[obobskivich]

Come to think of it, Obobskivitch did suggest we ask John Grado and ToddTVJ for our HF-3, right? Something fairly limited and not public, looking (and drivers similarly tuned) like a PS-1; as long as cups are entirely made out with the Grado metal alloy (could be chromed, could be golden), no glue, black anodized metal gimbals, leather headband, and priced higher than a HF-2, but lower than a a PS-1000... it could be made at the end of 2013 in celebration of Grado's 60th anniversary, and five years later remade into a RS-1000 the same way the HF-2 inspired the PS-500.

I love that idea, though I'm not optimistic that the demand on Head-Fi is presently high enough to make that project become a reality. We would need to get back together all of the Grado die-hard that aren't here anymore... and revive a bit the interest for high-end Grado, or get at least 500 people to subscribe to an interest check / ground buy:

"
HF-3 commitment list:
-- devouringone3

HF-3 'not sure' list:
--
"

Oh I didn't even mean HF-3, I was just thinking based on the PS-1 being a custom OEM order of 250 units, couldn't we organize a similar buy?

And how much was the HF-2? Same as the PS-500? I think $1000+ is a little nutty for any can, but that's me.

Anyways, I'd be interested depending on what we created (again, my thinking was why not come up with our own design, and have it OEMd, instead of just asking them to design us a headphone).

 

[pcf]

Quote:

Quick question for the Grado buffs: has the SR325 had the most variations over the years? Off the top of my head I can think of:
 
Black metallic housing, pink drivers
Black metallic housing, HP1000 drivers
Black metallic housing, normal drivers (??)
Silver metallic housing, normal drivers
Gold metallic housing, normal drivers
Silver brushed housing, normal drivers
Silver chrome housing, normal drivers
Silver powder finish, normal drivers
 
Sure I'm missing a few, maybe some prototypes.
 
Right now I'm listening to the black metallic / pink drivers version, and it sounds better to my ears than its more recent variants. Smoother and dare I say---somewhat obtusely---more musical?

You included everything there.
The pink drivers were not pink to start off with. I have two pairs of black 325 with John Grado drivers, One of them has pink drivers and the other pair, which was NOS, has black cheese cloth. I kept the pink pair and sent the other pair to Rhydon for a full Magnum mod (all black). 
I never really like the black 325 with HP1000 drivers. They sound a bit dull to me and are really heavy. 
I think 325 went downhill from that point onwards and the worst being the gold ones. They all make your ears bleed with the bowl pads. The 325is are more refined but still too bright for most people. 
All modern day Grados have some problems regarding the earpads. Almost anything that come with bowls are bright and forward (that includes RS1i and PS1) ; whereas the the ones that use Jumbos can have recessd mids and boomy bass- like GS1000. These short comings might be too much for some but not the others.
I can't quite work out what the deal is with PS1000. Every pair I have heard sounded different. I like the pair I have now. I don't hear the thin treble some people hear but the bass is often too soft for my liking -again that's different from a lot of people's impressions.

 

[devouringone3]

Quote:

I also like the look of older Grados quite a bit! The flat cups are a lot more stylish, IMO.

 
Yes, and from my experience the expansion and weight distribution and geometry are more practical factors --a grip to take off your headphones, change your pads; I used to pull my hair all the time when trying to remove my SR100 grabbing it by the gimbals, before I found a special technique of pulling on the headband just above the rodblocks-- than something that impacts the sound positively. The gains in sound quality from changing the shape/size/material of the cups IMO are so minor that it has got to be hard to tell if it's a positive or a negative change; though aesthetically it's always very pleasing.
 
I remember the October 1992 Stereophile issue (scroll through the later photos to read) talked positively about the SR200-0 (-0, HP-1000 drivers) for the first 4/5 of the review and ended by saying that it had more "mid range punch" than the "slightly more refined" HP2... the reviewer seemed to have appreciated more the SR200-0 because he felt like it was priced more reasonably (keep in mind that 495 to 595$ for the HP2 and HP1 at the time was probably most expensive dynamic headphone to date). The SR200 had that primitive looking design ABS plastic "flat" cylindrical cups and was being compared to the complex proportions geometry, special aluminum alloy machined HP 1000 cups (very similar shape to that of the RS-1 but not as long and sticking out). Myself I always felt like they sounded "very much" the same also (they use the "same model" drivers; though they might differ very slightly by their matching, OEM version changes, burning/doping process)... though ultimately the HP 1000 does perform better at higher volumes and sounds noticeably more sensitive and resolving.
 
