as it does not take the differing sensitivities into account.

When you say sensitivity I assume you are referring to this type of Spec:    96 dB @ 0.774 Volts?
If so, impedance is related to sensitivity and cannot be ignored.
In addition, a higher impedance 'phone will always need more voltage than a low impedance 'phone, assuming efficiency is the same.
I doubt that a lower impedance DT770 will have substantially different efficiency than a higher impedance DT770. Different sensitivity, but not a different efficiency.
The lines will never cross.
 

 

[Armaegis]

I think we're saying somewhat the same thing, but making different assumptions or crossing our wires somewhere.
 
Assuming 96db @ 0.774 V (1V? something with a rms in there, whatever) is the same for all three impedance models, that gives us sensitivity @1mW:
32 ohm ... 81.05 db
250 ohm ... 89.98 db
600 ohm ... 93.78 db
 
Blah, way too tired to write anymore.
 

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

I think we're saying somewhat the same thing, but making different assumptions or crossing our wires somewhere.
 
Assuming 96db @ 0.774 V (1V? something with a rms in there, whatever) is the same for all three impedance models, that gives us sensitivity @1mW:
32 ohm ... 81.05 db
250 ohm ... 89.98 db
600 ohm ... 93.78 db
 
Blah, way too tired to write anymore.
 

Yes , I think we are driving at the same point.
I had made the assumption that efficiency is approximately the same for the 32, 250 and 600 ohm 'phones................thrilling mathematical proof to follow. For geeks only.   LOL
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Wow, this DT-770 600 I have sounds very similar to my Q701

Just not as warm obviously.
I listen to the Q701 and think a song sounds extremely good, but when I switch to the DT-770 it sounds just as good and not much different.
At one point I did feel that the DT-770 had more forward sounding female vocals, but not really after checking. I did get the impression they were a tiny bit more clear on the DT-770. Not sure why.
 
The biggest difference is in the soundstage and how airy the sound is. The DT-770 seems to have the smoother treble. The Q701 seems to present the treble more accurate to how the recording is. It's treble doesn't bother me unless it's bad in the recording itself. I bet the DT-880's treble is similar to that of the Q701.
 
I think the biggest difference will be in comparing really poorly mastered FLAC files. The Q701 seems a little bit more forgiving of bad recordings.
 
What's funny is that this Q701 seems to have more bass than the DT-770 600 I have!! I was playing Portal 2 last night and there is this very low bass rumble in one level and it sounded very recessed on the DT-770. Like a night and day difference between the two. Pretty surprising.
 
Despite the DT-770 being closed the soundstage is still quite large.
 
I keep trying to come up with reasons to get rid of this DT-770 600 since the comfort is so poor for me, but I just can't do it. It's biggest negative is that it's just so extremely revealing of how bad some of my music is

None of those songs sounds really horrible on the Q701. Bad, but not as bad as how they are on the DT-770.
 
BTW I love the DT-770 600 for Pearl Jam. Pretty impressive and crystal clear!
 
 
 

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

What's funny is that this Q701 seems to have more bass than the DT-770 600 I have!! I was playing Portal 2 last night and there is this very low bass rumble in one level and it sounded very recessed on the DT-770. Like a night and day difference between the two. Pretty surprising.
 

 
That is to be expected.  Even the K701 had very detailed and very well extended bass.  Q701 have a pretty big bass boost compared to K701,  they actually can produce similar amounts of bass as HD650's now, and more than DT880.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
That is to be expected.  Even the K701 had very detailed and very well extended bass.  Q701 have a pretty big bass boost compared to K701,  they actually can produce similar amounts of bass as HD650's now, and more than DT880.

I'm not noticing any huge difference between the K702 and Q701. Q701 seems a little warmer. BTW my DT-770 600 is the lighter bass version though, so this is no big surprise. Based on Headroom's graphs, the sub-bass is pretty weak.
 
I like this Q701 a LOT more than my old K702. Wonder why? The usual complaints I had about the K702 are gone, but it could be that I'm using a different source. Who knows. All that matters is that it sounds good to me so far.
 
If I keep this q701 for over a month I may sell my K501 and be the third person on Head-Fi to actually prefer the Q701 over their favorite K501