davidcotton
X-CANs and HDAMs
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Any idea how the bravado's perform with rock and metal by chance?
flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
deafdoorknob
1000+ Head-Fier
exceedingly well to my taste, but i am more into post rock, progressive metal side of rock, speedier types might be a little to "weighty" for some tho.
noplsestar
Headphoneus Supremus
It‘s a downside for sure. But I recharge it every night (like my IPhone) and have no problem with that. Never listen more than 5 hours when I’m on the go anyways. When I‘m home I can use it as USB dac. As said, zero hiss. For those who seek SQ first I think it’s manageable for the asking price. It has so much storage compared to others DAPs too. No WiFi and Bluetooth and that other crap haha, just pure music as a download guy like me loves it
davidcotton
X-CANs and HDAMs
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More into the progressive side (10-20 minute songs ironically make the day go faster at work!) and do the occasional side steps into aor/melodic rock and synth instrumental stuff for a bit of variety.
(Modified repost from 64 thread)
Brief impressions A4t, A6t, and U12t
The A4t and A6t share a strong 'house sound' with the A18t and to a lesser degree Fourte, which can can be described as a variation of neutral/natural. The sound is predominantly neutral, but 64 Audio mixes in a dash of warmth and brightness by means of an enhanced mid-bass and upper and lower treble, to make it a more musical variation of neutral. So, if you like the tone of the A18t, you will also like the tone of the A4t and A6t.
The A6t too has an enhanced mid-bass, with a lower treble peak around 7 KHz and bit of upper treble emphasis around 12 KHz I believe. But where it diverges from its siblings, is with a very pleasing midrange, stemming from a nice bump between 500 Hz to 2 Khz. This results in a slightly forward, bodied, and sufficiently dense vocal presentation, with just the slightest touch of thickness from the bass. In sum, a very natural vocal reproduction - flinkenick approves. Its bottom-end extension and sub-bass impact is around average, but its mid-bass is more than sufficient in quantity, and remains nicely controlled. It's a punchy bass, that adds a musical element, and some extra body to the sound. The treble in turn has a clear tone, but is smoothly integrated within the signature. All in all, an easy-going and coherent signature which simply sounds very good to my ears.
There is a steady increase in performance between the A4t, A6t, and U12t, which can in part be attributed to a decreasing quantity of bass. The A4t for instance pumps out a significant quantity of mid- and upper-bass, which easily tends to congestion in its moderately-sized stage, affecting both its transparency and separation. There is a thickness from the bass, but the bass itself lacks extension as well as definition. It attempts to compensate with a 6 Khz peak to improve its note articulation, but the resolution is not very high. As a result, notes tend to blend against the background, and the detail retrieval is quite low. Combining the 6 KHz peak with a linear midrange in turn results in a laid-back vocal presentation, that lacks density and forwardness. The vocal emphasis is centered on pronunciation, but there is no body in support. So, its primary selling point to me is its tonality, if you like the typical 64 Audio sound (which I find I do) - or simply like bass, albeit quantity over quality.
In contrast to the A4t, the A6t's performance does not feel lacking in a way that disappoints - simply because it is an enjoyable signature. The stage is not particularly airy, so the A6t does not quite reach top-tier in performance in terms of separation and resolution, but comes close enough. The U12t's performance on the other hand I find slightly above average in the top-tier range. It has a noticeably cleaner presentation, besting the A6t in terms of separation, transparency, and resolution, while having a significantly wider stage. The sound is built on a solid foundation of its midrange: a slight dip in its lower midrange around 500 Hz creates some extra space, but there is a nice rise throughout its mid- and upper-midrange frequencies. Accordingly, it provides an excellently bodied and dense vocal reconstruction. And as the mid- and especially upper-bass is pretty neutral, it renders a clean and transparent midrange.
