[The Larch]

Quote:

 
dftk is an administrator (i.e., ttbomk, has financial interests) at a for-profit site. So brand/$$/politics -- i.e, business as usual? 'What politics', you ask? Well, check out the domain name for starters anythingbutipod.com. Now I ain't no Apple lover, but if there is one brand of DAP that scores WRT reliability and customer support, it's the folks in Cuppertino. (I'm thinking about starting a site ... anything-but-Teclast.com  -- and I've got three good non-political reasons)!! Alas, I digress ...

 
 
 

 
I think I will point out the obvious here; alphaman is Steve Jobs. He is clearly here to disrepute the Teclast brand. Those Slfo sales must have been cutting way deep into touch sales. As to why he is so adamantly defending Grado, I sense a Apple - Grado merger. I see why Grado has been adding i to all there product names lately.
 
"Now I ain't no Apple lover"......Nice try STEVE......You busted.

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

I think I will point out the obvious here; alphaman is Steve Jobs. He is clearly here to disrepute the Teclast brand. Those Slfo sales must have been cutting way deep into touch sales. As to why he is so adamantly defending Grado, I sense a Apple - Grado merger. I see why Grado has been adding i to all there product names lately.
 
"Now I ain't no Apple lover"......Nice try STEVE......You busted.

Folks ... I want to laugh but it seems like I have to DIY my own jokes ...
No, not Steve, Joe or John (Grado), but more likely one of their b*tches, pee-ons, or Omegas. That sounds much more logical and incredulous ... right?
Speaking of logic, and somewhat related to the issue The Larch just raised, it seems there is formidable problem ...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=critical-mass
 
 
 
Quote:

"There are some sneaky biases at work, too. Ever notice how many apps on the iTunes Store seem to score mostly either one- or five-star reviews? How could so many apps be so polarizing?
They’re not—it’s just that online reviewers are a self-selecting bunch. You’re more likely to review something if you’re fired up about it, one way or another; the vast, quietly contented multitudes generally don’t bother.
(For a while, Apple tried to address this problem by prompting customers to rate an app at the moment they deleted it. App developers cried foul. “You’re making our reviews skew negative,” they said, “by asking this question at the moment people are deleting our apps! If they liked it, they wouldn’t be deleting it!”)"

 

 
 

 

 

[goodvibes]

If Grado ever offers iphone controls, I may start to worry.

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

"The GR10 sound exactly like the e-Q5 [...]"
Well, I should be fair and try to list off some significant non-political, non-financially-motivated reasons why two dissimilar IEMs may sound the same. 
 
Health/physiological:
Low blood sugar
Head cold, flu, or being ill
Emotional stress (effect on psychoacoustics)
Change in the weather (pressure/barometric)
 
Logical fallacy biases / psychology:
Cognitive dissonance
Selection bias (including time bias)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
 
Other:
Critically listening (for personal, purchase-related eval. or public review) in a noisy environment (even with IEMs!).
Critically listening (for personal, purchase-related eval. or public review) in a distracting environment, and or while multi-tasking.
 
Rare (v. unlikely):
Tip /ear-canal combo. One can often change the tip to importantly affect an IEM's sonics. On this premise, you may coincidentally run into two diff IEMs which both use two diff tips, but they sound similar. Not impossible, just highly improbable.
 
Folks, I'm totally serious in this message as I've experienced some/all these phenomena at one time or another: E.g., after a tiring exercise run with my IEM and DAP, acoustics tend to have "monotone". 
 
All that said, an experienced reviewer should be aware of most of the above, and take proper steps to mitigate these effects or pre-conditions.
 

Another biggie to add to this list as I just noticed that it happened to moi ... after about 5min of relatively loud (slightly uncomfortable-level) listening (program music: EDM/house music), the "acoustic window" started monotone on me. I swapped IEMs (IE8s <--> SE530 <--> SM3) and it was more difficult to tell them apart. A "tired eardrum"  effect?
Also ( and hardly new, but perhaps bares repeating in the light of this message's discussion), other eardrum acoustic effectors may be airplane or high-altitude listening; accumulation of ear wax/crud.
 
