Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread
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krumplib430

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As I have became quite a big fanboy of the E3000 in the last couple of months, here are my impressions comparing with other IEMs in my collection (from favorite to least favorite order). Please note these are only my impressions with my set of ears, and can be very different for other folks :)


E3000: Superior staging, imaging. Good separation. Perfect tuning, perfect amount of bass, mids and treble. Pretty good attack and clarity. Can be used with any type of music. The biggest advantage is the superior natural / lifelike timbre. It can sound so realistic from M11 Pro that is "unreal" (a bit less realistic from my other sources but still superior to other iems)... Certain instruments are coming from above my head which makes them even more realistic. The most emotion inducing IEMs I have ever heard.

IER-M9: bit more detail pickup in the treble. Very good imaging and staging, but stage is smaller than 3000. Not as natural/realistic sounding as E3000. The most precise IEM I ever heard. BA bass is very good, pretty close to a DD bass. My second favorite after the 3000.

E4000: A bit bigger stage than 3000 but quite a bit darker. More bass and rolled off treble. Vocals come closer to you while other instruments can sound far away from you.

XBA-Z5: Very V-shaped, bass is very good, treble is a bit more artificial than M9. Not as precise as M9.

E5000: Huge stage, but even darker than 4000. Treble rolled off even more, I missing some treble details in certain songs which I can hear with other gear. Very good for movie watching and with peaky treble electronic music, for other genres - not so much.

XBA-A3: A crappier version of Z5. Not as precise as Z5, but strangely the perceived stage is bigger than Z5.

B3: A bit too treble centric. It needs bass boost for my ears, otherwise I will miss some important bass information from music which is equally important in my opinion. Can sound a bit congested sometimes, not a huge stage, not the best imaging capabilities, but I like these with certain live / acoustic recordings and for these genres sounds awesome. They sounds super lively and intense for these genres. My least favorite Final unfortunately, but still love them though.

Fiio FH7: Very good technicalities, but sounds too thin also the treble is too much for me even with bass filter and bass tips. Very fatiguing for me. Can only listen to them 10 minutes max.

Blon-03: I'm not sure why people rave about these. The tonality is good, but it has uncontrolled boomy / boxy bass, muddy, not really clean treble. Staging is above average. The 3000 -which is in similar price range - murders it in every possible way.

XBA-N3: Good tonality but it is very "in your head" feeling compared to my other IEMs which has decent stage and separation. Also not the best detail pickup. Superior Bass though.

Tin-T3: these IEMs are super bad in my opinion :frowning2: worst buy of my life. Sounds super unnatural and off, I can't even describe how bad they are...


What I have learnt from this hobby: money won't buy you better sound. The E3000 is one of the cheapest and hands down the best IEM I ever heard, even comparing to big dogs like M9.
All in all, I don't really understand why certain chi-fi IEMs are hyped to death (looking at you BLON), while I can barely see any mainstream reviewers even mentioning the E3000... Maybe the E3000 is tuned only for my ears :)
If final will ever produce an upgraded E3000 with more sturdy / better / replacable cable, that would be an instant buy for me.

I'm a bit worried that Final will push only B and A lines which are mostly mids/treble detail centric :frowning2: Hope they won't forget about the bass which is equally important in music and necessary to give you emotions.
 
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marius.na

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Tanks for this.
I have never tried the e3000, I had the e5000 but they did not convince me.
I tried e5000, fiio fh5, shure se 215 and fiio fa1.
In the end a like the Fiio FA1 100 euro vs 250 euro just not so gut base, is whery fast but mids is high whery gut for me.
 
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HuoYuanJia

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jant71

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Hi guys,

Is it possible to re-cable e3000 ?
Should be fairly easy in theory. Simple tube so you just have to work the front sound tube off then pull everything through and do what you gotta do. The issues are how it might be adhered in and how the driver is attached. I'd assume it is adhered to the black bore/tube. If you can separate w/o damaging things is the biggest hurdle.
 
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bhima

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Absolute initial impressions of the Flares Pro 2 HD using all 3 tips, and a Fiio E17K source compared to the E5000:

The flares have more overall resolution, but it comes at a cost of most of the sound being a bit forward--the soundstage does not feel as large as the E5000, not even close really imo. They also have a pretty nasty midbass hump which might need some burn in to remove. As of now, if I listened to these side by side without knowing which one costs more, I'd say they cost the same and do things a bit differently. Not sure that really is a good thing for the Flares since they are $500.

Will report back after I test out the bluetooth DAC and these have had a few days of burn in.
 