Due to its midrange and bass tuning, I actually find U12t's midrange more transparent than Fourte, while its signature is more coherent. The bass, midrange, and treble are perfectly aligned, though more so with the M20 module (with M15 the bass is somewhat laid-back). The treble is clear and detailed, but not prominent. That being said, the U12t in turn has a very neutral tone - what I personally would describe as dead neutral. Tonally, it might lack a bit of naturalness or excitement. So while the U12t is clearly technically superior, the A6t to me has the more beautiful tonality, and is overall very reminiscent of the EarSonics EM10 at a cheaper price, or a less warm Phantom perhaps. As illustration, I went by the store yesterday and traded the A4t for the U12t, while I decided to hang on to the A6t a bit longer.
Brief impressions A4t, A6t, and U12t
The A4t and A6t share a strong 'house sound' with the A18t and to a lesser degree Fourte, which can can be described as a variation of neutral/natural. The sound is predominantly neutral, but 64 Audio mixes in a dash of warmth and brightness by means of an enhanced mid-bass and upper and lower treble, to make it a more musical variation of neutral. So, if you like the tone of the A18t, you will also like the tone of the A4t and A6t.
The A6t too has an enhanced mid-bass, with a lower treble peak around 7 KHz and bit of upper treble emphasis around 12 KHz I believe. But where it diverges from its siblings, is with a very pleasing midrange, stemming from a nice bump between 500 Hz to 2 Khz. This results in a slightly forward, bodied, and sufficiently dense vocal presentation, with just the slightest touch of thickness from the bass. In sum, a very natural vocal reproduction - flinkenick approves. Its bottom-end extension and sub-bass impact is around average, but its mid-bass is more than sufficient in quantity, and remains nicely controlled. It's a punchy bass, that adds a musical element, and some extra body to the sound. The treble in turn has a clear tone, but is smoothly integrated within the signature. All in all, an easy-going and coherent signature which simply sounds very good to my ears.
There is a steady increase in performance between the A4t, A6t, and U12t, which can in part be attributed to a decreasing quantity of bass. The A4t for instance pumps out a significant quantity of mid- and upper-bass, which easily tends to congestion in its moderately-sized stage, affecting both its transparency and separation. There is a thickness from the bass, but the bass itself lacks extension as well as definition. It attempts to compensate with a 6 Khz peak to improve its note articulation, but the resolution is not very high. As a result, notes tend to blend against the background, and the detail retrieval is quite low. Combining the 6 KHz peak with a linear midrange in turn results in a laid-back vocal presentation, that lacks density and forwardness. The vocal emphasis is centered on pronunciation, but there is no body in support. So, its primary selling point to me is its tonality, if you like the typical 64 Audio sound (which I find I do) - or simply like bass, albeit quantity over quality.
In contrast to the A4t, the A6t's performance does not feel lacking in a way that disappoints - simply because it is an enjoyable signature. The stage is not particularly airy, so the A6t does not quite reach top-tier in performance in terms of separation and resolution, but comes close enough. The U12t's performance on the other hand I find slightly above average in the top-tier range. It has a noticeably cleaner presentation, besting the A6t in terms of separation, transparency, and resolution, while having a significantly wider stage. The sound is built on a solid foundation of its midrange: a slight dip in its lower midrange around 500 Hz creates some extra space, but there is a nice rise throughout its mid- and upper-midrange frequencies. Accordingly, it provides an excellently bodied and dense vocal reconstruction. And as the mid- and especially upper-bass is pretty neutral, it renders a clean and transparent midrange.
Due to its midrange and bass tuning, I actually find U12t's midrange more transparent than Fourte, while its signature is more coherent. The bass, midrange, and treble are perfectly aligned, though more so with the M20 module (with M15 the bass is somewhat laid-back). The treble is clear and detailed, but not prominent. That being said, the U12t in turn has a very neutral tone - what I personally would describe as dead neutral. Tonally, it might lack a bit of naturalness or excitement. So while the U12t is clearly technically superior, the A6t to me has the more beautiful tonality, and is overall very reminiscent of the EarSonics EM10 at a cheaper price, or a less warm Phantom perhaps. As illustration, I went by the store yesterday and traded the A4t for the U12t, while I decided to hang on to the A6t a bit longer.
