[deafdoorknob]

challenge accepted, let's roll!

so far... my own preferences are as follow:

shure orange foams: the bass is slightly attenuated, esp mid bass, the mids and treble are open sounding, most leaky but no more driver flex.

Dita wide bore: the firmer stem enables deeper insertion, more open sounding mids, nice spacious but relaxed treble, reasonable driver flex in that it settles after insertion. Bass strong but less "throbby" than Final E.

RHA: similar to dita but brighter than the Dita wide bore

Spinfit 100: slightly less bassy than Final E, more open sounding than final E but a little sharper, about the same driver flex, apparent if my jaw clenches.

Final E: bassy, a little congested in the lower treble, less open sounding. more driver flex than spin fit

Spiral Dots: open sounding, not as bassy as the other silicone tips, but the most amt of driver flex as well as easy to get that vaccum effect despite reseating them often.

Spinfit double flange (240, 200(?)) similar to Final E but less flex, unfortunately, both tend to stay in my ears upon removing the iems.

Sony isolation mk 2 (from the z5) not the most comfortable, similar to final E but better controlled bass.

maybe more later but the first 2 above are close to ideal for me.

 

[Andykong]

This is how a DAP should look like. Alas it didn´t get the attention it deserved ... they did nearly everything right (back then in 2014!!!)

This is Calyx-M, one of my old-time favorite DAP, it is very warm sounding and yet offer very good details and dynamic, kind of like pure class A type sound signature. The dynamic playlist was the best playlist featured in DAP (upto 2014). Their only problems are (1) short battery duration but long charging hours, and (2) slow firmware development.

Calyx has spend a very long time to develop this DAP, it has been demonstrated in various shows and events a year before its official launch, someone even called it vaporware because of the seriously delay in the R&D process. When Calyx finally announced the DAP formally at 2014 CES, headfiers were disappointed before of (1) high output impedance (2) no physical button on basic playback control (3) only one TF card with 64GB internal. Calyx accepted the suggested, delayed the launch for 3-4 months, add three physical buttons below the magnetic volume slider, add a full size SD card slot on the top, and lowered the output impedance to below 1 ohm. Check out the announcement at Jan 2014 and you'll notice the different:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Calyx-Debuts-Reference-Quality-M-Portable-Music-Player.shtml

The authorized dealer of Calyx-M in Hong Kong was a close personal friend, so I have considered getting one in several occasions. (that was before I joined Cayin). To be honest, I really like the Calyx-M, I was hoping that they can extend the battery duration or increase the charging current, unfortunately neither did happen, so I continued my search until I found Cayin N6

 

[ezekiel77]

Great writeup @Deezel177, Mentor (and Nando's) sounds like they suit my preferences more.

Mango milk is awesome @flinkenick haha. I prefer banana milk which is a staple in South Korea. If you ever go there you will find that nearly everyone there takes good care of their skin and complexion.

 

[ezekiel77]

Double post sorry I just got up

 

[Mimouille]

This is how a DAP should look like. Alas it didn´t get the attention it deserved ... they did nearly everything right (back then in 2014!!!)

Yeah looked OK, but was big for me and I remember it had short battery. I love the LPG size, simple and effective UI and most of all, sound.

 

[deafdoorknob]

This used to be called portable

 

[tim0chan]

This used to be called portable

Any impressions of the national+ with your legends?

 

[Deezel177]

Great writeup @Deezel177, Mentor (and Nando's) sounds like they suit my preferences more.

Mango milk is awesome @flinkenick haha. I prefer banana milk which is a staple in South Korea. If you ever go there you will find that nearly everyone there takes good care of their skin and complexion.

Thanks, man! I also found myself preferring the Mentor V3 over the Mason, even if neither were really my cup of tea. Regardless, if the Jomo event doesn't murder me today, I will be posting another Deezel Dash by the end of the day. So, stay tuned...

 

[deafdoorknob]

Any impressions of the national+ with your legends?

mine are bravados unfortunately, i really like it, hiss free, opens the treble and mids right up and makes the bass less phat and more propulsive, i tend to use it with my iphone se during commutes as it is less cumbersome than iphone/zx300 combo* for streaming, i like N+ more than the analogue piccolo which i used to own as it gives my DDs and andros moar ballz, however i think piccolo might be more synergestic with EE hybrids as it has a shade less bass emphasis... in fact those who still uses the cypher labs duet should give it a go. (i use the N+ with the walkman becos i need to use the line out as the headphones out carked it almost a decade ago)

*iphone/zx300 is actually not cumbersome on their own but the long a$$ wm cable + apple cck are very cumbersome!

