[zilkhaw]

Looking forward to more impressions of the Final Audio E series. For some reason, Final Audio seems like a sleeper company, with some sort of magic and passion infused in the presentation of their IEMs. Hopefully these IEMs are better constructed internally than the F series.

Whats wrong with F series?

Also, diminishing returns is a thing man, a $300 IEM getting within 90% of a $1200 IEM isn't special. Would be nice though, but it is what it is

R&D and quality assurance is expensive and especially new technologies are not cheap I guess

 

[thisismyname]

Ah, the shop that I normally go it e-earphone because they have more item there and you can test any earphone or headphone you like.
Before I know about e-earphone, normally I went to Yodobashi Camera, but when testing higher-end earphone which is kept in the glass cabinets, those staff normally starring at you for the whole process.
C'mon, who can actually focus on the sound when you are treated like a criminal under surveillance?

When was your last time went to e-earphone? They just moved their 2nd-hand-purchasing section to a sub store and replace it with high-end headphone audition corner last year. That is heaven for me. All those high-end headphones under $10k that you can find in the world basically are there for you to try on. And, you can pair them with multiple famous amp if the request is made. The staff speaks English and he is so kind. But it also makes me suffer because I have no money to buy them Some times after trying those headphones, the staffs saw the smile on me and he would kindly ask me how I think about them and look at me with those eyes that expecting me to buy them which make me really embarrassed to say "I will consider that"

Nice tips on the genre selection! I have never used it before!

Last time I have been there should be 3 or 4 years ago. I have heard that some customer caused some trouble during their try out session and that's how some headphones not easily accessible and the staff monitoring...

I don't know there's an English speaking staff in e-earphone, as I could and would love to talk to them with Japanese, they are kind to help.

Most earphones, headphones and equipment could be tried out here in Hong Kong, but Yodobashi and e-earphone do provide a more relax environment for audition. I appreciate the culture in Japan - customer and staff trust and respect each other, so that most of the equipment could be auditioned freely, hope that they would keep this...

 

[zilkhaw]

Last time I have been there should be 3 or 4 years ago. I have heard that some customer caused some trouble during their try out session and that's how some headphones not easily accessible and the staff monitoring...

I don't know there's an English speaking staff in e-earphone, as I could and would love to talk to them with Japanese, they are kind to help.

Most earphones, headphones and equipment could be tried out here in Hong Kong, but Yodobashi and e-earphone do provide a more relax environment for audition. I appreciate the culture in Japan - customer and staff trust and respect each other, so that most of the equipment could be auditioned freely, hope that they would keep this...

Ahah ic. I din know that you are from Hongkong. Isnt there an event coming somewhere around 3rd week of March.
Btw I just looked at a Twitter. Final is collaborating with Yodobashi Yokohama next month for Tane assembly session. Final has been holding these kind of events sometimes but I have yet to try it out. Considering to join it, a little bit too far away though. But it looks fun to have a special edition of Final product.

 

[frapp2latte]

Hi, if anyone's looking to buy a Piano Forte X-CC, I have one for sale. They're great and would make a unique addition to your collection. DM me anytime.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-final-audio-piano-forte-x-cc.900102/

 

[thisismyname]

Ahah ic. I din know that you are from Hongkong. Isnt there an event coming somewhere around 3rd week of March.
Btw I just looked at a Twitter. Final is collaborating with Yodobashi Yokohama next month for Tane assembly session. Final has been holding these kind of events sometimes but I have yet to try it out. Considering to join it, a little bit too far away though. But it looks fun to have a special edition of Final product.

Not sure about the event in late of March. It's quite fun to have such collaboration, as well as the assembly session, but time is so little to listen to so many headphones, usually 1 or 2 are in good condition, others need to burn in again...

I only interested in Final D6000, E8000, Sony Z1r lately, see when I could get a try on these

 

[mashuto]

Looking forward to more impressions of the Final Audio E series. For some reason, Final Audio seems like a sleeper company, with some sort of magic and passion infused in the presentation of their IEMs. Hopefully these IEMs are better constructed internally than the F series.

Also, diminishing returns is a thing man, a $300 IEM getting within 90% of a $1200 IEM isn't special. Would be nice though, but it is what it is

That was a response to me, giving a comparison between the E5000 and Campfire Atlas. I was guessing about the number to begin with, but I also agree that with diminishing returns, 90% isnt a crazy thing, I own others in the price range that technically can easily reach 90% of things double or triple their price, or even more. Going up to higher end stuff is all about playing in the margins, and I think that the mid-fi arena can produce most of the quality of higher end stuff, but with higher end stuff you get that small edge and are paying for tuning.