But yeah, to me the key to understanding the different grades/quality of Grado sound (their multiple product series and individual models) and to the "i" upgrade is all about the drivers (again, from what I experienced). Grado is Italian for "Degree", just like the grade they have for each of their drivers.
 
I can't speak of modding/damping though, but I'm sure they do improve things slightly and tune the sound to better suit your taste, in a similar way your choice of pads to use also does.
 
 
Quote:

You can add me to the commitment list.

 
Sure! though that "list" was more to exemplify my point
 
 
Quote:

 
Also, I really agree with that. Ownership of such things has a certain depth to it that plays out in the ongoing process of careful usage.
 
By the way, nice SR100. I'm looking for one with red lettering myself.

 
Oh yeah, well, it arrived to me with the right side falling off, I failed twice at repairing it with hot glue and then super glue, so I bought super strong "transparent" epoxy, but I did the mistake of putting too much --it was my first time working with this and I was getting impatient and didn't think of making a test on a dummy, and I wanted to listen to my new headphones :/--, so it left behind a "not so transparent" dripping formation of tacky white glue near the headband ... well at least it's solid, my own fault, on a headphone with a mistake, that I'm not going to sell to anybody. So I'm the one stuck with my own error.
 
 
Quote:

The red SR100 is a beautiful odd ball. If I ever get a chance and can afford it I'd grab one, too.

 
They all come with HP-1000 drivers in them and sounds macroscopically identical to the HP1-2-3: Great! They are sturdier than they look and very portable and stealthier. The red paint also seem more durable than the white and gold paint (or maybe it's just that the owners coincidentally took better care of it, because I've never seen a "non-100% lettering" one). My pair was bought in February 1993 at Audio Advisor for 159U$D, I still have the bill ^^ (from the original owner who sold it on eBay).
 
 
Quote:

The sweat from your hands would do the most damage to the red lettering, more than anything else.

 
True! that thing is alkaline... fortunately for me though I have problematically (as in eczema and other diseases, lol) dry skin
 
 
Quote:

Right now I'm listening to the black metallic / pink drivers version, and it sounds better to my ears than its more recent variants. Smoother and dare I say---somewhat obtusely---more musical?

 
Totally! I compared a white drivers black anodized metal SR325 with my #1789 2005 SR325i and it sounded more holistic, smoother and less "u-shaped" to me... those are similar principles and reasons to why some of those Grado buffs still swear by their vintage RS-1 (smoother frequency response curve, and bassier balance too)
 
 
Quote:

Oh I didn't even mean HF-3, I was just thinking based on the PS-1 being a custom OEM order of 250 units, couldn't we organize a similar buy?

And how much was the HF-2? Same as the PS-500? I think $1000+ is a little nutty for any can, but that's me.
Anyways, I'd be interested depending on what we created (again, my thinking was why not come up with our own design, and have it OEMd, instead of just asking them to design us a headphone).

 
But who would be the manufacturer ("OEM")? wouldn't it be easier (and more affordable for everyone) if we'd pick a design Grado has already got the "molds" for?
 
The PS-1 was 1400$ but it crossed the world and changed companies/distributors twice before arriving in the hands of customers shipped from ToddTVJ. Head-Fiers (after the PS-1 stocks got depleted but who already wanted to make them happen again) knew that this had to inflate their final RRP, and that freshly manufactured PS-1 directly sold should have cost less.
 
HF-2 was 525 shipped to US customers by Todd Green, so about 500 dollars (and 100$ less than a PS-500).
 
 
Quote:

You included everything there.
 