 

[Andykong]

I guess for them the hobby is purely about the technology and some abstract concept of an ideal sound?

Even when I review I don't use a specific set of reference tracks. I certainly have my favourite tracks (Beethoven for tonality, Agnes Obel for vocals, etc), but I find it is really insightful to just browse music and see what music works best with those specific IEMs (or whatever gear I am reviewing). It is about allowing myself to be surprised and let the gear show off its strengths. A V-shaped signature generally does not work all that well for classical, but feed them rock and the presentation starts making a lot more sense. So I try to understand the aim behind a product and test that, while I explore what else does or does not work well in my opinion. It has happened that I initially did not care much for a product, almost panicking "How am I going to review this?" and ended up loving it simply because I switched to different music and that made the penny drop.

I think there might well be something in that. Music and equipment are both a product of a certain time where people shared certain preferences and times change, preferences change. So it would make perfect sense for equipment that was developed at a certain time to synergise best with the music of that time, as both came about in conjunction with each other.

I do have a fixed set of reference track for audition, but that is my starter kit. The Test folder has around 40 songs, that'll most of my on-the-go audition need. I compiled a Basic Test with 15 titles out of that and put those into every media I have on hand: TF, SD, USB thumb drive, CD-ROM, Dropbox, ... , I knows the highlights of these tracks very well and can go through them in around 20 minutes. Finally i have the RUSH list with three songs only, and I have been using this RUSH list for 10+ years.

But when I have more than a day with a piece of gear, my choice of audition music will not have a predefined limit, and I probably will have a fair understanding of the gear after my Starter kit, that'll steer me away from music that unlikely to work well which indirectly improved my efficiency of subsequent audition. To certain extend, my test folder is working a my ruler, and music appreciation comes after I applied the ruler upfront.

 

[Andykong]

I agree totally, however in 2 channel we have many more choices that are 'neutral'. I personally like a reference type of sound adn in 2 channel it's all about trying to get what was recorded. Two totally different hobbies. Both are fun in their own right. In 2 channel (US at least) I can go audition nearly any speaker I have interest in, but I can't do that with IEM's or even most headphones.

totally agree. Audiophiles are in 3 camps. One loves the gear. One loves teh music and some of us love both. I have plenty of audiophile recordings that I love to listen to, but I also will listen to anything I like.

As Cayin and others know, you can't be everything to everyone. I was on the phone yesterday with an ultra high end maker of electronics for 2 channel. We spoke about their Pono connection for cans as I want them to make a 4.4mm connector. They said sound quality is why they went that way at first. Since they aren't making Pono anymore, they will possibly switch to the DIN socket connection. Not good for IEM folks, but it's what the can folks like. Small niche markets can't have leverage when asking for things in audio, lol.

Well, we can also audition a lot of speakers in Hong Kong, or even compare several amplifier through one set of speaker, but I am not sure if you'll appreciate the way these speaker and amplifier are setup. Take a look at the following photo:

Photo courtesy from Feversound
So there are around 30 pairs of speaker piles up in 4 to 5 "layers", and then 20-30 pieces of electronics on the shelves adjacent to these speaker wall, and everything is connected through a huge switchbox.

Ont he other hand, checking out headphones or IEMs will be a lot easier because space requirements are significantly smaller. While we have the biggest space problem in the world, that also means we have the highest density of shops competing with each other in a very compact environment.

Back to the music vs gear discussion. Assuming your categorization is correct, so among the "One loves the gear. One loves the music and some of us love both" grouping, who do you think the manufacturers are focusing on right now? Before the latest trend of streaming music, when the music lovers spending a lot of money to build up their software library, will there be a significant market opportunity to sell high-end DAP or 2 channel system to these "music lovers"?

By the way, the dual 3.5mm approach is great, I was hoping that they'll take off as the defacto standard, too bad it didn't happen. The 4.4 is the next best thing and to be honest I lost interest if they switch to DIN socket, I hope they understand that choosing a connector is more then considering the technical merit of the connectors, we are talking about interface which mean we need to consider the practicality from BOTH direction, when something is feasible to you doesn't necessarily mean that is also feasible to the other side of the interface, and conform to industrial standard or de facto standard will speed up the negotiation between two sides of an Interface.