So while the 90% number by itself might not be anything special, I still find the E5000 to definitely be something special. They are tuned in a way that I just absolutely love. Its just such a natural, big, lush, full sound. And for it to come in such a small package is great. Whatever they have done with these, they just really hit the sweet spot for me. And with such a smooth sound, and small form factor, I feel like I can wear them all day long with no real discomfort. And thats not really something I have found often, especially not something that really ticks all my checkboxes in terms of sound. I do wish the cable was a bit less microphonic as I would prefer to wear them down, but the hooks are fine. And they dont isolate the best and leak sound a bit, but those drawbacks arent really big deals for my use cases.

And I agree, final audio has felt like a bit of a sleeper to me. I think maybe due to me not really wanting to invest in higher end stuff without a removable cable (though I dont really swap cables ever, more concerned about breaking) and that final seemed to be mostly focused on either crazy high end stuff or BA's while I much prefer DD's for their low end presentation. But there is definitely some magic about the E5000 to me, to the point that if I had to swap my atlas for these, I think I would be completely satisfied. I cant speak about internal construction, but the build quality on the E5000 seems quite excellent from what I can tell, and I would easily put them on par with the atlas for build quality.

 

[PopZeus]

@WhatToChoose I'm aware of diminishing returns. I'm also aware that technical sound quality isn't the only thing that matters when it comes to IEMs. So while getting a $300 IEM to sound like ~90% of a $1000 IEM isn't "special" in and of itself (I think I said it was a solid win for Final Audio, which it is), being able to get that audio quality plus all the other stuff that fits my very specific criteria does make a real find actually much harder to come by.

ETA: Also, there is a slightly different way of interpreting that whole 90% number. I was thinking that maybe it could mean it sounds like around 90% of a $1000 IEM on top of what a $300 IEM already sounds like. Since these numbers are largely arbitrary, that is one way of looking at someone's take while taking into account those diminishing returns. Either way, good on Final for punching above their price while also doing it with a single dynamic driver, and a warm, natural tuning. I'm looking forward to enjoying my E4000.

 

[Wyville]

@WhatToChoose I'm aware of diminishing returns. I'm also aware that technical sound quality isn't the only thing that matters when it comes to IEMs. So while getting a $300 IEM to sound like ~90% of a $1000 IEM isn't "special" in and of itself (I think I said it was a solid win for Final Audio, which it is), being able to get that audio quality plus all the other stuff that fits my very specific criteria does make a real find actually much harder to come by.

ETA: Also, there is a slightly different way of interpreting that whole 90% number. I was thinking that maybe it could mean it sounds like around 90% of a $1000 IEM on top of what a $300 IEM already sounds like. Since these numbers are largely arbitrary, that is one way of looking at someone's take while taking into account those diminishing returns. Either way, good on Final for punching above their price while also doing it with a single dynamic driver, and a warm, natural tuning. I'm looking forward to enjoying my E4000.

To be honest, I don't think the % are all that useful and the Final E-series is a great example of that. I have some really high-end gear, I have reviewed even higher end gear and yet I love the E-series. Not because they can get to x% of $xxxx IEMs in terms of technical performance, but because Final have made excellent signatures that are incredibly coherent and well-balanced. I think I even wrote it in my review that while they are not technically the most impressive IEMs, I just completely forget about it when I am listening to my music. That, to me, is what is really impressive about the E-series. That ability to engage me with my music. It is still down to personal preferences as well, but for many the E-series are an excellent choice.

 

[PopZeus]

To be honest, I don't think the % are all that useful and the Final E-series is a great example of that. I have some really high-end gear, I have reviewed even higher end gear and yet I love the E-series. Not because they can get to x% of $xxxx IEMs in terms of technical performance, but because Final have made excellent signatures that are incredibly coherent and well-balanced. I think I even wrote it in my review that while they are not technically the most impressive IEMs, I just completely forget about it when I am listening to my music. That, to me, is what is really impressive about the E-series. That ability to engage me with my music. It is still down to personal preferences as well, but for many the E-series are an excellent choice.

I agree. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like as much as they can offer, but I’m not getting all caught up in ranking the technical performance above all else. If I was, I’d probably be obsessed with whatever latest multi-BA IEM everyone was talking about. It was coming to the realization that picking the right IEM for me was about a whole bunch of other things on top of base technical sound quality that led me to the E4000. Things like coherence across the FR, a smooth musicality, and tuning that has articulate, deep bass along with natural, full mids, and a relaxed but not jagged or too recessed treble. And to get all that without the use of an EQ, which was my hope with the E4000.

