[AnakChan]

If this keep continues, utopia thread is going to be locked, just like how Z1R was locked.
Funny thing, it’s always been the same reason and the same person that is involved.

No need to but @up late & @ubs28 better stop -now-.

 

[up late]

fine by me @AnakChan, the discussion had already run its course from my perspective

 

[Energy]

The lesson to be learnt is to take everything with a grain of salt. In the end regardless of speculation, the Utopia is still for a long time coming an adored favorite amongst many audiophiles. Let's enjoy it.

 

[TSAVJason]

Bob Katz, the legendary sound engineer thinks the 430HA is crap. So according to what “facts” is the 430HA good?

I will see if I can find this 430HA somewhere to do some testing.

I can understand people using other peoples preferences but to place that other persons opinion as gospel is perplexing to me. They don’t have your ears. They likely don’t have any of the things you use in your rigs. What makes these other opinions so absolute? What makes their opinion any more valuable than yours?

Everyone’s ears hear differently just like none of us have the same fingerprint. I know many highly respected Grammy Award winning producer/composer/musicians that I trust way more the Mr Katz with far more awards that are totally opposite of his.

The proof and the opinion is when they are being heard by you, not Mr Katz, not Tyll nor Jude. Their opinions have merit but they do not carry any more weight than your opinion when it comes to your individual preferences and choices. Unless of course you are a person that doesn’t have an opinion and prefer to live in someone else’s opinion.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

I hope this thread isn't closed. Lot's of things to discuss about these particular headphones

 

[joseph69]

Great writeup. I appreciate your ongoing comparisons a great deal. Interesting to see that your excitement has also waned on the Clears.

It may be that the Focal drivers, for whatever reason (say, their metal construction as opposed to the usual plastic drivers), sound artificial and sterile to you, no matter what the chain or components involved. On the other hand, while easy to drive, Focals are extremely revealing of upstream gear and thus require careful attention to synergy. While there exist several sources, such as Dave or Hugo 2, which pair well with all of the Focals (on report), it is not the case all amps/DACs will pair equally with both, on the same level of synergy. The Clear's lower impedance and higher bass hump (relative to Utopia) make them more sensitive to some amps that pair really with the Utopia's higher impedance. With the GSX-MKII, you don't have this problem at all; it ideally works amazingly for driving any headphone. But it is possible its tonal synergy is not doing the "cold" and unmusical timbre you are finding in the headphones through that amp any favors.

I really respect items in your chain a great deal and frankly wish I owned both your main amp and your DAC. As we all know, a headphone really should not be evaluated by itself, especially one like the Utopia. It comes as a package with amp/DAC. Many people with warmer setups than yours have made similar criticisms, to be fair. In this case, the GSX-MKII perhaps is allowing you to hear the headphone most transparently. On the other hand, that kind of pairing is likely not going add warmth to the Utopia one bit and would not be my first pick if I was considering building a system around the Utopia. I would think you'd need to be even more particular about perfect masterings than is already the case with the Utopia itself. I would think GSX would be perfect for an LCD-4/HEK rig, not so much the Utopia for long-term. But admittedly I am just going off written impressions and haven't heard the pairing myself! Your description of it being cold and lacking in musicality from that amazing amp does not surprise me. Maybe try one of those other headphones TBH and stick with your amp.

TLDR: you might never like the Focal sound regardless. SR-009 is already an amazing headphone. But with headphones like Utopia (or for that matter SR-009), account should be given to amp pairings (or DACs and, for some, cables). Maybe that pairing is not synergizing according to your preferences and so it’s best to try another headphone (or stick with SR-009).

I did own the uRendu and actually think that this is likely really helping out in synergy in your setup. I still miss what the uRendu did with the Utopias. It was awesome. Very fluid and slightly laid back, yet beautiful and detailed source. It did impart its own character. Not as transparent as a non-USB source, but my Lynx (especially from Yggy) though more detailed and dynamic than the uRendu, can be slightly too bright and detailed through the Utopia, which exposes everything in the chain. I also thought the uRendu was more suitable as source than the Eitr, though the latter is far cheaper (considering the LPS for the uRendu) and arguably more transparent, while imparting less of the characteristic "musical" tonality of the uRendu. It would be nice if you had another amp around, or one that you could borrow, to see. Or do you still own the WA6?