 

[Andykong]

We have a small audio shows in Hong Kong this weekend, and I find this "portable" amp in the Headgear zone.







I have talked to Mr Take Saegusa, CEO of Acoustune when I audition this "prototype", his used a pair of Kobe receiving tube originally, the detail and separation is amazing. I said I'll prefer more body and he change the tube to a pair of Tungsol 1L4, proven the amplifier is fairly sensitive to tube rolling and I like what I heard after the tube change although I need to sacrifice on transparency and control slightly.

When I use UERM with 2.5mm, the volume was set at 9 o'clock. When I switch to Kennerton Thror with 4.4, I turn the volume up to 11 o'clock.

 

[proedros]

Excellent post Daniel, but I think you guys are hijacking the mango milk discussion.

i heard you saying this quote in Mac's voice , while wearing the trench-coat and the ''occular patdown' sunglasses

(Long Pause) Clear.

[ yeah , i am officially burned with It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia ]

 

[deafdoorknob]

Well, we can also audition a lot of speakers in Hong Kong, or even compare several amplifier through one set of speaker, but I am not sure if you'll appreciate the way these speaker and amplifier are setup. Take a look at the following photo:

Photo courtesy from Feversound
So there are around 30 pairs of speaker piles up in 4 to 5 "layers", and then 20-30 pieces of electronics on the shelves adjacent to these speaker wall, and everything is connected through a huge switchbox.

Ont he other hand, checking out headphones or IEMs will be a lot easier because space requirements are significantly smaller. While we have the biggest space problem in the world, that also means we have the highest density of shops competing with each other in a very compact environment.

Back to the music vs gear discussion. Assuming your categorization is correct, so among the "One loves the gear. One loves the music and some of us love both" grouping, who do you think the manufacturers are focusing on right now? Before the latest trend of streaming music, when the music lovers spending a lot of money to build up their software library, will there be a significant market opportunity to sell high-end DAP or 2 channel system to these "music lovers"?

By the way, the dual 3.5mm approach is great, I was hoping that they'll take off as the defacto standard, too bad it didn't happen. The 4.4 is the next best thing and to be honest I lost interest if they switch to DIN socket, I hope they understand that choosing a connector is more then considering the technical merit of the connectors, we are talking about interface which mean we need to consider the practicality from BOTH direction, when something is feasible to you doesn't necessarily mean that is also feasible to the other side of the interface, and conform to industrial standard or de facto standard will speed up the negotiation between two sides of an Interface.

though on the flipside, the lack of proper auditions is a large contributing factor (along with no returns and refunds) that what keeps used market so vibrant in hk lol.

 

[davidcotton]

This is Calyx-M, one of my old-time favorite DAP, it is very warm sounding and yet offer very good details and dynamic, kind of like pure class A type sound signature. The dynamic playlist was the best playlist featured in DAP (upto 2014). Their only problems are (1) short battery duration but long charging hours, and (2) slow firmware development.

Calyx has spend a very long time to develop this DAP, it has been demonstrated in various shows and events a year before its official launch, someone even called it vaporware because of the seriously delay in the R&D process. When Calyx finally announced the DAP formally at 2014 CES, headfiers were disappointed before of (1) high output impedance (2) no physical button on basic playback control (3) only one TF card with 64GB internal. Calyx accepted the suggested, delayed the launch for 3-4 months, add three physical buttons below the magnetic volume slider, add a full size SD card slot on the top, and lowered the output impedance to below 1 ohm. Check out the announcement at Jan 2014 and you'll notice the different:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Calyx-Debuts-Reference-Quality-M-Portable-Music-Player.shtml

The authorized dealer of Calyx-M in Hong Kong was a close personal friend, so I have considered getting one in several occasions. (that was before I joined Cayin). To be honest, I really like the Calyx-M, I was hoping that they can extend the battery duration or increase the charging current, unfortunately neither did happen, so I continued my search until I found Cayin N6

I was going to comment that the player seemed to tick a lot of boxes except for battery life. How did anyone consider 5-6 hours (which I think was the reported run time in the few reviews I read at the time) acceptable even in 2014?