The pink drivers were not pink to start off with. I have two pairs of black 325 with John Grado drivers, One of them has pink drivers and the other pair, which was NOS, has black cheese cloth. I kept the pink pair and sent the other pair to Rhydon for a full Magnum mod (all black). 
My vintage RS-1's drivers are turning pink the more I use it... just kidding, but I feel like it's loosing it's white coloration/pigments and becoming more transparent
 
I never really like the black 325 with HP1000 drivers. They sound a bit dull to me and are really heavy. (I love mine, even though I very much agree with your impression ["a bit dull"; but the HP 1000 drivers in general are a bit dull sounding too, and unaccentuated], I feel the same every time I reach for my pair; they still weight quite less than a full HP-1000, and because mine have the "stock arc" headband, they are the looser and the most comfortable on my head)
I think 325 went downhill from that point onwards and the worst being the gold ones. They all make your ears bleed with the bowl pads. The 325is are more refined but still too bright for most people. 
The gold ones you're talking about (called "SR325i" by the way) were intended by John Grado to become the better ones (of the previous SR325, and to stand as the top of the Prestige line) actually, they were the first ones to be "i" upgraded because John felt the first silver SR325 were the weakest link of the series. "i" upgrade was essentially (or supposedly so) a positive change, and not the other way around
 
Gold lettered black anodized metal SR325 are the earliest one, they're superb . They are not the "gold ones" you're talking about.

 
I think I received my upgraded HP2i (!!), I got a mail notice at my door from today 8:20 AM (I was sleeping) and I'm not awaiting any other parcels requiring my signature upon delivery... I will go get that unknown package at 17:00 (about 3 hours from now in Québec) and come here to report right after!

 

[obobskivich]

But who would be the manufacturer ("OEM")? wouldn't it be easier (and more affordable for everyone) if we'd pick a design Grado has already got the "molds" for?

The PS-1 was 1400$ but it crossed the world and changed companies/distributors twice before arriving in the hands of customers shipped from ToddTVJ. Head-Fiers (after the PS-1 stocks got depleted but who already wanted to make them happen again) knew that this had to inflate their final RRP, and that freshly manufactured PS-1 directly sold should have cost less.

HF-2 was 525 shipped to US customers by Todd Green, so about 500 dollars (and 100$ less than a PS-500).

Grado would be the manufacturer - but they would just be OEM'ing it for "Head-Fi Partners Ltd" or something like that, just like they OEM'd for FreeSystems, and just like Ultrasone OEMs stuff for Alienware/Dell and other companies. I'm not even sure how to contact them to ask about this and be taken seriously though.

I would assume though that it should be possible to get them to make us a custom run if we have enough people willing to buy in (who knows what a minimum batch order is, 250 is fairly small in the world of mass production, and Grado is a fairly small independent company, so in theory a custom order could represent even less units, like 50 or something), and worked with them on designing whatever we wanted. It's kind of a nutty idea, I know.

 

[devouringone3]

Quote:

I think I received my upgraded HP2i (!!), I got a mail notice at my door from today 8:20 AM (I was sleeping) and I'm not awaiting any other parcels requiring my signature upon delivery... I will go get that unknown package at 17:00 (about 3 hours from now in Québec) and come here to report right after!

 
Yep, I got them!
 
I just unboxed them, and filmed it so I'll show it to you as soon as the 720p finished uploading.
 
First contact (I'll have pictures to back it up), these are still "wet", he definitely made use of some kind of transparent oil, the metal look smoother, more uniform... some parts have been milled down as residual metal shavings are stuck in the metal grids of the right cup (it'll be easy to remove with blue putty). My guess would be that those changed happened inside the headphones, I haven't looked there yet but I'll show it to you with pictures.
 
The metal as definitely been reworked, it looks slicker, whiter... though it might just be my own exaltation or the strong end of day light. Anyhow I'll compare it with my stock HP-1.
 
The pads are smaller in diameter, puffier/rounder, but have a sharper edge on the bottom (non ear surface), I can already tell that they look different from memory (I don't have stock flats with me anymore, I guess Joe kept them, but I'll order some from TTVJ immediately, for the sake of comparison).
 
Dual HP 1000 Ultra-Wide Bandwidth cable (four conductors per cups) --not taken from a pair of 2 m Ultra-Wide Bandwidth Reference Interconnects--, exact same length as stock, grouped together by heatshrink rings and with a red one on the right side; finished by a X Series Neutrik TRS golden plug. Better done than expected, not twisted at all, nice comfortable length before the "Y split".
 
He kept my headphone box , as you can see in the video.

 (Sorry if I sound hysteric... I kind of am)
 
He must have forgotten (it's okay for me, I have a nice headphone rig carrying case already, that can accept one more headphone); I've seen an upgraded HP1i on eBay lately and it still had its box.
 
Headphone locking screws were very lightly tightened, but only on one side so my guess is that the other side un-tightened itself during transport.
 