In my chain, for instance, Yggy is not invariably the ideal DAC for something like Utopia for me with my sources, being more palatable with the uRendu. From what I heard from the Holo when I borrowed it, this was a better match, even though the Holo has excellent technicalities. If the Yggy (which is an amazing DAC) is slightly forward, in your face, 100% on full-engagement all the time, barring you from sleep, demanding attention, etc., this is actually how I would describe the Utopia too. Together, a transparently sourced—via AES input—Yggy and Utopia can amount to "too much of a good thing." I purchased a vintage Sonic Frontiers SFD-MKII, and this DAC for instance synergizes better for all kinds of music, while the Yggy is better for classical and live recordings and, assuming the masterings are well done, sounds sublime through the Utopia, which reveals everything. Like the Holo, the SFD (using a tube output stage) throws a larger head stage through the Utopias, which have been accused of having a small (though deeply layered and precise) stage. The softer, rounder, spacious, and slightly sweet timbre imparted by the nevertheless formidably resolving Frontiers DAC plays so nicely with the sharply defined, dynamic, forward, and nimble presentation of the Utopia. A similar idea is at work with my amp, to be frank. I really would like to hear the GSX with my Frontiers DAC now.

I was enjoying the Utopia very much for what they're capable of, and didn't find them to be cold sounding or uninvolving, and I even thought they had a nice sound/head stage with the GSX until I listened to my 009. Granted we're talking about 2 totally different systems (but for some the Utopia is rivaling the 009.)

Reading, as well as experiencing for myself with different amps/DACs, I've heard the 009 have bad synergy and sound cold...very cold and uninvolving to the point were I actually sold them, but then decided to go all out to really hear what they can do and started all over again. It was only when I pursued my goal to have the 009 driven to its fullest potential (at least for me) and have a more musical/enjoyable listening experience that I realized how amazing they are, and can be.

I definitely understand when you say about the different synergy, but even my Grados (which are considered sibilant to MANY) sound warmer and more involving in comparison to the Utopia (and the Clear) driven by the GSX. Real nice synergy for me.
Like you with the Sonic Frontiers SFD-MKll DAC, I found the icing on the cake for both my systems to be the uR/SU1/Holo. For me, this was the way to go for my musical enjoyment, with the Holo having the biggest impact overall.

Yes, I still own the WA6 and I've paired the Utopia with it, and it is enjoyable, but again, not in comparison to my Grados.
I also admit I'm biased toward the Grado sound signature, so this doesn't help many other headphones.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I hope this thread isn't closed. Lot's of things to discuss about these particular headphones

Hey! How the Utopias treating you?

Like the new name btw

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Hey! How the Utopias treating you?

Like the new name btw

Thanks, dude, I think it fits my personality more lol. As for the Utopia... I put that on the back burner for now. I will give my impressions next week.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I was enjoying the Utopia very much for what they're capable of, and didn't find them to be cold sounding or uninvolving, and I even thought they had a nice sound/head stage with the GSX until I listened to my 009. Granted we're talking about 2 totally different systems (but for some the Utopia is rivaling the 009.)

Reading, as well as experiencing for myself with different amps/DACs, I've heard the 009 have bad synergy and sound cold...very cold and uninvolving to the point were I actually sold them, but then decided to go all out to really hear what they can do and started all over again. It was only when I pursued my goal to have the 009 driven to its fullest potential (at least for me) and have a more musical/enjoyable listening experience that I realized how amazing they are, and can be.

I definitely understand when you say about the different synergy, but even my Grados (which are considered sibilant to MANY) sound warmer and more involving in comparison to the Utopia (and the Clear) driven by the GSX. Real nice synergy for me.
Like you with the Sonic Frontiers SFD-MKll DAC, I found the icing on the cake for both my systems to be the uR/SU1/Holo. For me, this was the way to go for my musical enjoyment, with the Holo having the biggest impact overall.

Yes, I still own the WA6 and I've paired the Utopia with it, and it is enjoyable, but again, not in comparison to my Grados.
I also admit I'm biased toward the Grado sound signature, so this doesn't help many other headphones.

As I suspected with your source. Very interesting what you say about the effort to make the SR-009 sing. That must be even more costly/difficult than for the Utopia. At least by this point synergestic amps are well-established and documented for the STAX. I think the Utopia/Clears are young enough to where people are still figuring out how to reach their ideal setup, though pairings with Chord appear to be unanimously praised.

I should say that with the GSX, the Utopias must be lightning fast. That amp has a reputation for hypersonic speed, and so do the Utopias from a low OI output and clean signal. Nevertheless, at this point, you appear to have given them a fair trial. Probably worth it to stick with what you like. It will save you more money anyways. I would give the HEKv2 or LCD-4 a try if you are craving something else. You have an amazing setup for those headphones. If anything, Clear is going to have better tonal synergy with your current setup than Utopia.