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sorry, i gotta post this one more time in this thread
me when i read nic complementing the iem i bought
also me when i read nic likes the same configuration as me (m20 module on a12t)
me when i read nic complementing the iem i bought
also me when i read nic likes the same configuration as me (m20 module on a12t)
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ctsooner22
1000+ Head-Fier
Nic slays it again. Love reading your thoughts on all things portable....as well as life!
And I used to use that in college as my go to. I used my Koss portable headphones to walk around with, lol...life changed quickly after that, but I used Koss in the studio back then as that's all they had. lol
Wow, I now realize why folks don't always 'get' 2 channel. They need 1 sound room where they can set up a near field listening environment to sell some of this very good sounding gear. Andy, I wish I could come over to visit you and have fun auditioning and listening to fun music.
Manufactures I speak with are focused on teh gear guys. They are the ones who purchase the gear adn that has never really changed over the years.
I too feel the dual 3.5mm balanced sounds best. I spoke with a lead engineer at Ayre this week about these connections and was told that they are only after the best sound. This is why even the Codex at 2k has the Pono connectors. If someone listens at home, they should get a set made wiht their top cable and then switch out etc... I promise you they will hear a tremendous difference. I have a specially made Pono type cable for my top head phones. I will put my ZMF Ori's in balanced mode with a 15' all silver cable (hand drawn adn the best headphone cable I've EVER auditioned), hooked up to my Ayre QX5/20 DAC/Streamer/AMP and it will compete or beat most can's regardless of cost that are played with stock cables into most any of their dac amp combos that are under 10k.
I'll be selling the Ayre only because I have The Memory Player coming in soon (we are swapping to StealthCaps for the bypass caps and making some other major upgrades) and Sam (owner) is installing a special headphone amp for me, so I'm hoping it's close to the Ayre.
Andy, I wish I could afford one of your top amps, lol....
This used to be called portable
And I used to use that in college as my go to. I used my Koss portable headphones to walk around with, lol...life changed quickly after that, but I used Koss in the studio back then as that's all they had. lol
Well, we can also audition a lot of speakers in Hong Kong, or even compare several amplifier through one set of speaker, but I am not sure if you'll appreciate the way these speaker and amplifier are setup. Take a look at the following photo:
Photo courtesy from Feversound
So there are around 30 pairs of speaker piles up in 4 to 5 "layers", and then 20-30 pieces of electronics on the shelves adjacent to these speaker wall, and everything is connected through a huge switchbox.
Ont he other hand, checking out headphones or IEMs will be a lot easier because space requirements are significantly smaller. While we have the biggest space problem in the world, that also means we have the highest density of shops competing with each other in a very compact environment.
Back to the music vs gear discussion. Assuming your categorization is correct, so among the "One loves the gear. One loves the music and some of us love both" grouping, who do you think the manufacturers are focusing on right now? Before the latest trend of streaming music, when the music lovers spending a lot of money to build up their software library, will there be a significant market opportunity to sell high-end DAP or 2 channel system to these "music lovers"?
By the way, the dual 3.5mm approach is great, I was hoping that they'll take off as the defacto standard, too bad it didn't happen. The 4.4 is the next best thing and to be honest I lost interest if they switch to DIN socket, I hope they understand that choosing a connector is more then considering the technical merit of the connectors, we are talking about interface which mean we need to consider the practicality from BOTH direction, when something is feasible to you doesn't necessarily mean that is also feasible to the other side of the interface, and conform to industrial standard or de facto standard will speed up the negotiation between two sides of an Interface.
Wow, I now realize why folks don't always 'get' 2 channel. They need 1 sound room where they can set up a near field listening environment to sell some of this very good sounding gear. Andy, I wish I could come over to visit you and have fun auditioning and listening to fun music.
Manufactures I speak with are focused on teh gear guys. They are the ones who purchase the gear adn that has never really changed over the years.