In my post, I was more reacting to WhatToChoose acting as if no one had ever heard of the law of diminishing returns before. Lol.

 

[rustyvinyl]

For me, e4000 won't wow u with the first listen.....it is simply just very very musical.... I find myself listening to the complete album instead of skipping tracks frequently and for longer periods of time than other iems.

 

[PopZeus]

For me, e4000 won't wow u with the first listen.....it is simply just very very musical.... I find myself listening to the complete album instead of skipping tracks frequently and for longer periods of time than other iems.

This is EXACTLY why I got into this hobby in the first place. I’m a big music fan first and the gear is just there to get me closer to my music collection. I knew when everyone was describing the E4000 as musical with a natural timbre that I was in the right place. Then I noticed I was EQing my current favorite IEM (MEE Planamic) to match the E4000’s FR, and it made the decision to jump in too easy.

Tbh, I tend to find I don’t have much in common with audio objectivists and their obsession over specs over musicality. Specs matter but only to a point.

 

[mashuto]

To be honest, I don't think the % are all that useful and the Final E-series is a great example of that. I have some really high-end gear, I have reviewed even higher end gear and yet I love the E-series. Not because they can get to x% of $xxxx IEMs in terms of technical performance, but because Final have made excellent signatures that are incredibly coherent and well-balanced. I think I even wrote it in my review that while they are not technically the most impressive IEMs, I just completely forget about it when I am listening to my music. That, to me, is what is really impressive about the E-series. That ability to engage me with my music. It is still down to personal preferences as well, but for many the E-series are an excellent choice.

Yea I hesitated giving a number when I made the comparison because it was at best a guess and at worse totally meaningless. I just thought that in comparison to the atlas, it really does feel like it actually gets very close in terms of performance, even with its different (though similar) sound signature.

And I absolutely agree, the e5000 is incredibly coherent and balanced and is a real joy to listen to. And to me, getting joy out of my headphones is way more important than being able to retrieve the tiniest details out of every single piece of music. So I threw a number out, but I also made sure to state very clearly that while technically they arent quite a match for the atlas, in terms of the joy I get listening to them, they absolutely do match, and thats pretty great considering the whole package you get, especially at the price point.

 

[Wyville]

Yea I hesitated giving a number when I made the comparison because it was at best a guess and at worse totally meaningless. I just thought that in comparison to the atlas, it really does feel like it actually gets very close in terms of performance, even with its different (though similar) sound signature.

And I absolutely agree, the e5000 is incredibly coherent and balanced and is a real joy to listen to. And to me, getting joy out of my headphones is way more important than being able to retrieve the tiniest details out of every single piece of music. So I threw a number out, but I also made sure to state very clearly that while technically they arent quite a match for the atlas, in terms of the joy I get listening to them, they absolutely do match, and thats pretty great considering the whole package you get, especially at the price point.

That was how I read it as well, just an arbitrary number that simply gives an indication that the two are close. My post wan't intended as a criticism either, more in a general sense that numbers should not be taken too seriously. Ultimately it is about music perception and that is where not just the technical performance of IEMs come into play, but biology and psychology as well. I believe Final published a rather interesting article about that as well.

 

[zilkhaw]

That was how I read it as well, just an arbitrary number that simply gives an indication that the two are close. My post wan't intended as a criticism either, more in a general sense that numbers should not be taken too seriously. Ultimately it is about music perception and that is where not just the technical performance of IEMs come into play, but biology and psychology as well. I believe Final published a rather interesting article about that as well.

Personally, I think the sound is very subjective. The sound you hear might not be totally the same as the sound I hear due to a different age, ear canal shape. Even 2 earphone with exact frequency response sounds differently if their drivers are different. Thus numbers sometimes cannot actually represent the beauty of sound.

It is just like a picture. We cannot actually describe the picture with an accurate number system that everyone can understand the beauty. And eventually, human beings start to judge art with money which is very sad.

 

[Wyville]

Personally, I think the sound is very subjective. The sound you hear might not be totally the same as the sound I hear due to a different age, ear canal shape. Even 2 earphone with exact frequency response sounds differently if their drivers are different. Thus numbers sometimes cannot actually represent the beauty of sound.

It is just like a picture. We cannot actually describe the picture with an accurate number system that everyone can understand the beauty. And eventually, human beings start to judge art with money which is very sad.

Completely agree. Music is something that is inherently and fundamentally linked to emotion and our hearing depends on anatomy, physiology, age and even our mood/psychological state. That is why I think it is a really good idea to have multiple IEMs with different signatures, which I guess explains why I find this hobby so expensive.