Grado Modders Go Ypsilon (Elleven Acoustica drivers and builds thread)

[cathee]

Received today, installed in my HP1000 and sounding very good.

Very curious to hear more about this. Could you share some pictures/impressions? I'm looking to do a similar renaissance project..

 

[kmonte]

I was lucky that when I inquired about replacement drivers for my HP1000 headphones, Ellleven Acoustica was introducing the P1. Here's what Chris had to say:
"
I personally own a pair of HP1000, I suggest the Epsilon R1 (actually a
variation of it, called Epsilon P1 made specifically for the HP1000, not
shown in our web-store), but, Joseph Grado used at least four different
drivers variations and you need to send me the dimensions of the drivers
hole (diameters, stop depth, see attachment) of the aluminum cup so I
can sent you the one that fits right.

The Epsilon P1 is made/voiced just like the R1, (resolving/detailed but never fatigued with good bass impact) but looks like our Ypsilon S series drivers.
The earpads used makes quite a difference in perceived sound, I suggest to try both the stock HP1000 and the Grado L-Cushions (RS1, PS500 etc.) and listen whats better suit your taste, you can also try the L-Cushions backwards, this is with their flat side on your ears
"

I don't have my good camera, so pics aren't that good. Also the help pages for putting pics in messages is down, so here goes:

The drivers arrived in a small padded envelope, undamaged.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-NsNGHwG/A
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-dQrxLJH/A

Cute little box that arrived unscathed.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-vpLSZpL/A

Drivers are in clear, sealed "bags" with squares of foam protecting them top and bottom.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-t4xBTPf/A

Pics of the drivers.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-jJbrzKQ/A
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-KSB3cVc/A
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-46Xk879/A

Not fair to comment on sound until broken in, which will be a few weeks for me. I use an ifi micro and MEE Pinnacle 1 at home and a Fiio X3 g2 and Zero Audio Doppio at work. I prefer my older Dynaudio speakers, but I use headphones more.

 

[fleasbaby]

I was lucky that when I inquired about replacement drivers for my HP1000 headphones, Ellleven Acoustica was introducing the P1. Here's what Chris had to say:
"
I personally own a pair of HP1000, I suggest the Epsilon R1 (actually a
variation of it, called Epsilon P1 made specifically for the HP1000, not
shown in our web-store), but, Joseph Grado used at least four different
drivers variations and you need to send me the dimensions of the drivers
hole (diameters, stop depth, see attachment) of the aluminum cup so I
can sent you the one that fits right.

The Epsilon P1 is made/voiced just like the R1, (resolving/detailed but never fatigued with good bass impact) but looks like our Ypsilon S series drivers.
The earpads used makes quite a difference in perceived sound, I suggest to try both the stock HP1000 and the Grado L-Cushions (RS1, PS500 etc.) and listen whats better suit your taste, you can also try the L-Cushions backwards, this is with their flat side on your ears
"

I don't have my good camera, so pics aren't that good. Also the help pages for putting pics in messages is down, so here goes:

The drivers arrived in a small padded envelope, undamaged.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-NsNGHwG/A
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-dQrxLJH/A

Cute little box that arrived unscathed.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-vpLSZpL/A

Drivers are in clear, sealed "bags" with squares of foam protecting them top and bottom.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-t4xBTPf/A

Pics of the drivers.
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-jJbrzKQ/A
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-KSB3cVc/A
https://kjunom.smugmug.com/Temp/Pictures/Images-from-folder-Pictures/i-46Xk879/A

Not fair to comment on sound until broken in, which will be a few weeks for me. I use an ifi micro and MEE Pinnacle 1 at home and a Fiio X3 g2 and Zero Audio Doppio at work. I prefer my older Dynaudio speakers, but I use headphones more.