(I'll be back with tons of macro shots)

 

[devouringone3]

Quote:

Grado would be the manufacturer - but they would just be OEM'ing it for "Head-Fi Partners Ltd" or something like that, just like they OEM'd for FreeSystems, and just like Ultrasone OEMs stuff for Alienware/Dell and other companies. I'm not even sure how to contact them to ask about this and be taken seriously though.

I would assume though that it should be possible to get them to make us a custom run if we have enough people willing to buy in (who knows what a minimum batch order is, 250 is fairly small in the world of mass production, and Grado is a fairly small independent company, so in theory a custom order could represent even less units, like 50 or something), and worked with them on designing whatever we wanted. It's kind of a nutty idea, I know.

 
Ultrasone OEMed ... Alienware headphones? Wow... *oh yeah it's more obvious when you see them.
 
For me as long as it's written Grado and limited edition on it , Head-Fi doesn't even have to be part of the equation, though we would owe it to Head-Fi in big part; because that's where we got together and had the idea in the first place, and possibly gathered people from.
 
 
 
I've photographed my HP-2i "as came", a bit dirty, cat hairs (thingy, maybe not real animal hairs actually) in the pads (that I'll remove using this)... will proceed to wipe out all the excess of oil (using this), remove those metal shavings (using this) and listen to them with my usual/favorite pair of taped bowls (because that's the one I'm the most used to), on my HPA-1 running on 2 nine volts..

 

[pcf]

Hi devouringone3,
 
Sorry to hear about your box but that has happened before. The blue foam inside the box would disintegrate after a few years. As a result, the bits and pieces would get inside the headphones. Joe believes that the boxes do more harm than good so when he receives the headphones he would keep the boxes (or throw them away) and just send back the upgraded headphones!
I would probably not do that if I were him, and it is bit like his refusing to send back your original drivers. Joe does things his own way and we just need to be aware of that.
Going back to SR325- I was indeed talking about the limited edition gold 325i. If there was any improvement I didn't hear it at all. The black 325 came with either gold or silver letterings. In typical Grado fashion, you wouldn't know what letterings or drivers you're getting until you open the box! Here's my black 325 with silver lettering and John Grado drivers with black cloth:
 

 

 
By the way, some SR100 do not have the HP1000 drivers nor the red letterings. I have both versions.

 

[devouringone3]

Quote:

Hi devouringone3,
 
Sorry to hear about your box but that has happened before. The blue foam inside the box would disintegrate after a few years. As a result, the bits and pieces would get inside the headphones. Joe believes that the boxes do more harm than good so when he receives the headphones he would keep the boxes (or throw them away) and just send back the upgraded headphones!
I would probably not do that if I were him, and it is bit like his refusing to send back your original drivers. Joe does things his own way and we just need to be aware of that.
Going back to SR325- I was indeed talking about the limited edition gold 325i. If there was any improvement I didn't hear it at all. The black 325 came with either gold or silver letterings. In typical Grado fashion, you wouldn't know what letterings or drivers you're getting until you open the box! Here's my black 325 with silver lettering and John Grado drivers with black cloth:
 

 
By the way, some SR100 do not have the HP1000 drivers nor the red letterings. I have both versions.

 
On the picture these SR325 almost look to have gold lettering on them! Some (like mine) have very dim gold tint to them:

 
My white, white drivers, black SR325 (lol):
 
I don't have it anymore, I sold it because I was buying my black SR325"-0"
 
It had a strange blank Y splitter which I liked:

 
 
Red SR100 tend to get all the attention, but white SR100 are even less documented (very few pictures I ever found)

I never saw one with John Grado drivers in flesh.
 
The thing with these HP-1000 blessed SR- is that they've became rarer with the time after people like Larry @headphile.com and others began used them to make sordid mods:
 (not a good example though, no HP-1000 drivers in these)
 
 
People were trying to bring them closer to the level of a HP-1000:

 
Looking at the first picture; if those are really the original SR100 caps, then you're right they did come with John Grado drivers too (judging by the length of the rods, the headband and foam cut outs, the punched plastic grid caps, and the drivers, if they are the original ones). Most SR100-200-300-225-325 had painted black (became silver/unpainted at the "i" upgrade) metal grids, like the nowadays full-wooden Grados, RS-GS-.