I too feel the dual 3.5mm balanced sounds best. I spoke with a lead engineer at Ayre this week about these connections and was told that they are only after the best sound. This is why even the Codex at 2k has the Pono connectors. If someone listens at home, they should get a set made wiht their top cable and then switch out etc... I promise you they will hear a tremendous difference. I have a specially made Pono type cable for my top head phones. I will put my ZMF Ori's in balanced mode with a 15' all silver cable (hand drawn adn the best headphone cable I've EVER auditioned), hooked up to my Ayre QX5/20 DAC/Streamer/AMP and it will compete or beat most can's regardless of cost that are played with stock cables into most any of their dac amp combos that are under 10k.
I'll be selling the Ayre only because I have The Memory Player coming in soon (we are swapping to StealthCaps for the bypass caps and making some other major upgrades) and Sam (owner) is installing a special headphone amp for me, so I'm hoping it's close to the Ayre.
Andy, I wish I could afford one of your top amps, lol....
Not so fast, @ctsooner22! In an eery twist of fate - and to continue the current bout @flinkenick and I have been participating in - ladies and gentlemen, I present to you…
64Audio N8 & PWAudio Saladin
The 64Audio N8 was a product I absolutely loved at CanJam SG. Its analog, warm and tube-like tonality was instantly loveable paired with the Tia driver’s open and crystalline top-end. However, in balanced mode with the PWAudio cable, the N8 takes on a cleaner and more transparent character; stemming from a more controlled mid-bass and a cleaner upper-midrange. The N8’s previously warmer low-end has evened out towards the sub-bass. As a result, the N8 attains a cleaner stage, as well as a blacker background, but the N8's addictive bass emphasis/accentuation was certainly maintained. This shift in contrast also means the N8 sounds clearer and more dynamic; satisfyingly impactful yet expertly controlled from bottom to top. Vocals and instruments sound more vibrant, with greater airiness, openness and detail. This plus the Tia driver’s upper-treble peak creates an open stage almost the likes of the U12t, but infused with an immensely guttural low-end as the foundation. The timbre overall is now closer to neutral (especially in the upper-midrange; where it’s brighter), but no amount of fun or ease was lost here; punchy, smooth, clear and reservedly energetic throughout.
64Audio U6t & PWAudio Saladin
My initial impressions of the U6t were that they were too lean and crisp for my tastes; lacking mid-bass body. I don’t know whether it was the show floor, the tips that were used, the single-ended configuration or some combination of them all, but my recent demo of the U6t had me quite floored: It is an incredibly balanced and musical IEM with no leanness to be found at all. It still maintains a vibrant, airy and well-articulated treble, but a richer mid-bass fills out its presentation - leading to a weightier and denser sonic palate reminiscent of the old U6. In fact, it’s mid-bass is probably a touch above neutral; night-and-day compared to my initial impressions. Again, the Tia driver still complements that with an immensely open stage and an airy delivery. The N8 with the balanced Saladin still sounds cleaner and more transparent (as a result of mid-bass control and treble speed), but the U6t has a more present centre-midrange; around 1-2kHz. This hump creates a more musical atmosphere, filled with dense and engaging instruments from end to end. There is still a light leanness in the U6t’s upper-treble, but it’s delicately delivered at the same time; a silky and elegant sense of air, even if it is a touch of warmth away from full naturalness.
Han Sound Aegis
Additionally, I managed to audition the U6t with the Han Sound Audio Aegis cable. Although I didn’t spend much time with the pairing, my initial listen leads me to believe the Aegis is a cable with an emphasis on fun and dynamic energy. The U6t experienced a boost in sub-bass energy, leading to a more even distribution between sub- and mid-bass frequencies. Thankfully, the upper-midrange has risen as well; around 2-3kHz. This prevents vocals (female especially) from sounding too recessed and adds a beautiful melodic light to the U6t’s delivery. The 12kHz peak also seems to have received additional energy, but I couldn’t confirm in the time I had. Nevertheless, the Aegis is a great alternative to the Saladin; infusing a cleaner and more textured sense of energy without excess or fatigue.
The Deezel Dash: In-Ear Edition - 64Audio & PWAudio
By the time I finished my Nando’s chicken, noon had come. So, I packed my bags and instantly set off for my favourite audio store in all of Singapore: Music Sanctuary. Known for their plethora of custom in-ear monitors, cables and mods, Music Sanctuary have become world-renowned for their expertise, personality and honesty. Among the many products I auditioned there, the two that made the biggest impact on me were - surprisingly - products I had already auditioned in the past: The 64Audio U6t and N8. I’d tried them before at CanJam SG with the stock, single-ended cable, but now - on balanced - they have become immensely more impressive.