Do my eyes deceive me, or has Chris managed to find "Blackstar" drivers? Under the dome in the center of the diaphragm, is there a black piece of plastic with radiating lines from the center? That would be really odd, as the old Blackstars were exposed, not under a diaphragm, and the rear of the driver had a hole through its middle. This is second hand knowledge on my part though, so I can't say for sure....@devouringone3

 

[sling5s]

Epsilon P1 Initial Impressions: Turbulent Rosewood cups, headband & cable, Grado gimbal and rod.
Source and Amp: Hugo 2 with microZotl 2S)

I love the Grado RS2e (especially when I'm listening to Hendrix, Pink Floyd or even Foo Fighters) but sometimes I don’t always want that upper mid and lower treble spike. At the same time, while the RS2e has transparent clarity, I feel sometimes I’m missing some details.
This is where the Epsilon P1 comes in. This is the most neutral custom Grado driver I have heard. Yes, more than the Epsilon R1. Chris is right when he says that it’s voiced similar to the R1 but has fuller mids and is less fatiguing.
It’s very evident the P1 does not have the upper mid and lower treble spike/emphasis. It’s also very evident that there is more bass presence than the R1, not a lot mind you, but enough to give it more bottom presence and just enough to give the mids more fullness. From memory, I remember while I loved the R1, I felt sometimes the mids could get thin sounding and treble a little sibilant and splashy sometimes. But the P1 fixes all this, the mids and treble are just right.
As for detail, it’s not Focal Utopia or HD800, but it has enough where I don’t feel like I’m missing out (like I do on the RS2e).
Lastly, because of it’s neutrality, the TTVJ Deluxe Flats really work well with the P1. While I preferred the Flats most, I tried the Earzonk L-Cush and Grado L-Cush but preferred the Earzonk L-Cush over the Grado L-Cush.

Added Impressions:
P1 being tuned to be used with Flats, with Flats the mids are very forward. More so than RS2e or any Grado (of course with L-Cush), but because it's also very neutral, you get very forward mids without the upper mid and lower treble spike.
For example, the vocals and guitars not only sound more forward, but sound more full. On the RS2e, you only get the forwardness in the upper mid and lower treble but the rest of the mids are slightly recessed in comparison. So the P1 has the vocals and guitar that is even more upfront than RS2e (with L-Cush) but it doesn't have the bite and edge the RS2e (very much like the ath-ad2000, minus soundstage). Sometimes this is preferable because the mids sounds full and even, but other times, you want the bite and edge that the Grado or RS2e has that is missing in the P1. Having said that, the RS2e with Flats (and not L-Cush) would be equally forward but/plus the added upper mid and lower treble, but the Flats with RS2e (or any e series Grado) does not really work because the mid bass gets bloated and upper mid and lower treble gets shouty and the treble too recessed.

So if you love Grado mids but don’t always want the upper mid and lower treble spike, this is a really nice complement for those who have the RS2e or GH1 and want more neutrality and detail without going up the Grado GS or PS (Grado G-Cush models). I say this because sometimes I want more neutrality and detail but just don't like Grado G-Cush headphones (like GS & PS). Yes, you get more soundstage and details, but to my ears, their G-Cush headphones like the GS and PS just don't have that forward engaging sound that I look for in headphones.

Lastly, if you always wanted to try or own the HP1000 (and it's Joe Grado sound), but can't, this is good alternative.

Final Note:
I don’t know how Chris did it but the treble sounds airy and extended equally with Flats and Earzonk L-Cush, rather than dark or subdued with Flats and trebly with Earzonk L-Cush.

Many thanks to Chris for his work.

 

[Desi]

Here's what Chris had to say:
"
I personally own a pair of HP1000, I suggest the Epsilon R1 (actually a
variation of it, called Epsilon P1 made specifically for the HP1000, not
shown in our web-store), but, Joseph Grado used at least four different
drivers variations and you need to send me the dimensions of the drivers
hole (diameters, stop depth, see attachment) of the aluminum cup so I
can sent you the one that fits right.

I know that Joe was always use the same Primo DH40 driver on his HP1000 headphones and NOT 4 different ones...
But since Chris has an HP1000 headset i would like to see a comparison graph of his P1 driver and the original "blackstar" at the same HP1000 body and flatpads !