 

[Twinster]

Just realized that the headband metal seems to be round rather than flat metal band. How come??
Quote:

 
On the picture these SR325 almost look to have gold lettering on them! Some (like mine) have very dim gold tint to them:
 
 

 
 

 

[pcf]

Quote:

 
 
Red SR100 tend to get all the attention, but white SR100 are even less documented (very few pictures I ever found)

I never saw one with John Grado drivers in flesh.
 
 
Looking at the first picture; if those are really the original SR100 caps, then you're right they did come with John Grado drivers too (judging by the length of the rods, the headband and foam cut outs, and the punched plastic grid caps). Most SR100-200-300-225-325 had painted black (became silver/unpainted at the "i" upgrade) metal grids, like the nowadays full-wooden Grados, RS-GS-.

 
 
They do exist. 

 
 
Here's a picture of the two versions of SR100, The one on the left has the Primo drivers; the one on the right was the "newer" version, produced after John found his own drivers.

 

[dorino]

I've never fully understood what the "pink driver" is, or why the HP1000 driver is everywhere. Would someone care to explain? I'm sure it's happened at least 20 times in 274 pages, but it's 274 pages.

 

[elvergun]

Man, I get Grado envy when I see some of the pictures you guys post in this thread.   Grados are probably the best looking headphones ever made.   There is something special about them.  

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

 
 
They do exist. 

 
 
Here's a picture of the two versions of SR100, The one on the left has the Primo drivers; the one on the right was the "newer" version, produced after John found his own drivers.

 
 
Yeah, there was one on head-fi like two weeks ago (SR100 with white lettering) that sold for like $150 bucks. For reals.
 
A friend of mine was going to buy it, send it to another friend to be measured, and then sell it to me for the same price. But due to a Paypal error it was sold to someone else. : (

 

[obobskivich]

I've never fully understood what the "pink driver" is, or why the HP1000 driver is everywhere. Would someone care to explain? I'm sure it's happened at least 20 times in 274 pages, but it's 274 pages.

So on your Grados, pull the pads off (if they're comfies), or just look at them (if they're bowls/bagels) - it's like "white" in there. "Pinks" look, well, pink. They're an older version of the John Grado driver (first version?). The HP-1000 drivers were put into (and correct me if I'm wrong) the SR-100/200/300 line "back in the day" because that's the drivers they used, and those were common cans to chop up for mods when they were available a few years ago (I know Headphile made a lot of Vixens out of SR-100s for example). I wouldn't say they're "everywhere" - the modern drivers (after the pinks) are probably the most common/mass-produced Grado driver (e.g. like the ones my RS-1i have).

See here (has an image too):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549243/vintage-black-grado-sr325-gold-lettering-review-vs-vintage-sr125-rs1/15

 

[pcf]

Quote:

So on your Grados, pull the pads off (if they're comfies), or just look at them (if they're bowls/bagels) - it's like "white" in there. "Pinks" look, well, pink. They're an older version of the John Grado driver (first version?). The HP-1000 drivers were put into (and correct me if I'm wrong) the SR-100/200/300 line "back in the day" because that's the drivers they used, and those were common cans to chop up for mods when they were available a few years ago (I know Headphile made a lot of Vixens out of SR-100s for example). I wouldn't say they're "everywhere" - the modern drivers (after the pinks) are probably the most common/mass-produced Grado driver (e.g. like the ones my RS-1i have).
See here (has an image too):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549243/vintage-black-grado-sr325-gold-lettering-review-vs-vintage-sr125-rs1/15

Lets start with the HP1000 drivers:
HP1,2 and 3 were the first Grado headphones. The drivers were made by Primo to Grado's specs. These headphones were supposed to be studio monitors and not made for domestic use, Later on they decided to expand the market and produce something more affordable for the general public. That was the start of the Prestige series which included SR100,200 and 300. Plastic and thinner headbands etc were used as a cost cutting measure. The Primo drivers that didn't make the grade for HP1000 would end up in the SRs. When John took over the company the HP1000 drivers were no longer available (neither was Joe!). The new Grado drivers started appearing in those three SRs. Where John found the drivers (or produce his own drivers from the start) is not clear and remains a sensitive debatable subject. These John Grado drivers had either black or white cheese cloth. Overtime they would turn brown or pink. There are vintage Grados that still have non pink drivers, they are usually NOS or less used headphones. Of course the drivers could have been replaced too. The vintage John Grado phones do sound different from the newer one but I don't think it is just down to the colour of the drivers.