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bhima

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Well they have settle down a bit on the midbass issue which has opened them up. they are superior to the E5000 in every metric though i think soundstage still goes to the e5000. Bass is more accurate with more punch and faster decay. midrange resolution and placement on the stage is greater and the treble has more sparkle/air. Now having said that, I do have to add context: while you dont have to listen critically to notice these differences, the overall end result is still pretty minor. My listening enjoyment may have gone up 10-15% but the cost to my wallet was over 60% the cost of the E5000. Im not sure that tradeoff is worth it to me because I dont always sit and pay that close attention to my music. Soundstage and spatial imaging are things i notice most when im listening while doing something else (unless the headphone is lacking severely in bass, mid or treble response--or just has a sound sig I dont get along with). And I feel the E5000 at least matches these Flares on that. Also, Im not too keen on $500 headphones that dont have MMCX terminate at the housing. the cable on the Flares is light and soft, but it also feels fragile and will eventually short. then you are SOL.

Currently, Im leaning towards sending the Flares back and keeping the Finals. will give it one more full day before making a decision. Still, I think Ive reached well into diminishing returns with IEMs. Its highly doubtful there is much more listening enjoyment beyond $500 in this form factor. Likely another 10-15% for another $1,000 or so.
 
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jkjk123

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Thanks for making the comparison between the Flares Pro 2HD and the Final E5000. I currently have the Final E5000 and am loving them for casual listening and listening while working. I EQed the bass down quite a bit (about 7dB at the peak) in a U shaped curve since I find the default signature too warm.

I was curious about the Flares Pro 2HD since I remember trying the original Flares Pros and thinking that the bass was spectacular. While the bass on the Final E5000 is quite good, I do wish it was a bit tighter and more textured. The original Flares Pro had too much treble for me however, and I read that the 2HD has less treble and more mids (which sounds like my cup of tea). Interested in trying them out, but I do wish they had a removable cable. The Pro cable did feel quite rubbery and flimsy for an expensive IEM - I'm not sure why they haven't improved this yet.
 
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Final Audio

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I'd highly recommend getting a DAP for the E5000. I also own a G7 and I find that the dynamic Vrms adjustment thing that LG has implemented somewhat limits the driver potential (makes mid-bass a bit bloated while messing with upper treble extension). A powerful DAP like DX160 or Dethonray DTR-1 will be excellent on-the-go pairing while on the desktop side a good amp like Atom will serve you excellently. Fiio BTR5 and the likes are also good for on-the-go. I just find the G7 is not the best fit for driving low-impedance high-sensitivity IEMs.
It is true that E5000 performs way better when it is paired with a dedicated source.
Every driver has its own initial frequency response before tuning. Unfortunately, to achieve the sound that we want the E5000 to have, our engineers were forced to suppress those unwanted peaks and this has also lead to the decrement of overall sensitivity. E5000 is so far the IEM which has the lowest sensitivity (93db/mW) among Final line up.

That time, 3 years ago, based on the market of Japan, our hypothesis was, a person who is willing to purchase an earphone retailing around USD300, the possibility for the users to own a dedicated music player is very high. So we thought that it would be fine.

Eventually, the time has proven us wrong. Smartphone has become more and more common as a music player, and more and more people start to appreciate good sound and willing to upgrade their casual use earphone to even a USD300 earphone. Too bad we could not predict the future. :p

However, Final listen and learn, we will take more care of our future product in terms of sensitivity.

To Italy, absolutely yes. Both when using Amazon shipping, and when setting up a reforwarding service with companies like Tenso or whatever (for those items where no international shipping is offered).
Actually, Final products are currently available on most of the Amazon in Europe which includes, Italy, Germany, Spain and France.

We actually do not encourage purchasing from Amazon Japan because no matter how good a product is, there is still a slight chance for it to breakdown.
Amazon Japan would not help you with the repair and replacement process but the local Amazon will.

While considering better and more convenient aftersales support, we strongly recommend to purchase it from the closer dealers.

I've officially switched to the E3000 as my everyday-carry IEM. I bought it with zero expectations and it's pleasantly surprised me ever since. The instrument separation (esp the air between instruments) and lifelike vocals are too good to ignore. The fixed cable is my only pet peeve.
Thank you for purchasing the E3000 by simply trusting us. Greatly appreciated! It is the best thing for us as the product maker to know that our creation has successfully brought smile to our customers.

Pretty sure it was the other way around. E2000 is a bit more treble friendly with the direct upgrade path being the E4000. E3000 is a bigger sound with thicker note weight--the direct upgrade path being the E5000.
Yes, you are very right, E3000 does has more bass than E2000. Actually E3000 was first born by applying the exact same tuning of the D8000 headphones. Many have been impressed by its sound quality especially at the price point, but there were some minority who wish to have slightly less bass. Since there is such a request, we have decided to bring out E2000 which has less bass but better clarity at mid and high.