 

[joseph69]

As far as difficult, yes. It's was also costly (for me at least) but then again, if you pair the Utopia with the DAVE (which I've noticed some seem to be doing and absolutely loving) the cost is even more. And from reading the threads, yes, most seem to agree the Chords pair well with the Focals.

The Utopia/GSX is lightening quick and very authoritive...it definitely wowed me at times! I think for my self I've given them share fair (and still have about 1 week left with both, the Utopia/Clear) so I'm going to continue enjoying them wile I can, but I've decide against purchasing either. I do enjoy the tonal balance of the Clear more than the Utopia, but then again, these are 2 different animals.

Both, the HEKv2/LCD4 are next on my list to borrow being I've never heard either.

 

[DivaFonda]

I've been following some of this thread by my phone notifications. My thoughts are Focal wins no matter what because all three of their high enders have been placed in Tyll's Wall of Fame. Even if the Utopia eventually got "dumped", Focal clearly has a winning formula with their approach to headphones. I'd have thought that it'd be rare for every headphone model put out to be loved. That's certainly not the case with Sennheiser, HiFiMan, or Audeze. There's always some model that disappoints. To have all three rated highly is saying something and Focal is a brand to be watched.

That said, of course you should do your own listening and form your own impressions. Utopia is already on my list as a possible end-game no matter what. I'm just saying that's quite a feat for a professional reviewer to gush over every single high end model one manufacturer has put out.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

I think now that Senn has officially unveiled there closed back version of the 800 that Focal is coming out with a closed back. Just a guess, I could be wrong.

 

[jscmd2000]

"The HD 820 headphones are slated to go on sale early this summer, and will be priced at $2,400." - digital trends

 

[myhalis]

As I suspected with your source. Very interesting what you say about the effort to make the SR-009 sing. That must be even more costly/difficult than for the Utopia. At least by this point synergestic amps are well-established and documented for the STAX. I think the Utopia/Clears are young enough to where people are still figuring out how to reach their ideal setup, though pairings with Chord appear to be unanimously praised.

I should say that with the GSX, the Utopias must be lightning fast. That amp has a reputation for hypersonic speed, and so do the Utopias from a low OI output and clean signal. Nevertheless, at this point, you appear to have given them a fair trial. Probably worth it to stick with what you like. It will save you more money anyways. I would give the HEKv2 or LCD-4 a try if you are craving something else. You have an amazing setup for those headphones. If anything, Clear is going to have better tonal synergy with your current setup than Utopia.

I had the chance to listen to the 009 and Utopia from the same R2R DAC. Utopia was paired with the GSX and the Stax 009 with a Blue Hawaii. This was last year at a meet so I will just convey my impressions from memory. In terms of personal preferences, I like neutral headphones/amps with a slight touch of warmth. I listen to acoustic music.

I didn’t like the Utopia/GSX/Kimber Axios pairing at all. On unfamiliar music it sounded bright and uninvolving. Out of the GSX, the soundstage of the Utopia was two semi spheres and the layering happened inside each semi-sphere. I didn’t like this semi-sphere per driver presentation at all. The speed of the pairing was such that you felt guitar strings were pulled with force (I am exaggerating here but it was a bit too much). If GSX was my amp and I handn’t heard the Utopia from another system I wouldn’t consider it.

The Stax on the other hand was a revelation. The best sound I had heard. I mostly compared the two using large orchestral/classical music but also a bit of Jazz. The Stax had a significantly wider soundstage with less depth. Overall, it was no contest. The Stax sounded much more realistic, pleasant to listen and true to live music which is my benchmark. Utopia sounded forced and artificial. On Jazz tracks Utopia was closer to the Stax and if paired to another amp, such as the Woo Audio WA33 that was also at the meet, downright preferable depending on your taste.

I do love my Utopia out of a Hugo 2. For classical it may not reach the heights of a 009 out of a Blue Hawaii but it’s still quite amazing. I will have to listen to the 009 again, maybe at the NYC CanJam to re-calibrate my impressions. My understanding is that GSX was one of the amps that were used to voice the Utopia by Focal. So the combination it may not be as bad as I think. Yet these are my impressions from the meet.

 

[RobinTim]

I have been withholding my thoughts, but I guess I will finally chime in on this issue with the Utopia and the WoF.

If not done officially, as with the HD800s, many companies have been known to issue "silent revisions" over time (most obviously Audeze but also Sennheiser, Schiit, and even Apple).

Could you perhaps give an example for the Audeze revision? I am new to this whole thing so forgive me if I am asking something obvious. I was considering the LCD-4s but people seem to have very mixed opinions on it. Would that have to do with silent revisions or rather QC issues?