 

[Konstantin690]

Epsilon P1 Initial Impressions: Turbulent Rosewood cups, headband & cable, Grado gimbal and rod.
Source and Amp: Hugo 2 with microZotl 2S)

I love the Grado RS2e (especially when I'm listening to Hendrix, Pink Floyd or even Foo Fighters) but sometimes I don’t always want that upper mid and lower treble spike. At the same time, while the RS2e has transparent clarity, I feel sometimes I’m missing some details.
This is where the Epsilon P1 comes in. This is the most neutral custom Grado driver I have heard. Yes, more than the Epsilon R1. Chris is right when he says that it’s voiced similar to the R1 but has fuller mids and is less fatiguing.
It’s very evident the P1 does not have the upper mid and lower treble spike/emphasis. It’s also very evident that there is more bass presence than the R1, not a lot mind you, but enough to give it more bottom presence and just enough to give the mids more fullness. From memory, I remember while I loved the R1, I felt sometimes the mids could get thin sounding and treble a little sibilant and splashy sometimes. But the P1 fixes all this, the mids and treble are just right.
As for detail, it’s not Focal Utopia or HD800, but it has enough where I don’t feel like I’m missing out (like I do on the RS2e).
Lastly, because of it’s neutrality, the TTVJ Deluxe Flats really work well with the P1. While I preferred the Flats most, I tried the Earzonk L-Cush and Grado L-Cush but preferred the Earzonk L-Cush over the Grado L-Cush.

Added Impressions:
P1 being tuned to be used with Flats, with Flats the mids are very forward. More so than RS2e or any Grado (of course with L-Cush), but because it's also very neutral, you get very forward mids without the upper mid and lower treble spike.
For example, the vocals and guitars not only sound more forward, but sound more full. On the RS2e, you only get the forwardness in the upper mid and lower treble but the rest of the mids are slightly recessed in comparison. So the P1 has the vocals and guitar that is even more upfront than RS2e (with L-Cush) but it doesn't have the bite and edge the RS2e (very much like the ath-ad2000, minus soundstage). Sometimes this is preferable because the mids sounds full and even, but other times, you want the bite and edge that the Grado or RS2e has that is missing in the P1. Having said that, the RS2e with Flats (and not L-Cush) would be equally forward but/plus the added upper mid and lower treble, but the Flats with RS2e (or any e series Grado) does not really work because the mid bass gets bloated and upper mid and lower treble gets shouty and the treble too recessed.

So if you love Grado mids but don’t always want the upper mid and lower treble spike, this is a really nice complement for those who have the RS2e or GH1 and want more neutrality and detail without going up the Grado GS or PS (Grado G-Cush models). I say this because sometimes I want more neutrality and detail but just don't like Grado G-Cush headphones (like GS & PS). Yes, you get more soundstage and details, but to my ears, their G-Cush headphones like the GS and PS just don't have that forward engaging sound that I look for in headphones.

Lastly, if you always wanted to try or own the HP1000 (and it's Joe Grado sound), but can't, this is good alternative.

Final Note:
I don’t know how Chris did it but the treble sounds airy and extended equally with Flats and Earzonk L-Cush, rather than dark or subdued with Flats and trebly with Earzonk L-Cush.

Many thanks to Chris for his work.

I was about to use the R1 I already have for my future HP1000 clone build, now I have to try these, (my wallet hates you, thank you very much. )

 

[sling5s]

I was about to use the R1 I already have for my future HP1000 clone build, now I have to try these, (my wallet hates you, thank you very much. )

Guilty.
You are going to better appreciate the P1 with fuller and more balanced mids. While the R1 has slightly more treble detail, I feel the P1 (having more forward mids) has more apparent mids detail.

To me the ath-ad2000 had the best mids for open headphones and dt48a for closed...to me they are better than grado rs1/rs2e because grados don't really have balanced mids (with its spiked upper mids). But the P1 has dethroned the ath-ad2000/dt48a for best mids. Its has such a sweet and wet tone.

 

[odessamarin]

If anybody have an opportunity to compare P1 and R1 to original HP1000 sound.
Which one is closer to HP1000 signature?
Thank you

 

[sling5s]

If anybody have an opportunity to compare P1 and R1 to original HP1000 sound.
Which one is closer to HP1000 signature?
Thank you

I have heard both P1 and R1 but never heard HP1000 but what is relevant is that P1 is more neutral than R1 and therefore I suspect closer to HP1000 sound. Furthermore, the P1 is tuned for Flat pads while the R1 for bowl pads so again, the P1 is going sound more like the HP1000, since the HP1000 uses Flat pads.