Anyone knows if the E3000C or E2000C is better for FPS gaming? I'm thinking of getting the model with the microphone for that...
E500! Too bad it does not have a microphone :p

Just ordered a pair of E3000C...
Thank you and we wish you have more fun in gaming!
 
Final Stay updated on Final at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://snext-final.com/en/
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Final Audio

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What I have learnt from this hobby: money won't buy you better sound. The E3000 is one of the cheapest and hands down the best IEM I ever heard, even comparing to big dogs like M9.
All in all, I don't really understand why certain chi-fi IEMs are hyped to death (looking at you BLON), while I can barely see any mainstream reviewers even mentioning the E3000... Maybe the E3000 is tuned only for my ears :)
If final will ever produce an upgraded E3000 with more sturdy / better / replacable cable, that would be an instant buy for me.

I'm a bit worried that Final will push only B and A lines which are mostly mids/treble detail centric :frowning2: Hope they won't forget about the bass which is equally important in music and necessary to give you emotions.
What a huge compliment. Thank you!
I guess that is the reason for the E3000 to be the biggest monthly sales in quantity among all Final products.

B and A are simply products with different concepts. We still have many ideas in our sleeves. Time will tell.

Hi @HuoYuanJia Thank you so much for the detailed review, gorgeous photos and so much studies into graphs and confirmation with actual listening.
We are very glad that the A8000 has brought a new listening experience to you.

"Nowadays, I believe the Japanese brand from S’NEXT wants to simply be recognized as final (with a lowercase f) ", haha, not many people actually notice this tiny little detail.

Hi guys,

Is it possible to re-cable e3000 ?
Under the hand of pros, everything is possible. However, we would not recommend it because it will void the 2-year-warranty.
 
Final Stay updated on Final at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://snext-final.com/en/
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bhima

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Thanks for making the comparison between the Flares Pro 2HD and the Final E5000. I currently have the Final E5000 and am loving them for casual listening and listening while working. I EQed the bass down quite a bit (about 7dB at the peak) in a U shaped curve since I find the default signature too warm.

I was curious about the Flares Pro 2HD since I remember trying the original Flares Pros and thinking that the bass was spectacular. While the bass on the Final E5000 is quite good, I do wish it was a bit tighter and more textured. The original Flares Pro had too much treble for me however, and I read that the 2HD has less treble and more mids (which sounds like my cup of tea). Interested in trying them out, but I do wish they had a removable cable. The Pro cable did feel quite rubbery and flimsy for an expensive IEM - I'm not sure why they haven't improved this yet.
The Flares Pro 2HD has very tight, punchy bass. It is definitely more refined than the E5000. Its still possibly a few dB too much if you want something closer to neutral, but personally, these headphones have the best bass balance I've heard in a headphone--though my taste is towards a slight bass bump, but not so much it bleeds into the lower-midrange. The treble is well controlled here. I'm prone to noticing sibilance, and these have none of it, even on tracks I listen to with relatively shrill/prominent string instruments. The mids are well represented here as well--more forward and revealing than the E5000. IMO the Flares Pro 2 HD are a direct upgrade to the E5000. But that upgrade does come at a cost, and one I'm not currently willing to bear.

Agreed on the cable. I hold these things like I'm holding gold leaf. The cable will eventually short imo in like 2 years, whereas the Final cable feels really sturdy (possibly a bit too heavy, but that's the give and take).

EDIT: Anyone else here basically only like these bullet shaped IEMs? I have never been able to get along with any of those Campfire-esque shaped IEMs. None of them fit my ears, or if they do, they require quite a bit of fiddling--just in time for someone to need my attention and I have to pull them out and start the fit process over again. This is why the Final E5000 and Flares were so compelling to me.
 
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Dicoy

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@Final Audio
Well, i just purchased e3k for 1 month, and when listening music, my right earphone sometimes has sound and sometime don't.
When listening, the cable must be straight, or else the sound is on and off.
 
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jnak00

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@Final Audio
Well, i just purchased e3k for 1 month, and when listening music, my right earphone sometimes has sound and sometime don't.
When listening, the cable must be straight, or else the sound is on and off.
If they are only 1 month old, just get them replaced under warranty
 
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Dicoy

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If they are only 1 month old, just get them replaced under warranty
I bought it via online store in indonesia,
Already message the store, and they need returned to them complete with the box.

Unfortunately, i threw the box away, so i can't claim the warranty.
I don't know that they just making up excuses or what.

I think get another e3k is better option.
 
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