 

 

[Freefallr4545]

 
Quote:

"The GR10 sound exactly like the e-Q5 [...]"
Well, I should be fair and try to list off some significant non-political, non-financially-motivated reasons why two dissimilar IEMs may sound the same. 
 
Health/physiological:
Low blood sugar
Head cold, flu, or being ill
Emotional stress (effect on psychoacoustics)
Change in the weather (pressure/barometric)
 
Logical fallacy biases / psychology:
Cognitive dissonance
Selection bias (including time bias)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
 
Other:
Critically listening (for personal, purchase-related eval. or public review) in a noisy environment (even with IEMs!).
Critically listening (for personal, purchase-related eval. or public review) in a distracting environment, and or while multi-tasking.
 
Rare (v. unlikely):
Tip /ear-canal combo. One can often change the tip to importantly affect an IEM's sonics. On this premise, you may coincidentally run into two diff IEMs which both use two diff tips, but they sound similar. Not impossible, just highly improbable.
 
Folks, I'm totally serious in this message as I've experienced some/all these phenomena at one time or another: E.g., after a tiring exercise run with my IEM and DAP, acoustics tend to have "monotone". 
 
All that said, an experienced reviewer should be aware of most of the above, and take proper steps to mitigate these effects or pre-conditions.
 

Man this is such a true statement (pre-conditions) I just experienced a cold everything sounded terrible. And if I'm analyzing instead of listening, this can cause emotional distress making everything sound stale and "surfacey", But.... about the Ipod thing, while there menus are fantastic, their sound quality is about the worst that is out there
 

 

[Freefallr4545]

But have improved lately

 

[james444]

A plethora of aspects that may or may not be applicable to this case, but let's not forget the readiness of intellectuals to construct complex explanatory models and disregard the obvious.

 
On a more serious note, from your impressions in the SM3 thread and your need for "ultimate pace 'n rhythm" and "excellent PRaT" I'd think that both the GR10 and e-Q5 may possibly be too lightweight for your taste.

 

[planx]

Personally speaking, i just had a very brief listen to the GR10s at a local Hifi store and WOW... all the comments about the clarity and balance were all making sense to me. Even though the listen was an unfortunate short listen, it was quite the listen for me. Really enjoyed the GR10s, even if it was with 2 songs

 

[james444]

^ I agree, clarity and balance are among their main strengths.

 

[planx]

Maybe i will find the time and money to purchase the GR10 for myself... man Headfi really influences you to buy some expensive stuff LOL

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

 
No doubt. To be honest I care less about what driver are used by Grado, but more on their lack of effort on trying to use a less generic housing than the OEM one. Not just GR8 and GR10, but even the $80 iGi is using housing from $25 IEM as well. That goes further than what driver they used and left me with a negative impression on their attitude toward customer. I personally think they should at least make an effort to ask the OEM for a slightly different housing. If others can do that, why not Grado? It is that feeling on Grado's lack of effort that turns me away from Grado IEM. It is not meant to bash Grado in anyway. I do like their big cans and that is why I feel more critical toward their IEM.
 

 
This is nothing surprising. I own 2 Grados and I know a lot of people here worship them, but ultimately my experience is that while all of these companies are gouging the customer hard due to the fairly recent popularity of "portable audiophilia" Grado takes it to new heights consistently. They have such a following that they can sell for $200 a plastic uncomfortable cheaply built headphone and up the line to $1200 for some amateur word working using about $2 worth of hard wood and drivers that are wound in house for about $5. People have a hard time opening their eyes and seeing the reality of this whole situation. So it's no surprise that when they wanted to branch into IEMs they took a similar high margin, high hype, least effort and high reliance on brand recognition approach. 
 
I'm going to hear a lot of crap over what I said because many people don't want to see the truth in it. Yes a company is due some return for R&D and even some for creating and maintaining a brand name but nobody else can get away with doing so less for so much money. I'd like to see anyone else name a company that can do so little and charge so much. Maybe Bose, but at least they spend some time and money redesigning their stuff using those same 50 cent "tweeters". 
 