 

[fleasbaby]

This thread has been dormant quite a while now. I recently finished a build for someone using the G1 driver, and am impressed so far. The user wanted removable cables using mini-xlr connectors, and two options for headband tension: standard and gentler, so I obliged. Ted at Headphonelounge made it for me and I installed it. Gimbals are by Shipibo, headband is Turbulent Labs. Some pics:

 

[wormsdriver]

This thread has been dormant quite a while now. I recently finished a build for someone using the G1 driver, and am impressed so far. The user wanted removable cables using mini-xlr connectors, and two options for headband tension: standard and gentler, so I obliged. Ted at Headphonelounge made it for me and I installed it. Gimbals are by Shipibo, headband is Turbulent Labs. Some pics:

Very nice build! I outfitted my classic Rs1 with hd800 connectors. I am now considering mini xlrs for a future Grado but was concerned because they seem rather big. Did you have any issues with these connectors? If you still have these cans, can you take a closer picture looking inside the cup through the grill?

 

[ChijiroKuro]

Greetings to all people...

@fleasbaby . Your last built is fantastic, cups, headband, cable... Can you tell us something more regarding the mini xlr plug? Please. I tried to use it with some Grado cups but is very big and I had problems with driver´s perimeter. Like @wormsdriver , I use hd800 plugs.

Cheers!!

 

[fleasbaby]

@wormsdriver @ChijiroKuro

I don't have pics. Will try and take some before I box them up. Basically, the barrel space between the inside edge of the pad and the wider outside face needs to be wide enough to accommodate the plug. If it isn't, no dice. The dimensions I use for my cups can handle it, but its close.

Also, you can't really use the nut to hold the socket in place. This means you need to drill the holes really snug, and then apply two drops of CA glue, one on either side of the plug, inside the cup, to secure them. Not ideal for reversal/replacement, but once you see the size of the hole you have to drill anyway, you realize you aren't going to be using another connector...LOL...its pretty big. You're stuck with mini-xlr for keeps.

 

[DavidA]

@wormsdriver @ChijiroKuro

I don't have pics. Will try and take some before I box them up. Basically, the barrel space between the inside edge of the pad and the wider outside face needs to be wide enough to accommodate the plug. If it isn't, no dice. The dimensions I use for my cups can handle it, but its close.

Also, you can't really use the nut to hold the socket in place. This means you need to drill the holes really snug, and then apply two drops of CA glue, one on either side of the plug, inside the cup, to secure them. Not ideal for reversal/replacement, but once you see the size of the hole you have to drill anyway, you realize you aren't going to be using another connector...LOL...its pretty big. You're stuck with mini-xlr for keeps.

To add a little to this, I wouldn't recommend using a drill to make the existing holes larger since there is a very good chance you will crack the wood. Use a Dremel and work the existing hole larger until you can fit the mini-XLR jack. This is one reason I went with SMC jacks but I know many don't like them since they have a hard time screwing them on but I've found that they are one of the most secure and long lasting connections if you are limited on space and if space is not an issue I'd use mini-XLR since the connection is secure and the jacks hold up pretty well, better than any 2.5 or 3.5mm jacks that I've installed over the years.

 

[fleasbaby]

To add a little to this, I wouldn't recommend using a drill to make the existing holes larger since there is a very good chance you will crack the wood. Use a Dremel and work the existing hole larger until you can fit the mini-XLR jack. This is one reason I went with SMC jacks but I know many don't like them since they have a hard time screwing them on but I've found that they are one of the most secure and long lasting connections if you are limited on space and if space is not an issue I'd use mini-XLR since the connection is secure and the jacks hold up pretty well, better than any 2.5 or 3.5mm jacks that I've installed over the years.

Good point! I did forget to mention, the holes are so large that I drilled pilot holes, and then used a counterbore bit to finish them. Using a drill-bit that size would have massacred the cups.