64Audio N8 & PWAudio Saladin
The 64Audio N8 was a product I absolutely loved at CanJam SG. Its analog, warm and tube-like tonality was instantly loveable paired with the Tia driver’s open and crystalline top-end. However, in balanced mode with the PWAudio cable, the N8 takes on a cleaner and more transparent character; stemming from a more controlled mid-bass and a cleaner upper-midrange. The N8’s previously warmer low-end has evened out towards the sub-bass. As a result, the N8 attains a cleaner stage, as well as a blacker background, but the N8's addictive bass emphasis/accentuation was certainly maintained. This shift in contrast also means the N8 sounds clearer and more dynamic; satisfyingly impactful yet expertly controlled from bottom to top. Vocals and instruments sound more vibrant, with greater airiness, openness and detail. This plus the Tia driver’s upper-treble peak creates an open stage almost the likes of the U12t, but infused with an immensely guttural low-end as the foundation. The timbre overall is now closer to neutral (especially in the upper-midrange; where it’s brighter), but no amount of fun or ease was lost here; punchy, smooth, clear and reservedly energetic throughout.
64Audio U6t & PWAudio Saladin
My initial impressions of the U6t were that they were too lean and crisp for my tastes; lacking mid-bass body. I don’t know whether it was the show floor, the tips that were used, the single-ended configuration or some combination of them all, but my recent demo of the U6t had me quite floored: It is an incredibly balanced and musical IEM with no leanness to be found at all. It still maintains a vibrant, airy and well-articulated treble, but a richer mid-bass fills out its presentation - leading to a weightier and denser sonic palate reminiscent of the old U6. In fact, it’s mid-bass is probably a touch above neutral; night-and-day compared to my initial impressions. Again, the Tia driver still complements that with an immensely open stage and an airy delivery. The N8 with the balanced Saladin still sounds cleaner and more transparent (as a result of mid-bass control and treble speed), but the U6t has a more present centre-midrange; around 1-2kHz. This hump creates a more musical atmosphere, filled with dense and engaging instruments from end to end. There is still a light leanness in the U6t’s upper-treble, but it’s delicately delivered at the same time; a silky and elegant sense of air, even if it is a touch of warmth away from full naturalness.
Han Sound Aegis
Additionally, I managed to audition the U6t with the Han Sound Audio Aegis cable. Although I didn’t spend much time with the pairing, my initial listen leads me to believe the Aegis is a cable with an emphasis on fun and dynamic energy. The U6t experienced a boost in sub-bass energy, leading to a more even distribution between sub- and mid-bass frequencies. Thankfully, the upper-midrange has risen as well; around 2-3kHz. This prevents vocals (female especially) from sounding too recessed and adds a beautiful melodic light to the U6t’s delivery. The 12kHz peak also seems to have received additional energy, but I couldn’t confirm in the time I had. Nevertheless, the Aegis is a great alternative to the Saladin; infusing a cleaner and more textured sense of energy without excess or fatigue.
Ike1985
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Posts
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Any ideas of price of N8t vs Trio? Trio and n8t seem to have quiet a bit in common at first glance. Thx for the excellent impressions.
Thank you! The N8 is currently slated to launch at $2499 SGD according to Music Sanctuary's website, while the Trio is listed at $3299 SGD. So, the N8 should be around three-quarters the price of the Trio.
Just got some pretty bad news unfortunately.. Rick informed me he will be expanding his product line.