 

 

[goodvibes]

You're entitled to our opinion and I'm not going to give you crap but a more reasonable perspective. Along with those expensive wood phones you talk about, Grado also offers the SR-60 at $79 which is a very well known value and a half dozen models in between. All are well recieved. Unlike you, I don't see building in house and not in China as a cost cutting negative. I don't understand the price stuff about a company that has always offered better performance at low price points over the years than almost anybody else. Their cheaper cartridges and headphones have always been considered among the best deals on the planet. If the more expensive models don't appeal to you for the price (which happens with any brand), there are more reasonable options available from them. Which in the line you buy or don't is up to you. When they introduced their first MA it was cheaper than the competition. I personally like my Stax LNS and SRM-1 at the about $1k price point but it's personal and the stax aren't portable. Grado isn't the only game in town but they most certainly are a viable one.
 
  There's more metal/less plasic and an equal to better finish on the GR8/10 than an 535/w4/sm3 etc yet it gets picked on for having a non metal cap. We have folks whose anodizing is fading on their Ortofons yet no one has said the painted plus metal finish on the grados is wearing from normal use. Wouldn't stop me from buying an Orto either and I don't think it's a big deal but why is a very well finished and built unit getting picked on over those aspects? To my knowledge not one has cracked, crushed, faded or seperated. I think those other products are also well made and am not saying the Grado is above them as all should hold up and look good over a long period of time with normal care but it's certainly not below or something to be considered a negative. If you think they sound good for the money, buy them. If not, don't but all this other odd nonsense is just that.

 

[goodvibes]

 
Quote:

Personally speaking, i just had a very brief listen to the GR10s at a local Hifi store and WOW... all the comments about the clarity and balance were all making sense to me. Even though the listen was an unfortunate short listen, it was quite the listen for me. Really enjoyed the GR10s, even if it was with 2 songs

Interesting mix of nice IEMs. How would you rank them or is more a mood thing?
 
 

 

[planx]

Quote:

 

Interesting mix of nice IEMs. How would you rank them or is more a mood thing?
 
 

Well... If i were to HONESTLY rank the GR10s from the ridiculously short listen i had, to me i think they are in MY top 5. The GR10s gave me an incredible first impression and almost instantly, they showed me what they are capable of. When i listened to the GR10s, it was amped to a Fiio E7 and it sounded very nice with lvl 1 bass boost. Level 3 was too much because the clarity seemed to be disappearing so i decided to listen to level 1 only. Personally i LOVE my etymotic HF5s and it took a long time to finally realize what the HF5s were capable of, but with the GR10s i instantly knew these are the real deal for me. I admit i like deeper inserting IEMs but i did manage to get a good seal with the GR10. Lack of accessories are not a problem for me because all i care about is the essence of an IEM. Yes people may say the GR10s are at a relatively high price, but mark my word, once you fully understand what the GR10s are capable of, price wouldn't really matter. Right this instant, i wish i had the GR10 without a doubt. Hope to purchase the GR10s asap...
 

 

[goodvibes]

Sorry, I meant the ones that you already own. Thanks for the info but I wasn't going to ask you for something so definitive with that short of a listen. If you're in the market, I think somebody in Canada had them on sale which doesn't happen in the US. Look in the deals thread. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/559997/deal-alert-grado-gr-10-369-00-cad  I find the GR10 separates more from some others as the source becomes more informative. I suspect some of the diversity of opinion is source related. They can sound from meh for the price to astonishing depending on input as you would expect a revealing transducer to. It's why I've referred to them as chameleons. Many are caught up in tonal sigs which the Grado has very little of. To be honest, I don't think most DAPs are worthy of $400 IEMs so I have no problem with folks buying VG cheaper/similar phones but if we're talking absolutes, that extra layer of refinement, air and resolution has never come cheap. It's hard to argue with things like PFEs, E-q5, B2, Gr07, HF-5's value and they probably represent a sweet spot but at the same time, it's no reason to not appreciate something more expensive if you can benefit. With flac and the same firmware relative to device, my fuze V1 sound a bit gruff and fuze v2 a bit relaxed with more low level res but with less snap. My Ipod touch 3 just sings on them with wav files. I could have 3 different impressions of them with these 3 sources that are all regarded as VG and and even more if rockbox(which I think lacks a bit of air or texture, more different than better unless you need EQ) or other different firmware configs were thrown in. It's why I can't argue with what others hear as I believe every impression is sincere. I, personally, can just get further into the music than on some others when the info is there.