Man... I feel like we're spiritually connected somehow. Guess who's gonna be visiting AV One to demo the Lola and Billie Jean tomorrow, too?
nic will be in forever
ctsooner22
1000+ Head-Fier
Not so fast, @ctsooner22! In an eery twist of fate - and to continue the current bout @flinkenick and I have been participating in - ladies and gentlemen, I present to you…
The Deezel Dash: In-Ear Edition - 64Audio & PWAudioBy the time I finished my Nando’s chicken, noon had come. So, I packed my bags and instantly set off for my favourite audio store in all of Singapore: Music Sanctuary. Known for their plethora of custom in-ear monitors, cables and mods, Music Sanctuary have become world-renowned for their expertise, personality and honesty. Among the many products I auditioned there, the two that made the biggest impact on me were - surprisingly - products I had already auditioned in the past: The 64Audio U6t and N8. I’d tried them before at CanJam SG with the stock, single-ended cable, but now - on balanced - they have become immensely more impressive.
64Audio N8 & PWAudio Saladin
The 64Audio N8 was a product I absolutely loved at CanJam SG. Its analog, warm and tube-like tonality was instantly loveable paired with the Tia driver’s open and crystalline top-end. However, in balanced mode with the PWAudio cable, the N8 takes on a cleaner and more transparent character; stemming from a more controlled mid-bass and a cleaner upper-midrange. The N8’s previously warmer low-end has evened out towards the sub-bass. As a result, the N8 attains a cleaner stage, as well as a blacker background, but the N8's addictive bass emphasis/accentuation was certainly maintained. This shift in contrast also means the N8 sounds clearer and more dynamic; satisfyingly impactful yet expertly controlled from bottom to top. Vocals and instruments sound more vibrant, with greater airiness, openness and detail. This plus the Tia driver’s upper-treble peak creates an open stage almost the likes of the U12t, but infused with an immensely guttural low-end as the foundation. The timbre overall is now closer to neutral (especially in the upper-midrange; where it’s brighter), but no amount of fun or ease was lost here; punchy, smooth, clear and reservedly energetic throughout.
64Audio U6t & PWAudio Saladin
My initial impressions of the U6t were that they were too lean and crisp for my tastes; lacking mid-bass body. I don’t know whether it was the show floor, the tips that were used, the single-ended configuration or some combination of them all, but my recent demo of the U6t had me quite floored: It is an incredibly balanced and musical IEM with no leanness to be found at all. It still maintains a vibrant, airy and well-articulated treble, but a richer mid-bass fills out its presentation - leading to a weightier and denser sonic palate reminiscent of the old U6. In fact, it’s mid-bass is probably a touch above neutral; night-and-day compared to my initial impressions. Again, the Tia driver still complements that with an immensely open stage and an airy delivery. The N8 with the balanced Saladin still sounds cleaner and more transparent (as a result of mid-bass control and treble speed), but the U6t has a more present centre-midrange; around 1-2kHz. This hump creates a more musical atmosphere, filled with dense and engaging instruments from end to end. There is still a light leanness in the U6t’s upper-treble, but it’s delicately delivered at the same time; a silky and elegant sense of air, even if it is a touch of warmth away from full naturalness.
Han Sound Aegis
Additionally, I managed to audition the U6t with the Han Sound Audio Aegis cable. Although I didn’t spend much time with the pairing, my initial listen leads me to believe the Aegis is a cable with an emphasis on fun and dynamic energy. The U6t experienced a boost in sub-bass energy, leading to a more even distribution between sub- and mid-bass frequencies. Thankfully, the upper-midrange has risen as well; around 2-3kHz. This prevents vocals (female especially) from sounding too recessed and adds a beautiful melodic light to the U6t’s delivery. The 12kHz peak also seems to have received additional energy, but I couldn’t confirm in the time I had. Nevertheless, the Aegis is a great alternative to the Saladin; infusing a cleaner and more textured sense of energy without excess or fatigue.
What a great review. I am part of the 64 tour and can’t wait to hear them in my house where it’s quiet and I have my gear. They were too bright when I heard them and I liked the trio best. Can’t wait.
Yes, 5-6 hours something per battery charge. I was using DX100 at that time and I only got around 7 hours after I send the unit back to China to replace the battery, so it wan't completely unacceptable, besides I think the last minute changes has reduced the space allocated to battery compartment, and cut shorted the battery duration. The biggest concern was actually short battery duration and long charging hours happened at the same time.
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