[ninaraduga]

  Have anyone tried putting sleeves on piano forte? What was the result?

I do not advise. Piano Forte is specially designed to be worn in the ears without any tips. The sound picture is distorted when you listen Piano Forte with tips.

 

[unknownguardian]

 

the case looks really nice. here's my poor man imitation.'
 

 

[Jalo]

Here is the Frequency Chart for the Lab 2 directly from Final Audio.
 
 

 
 
Below quote comes from Final Audio:
 
"You will find two curving line (Yellow and Pink) on the chart, it means the difference caused by the position of LAB 02 in ear canal.
In general, the yellow curving line is user wear LAB02 in a recommended position in ear canal."
 
This is consistent with my own testing where the low end extends down to 20 Hz.  From 50 Hz down to 20 Hz there is a slight drop of 8 db. From 50 Hz to 6 kHz is relatively stable and I like that. On the upper range, there is a dip at the 10 khz and it kinds of roll off slightly past 20 khz but regain some ground until after 40 khz.  So it is a full range headphone with room to eq on the sub bass to ones liking.  I really like the treble also as it is not sibilant but bright enough to give me that sparkle and smile.  But of course the frequency chart will not show you the sound stage and the awesome tuning. Still totally enamor with the sound, Ces la vie, ces la mor.

 

[bidn]

  Here is the Frequency Chart for the Lab 2 directly from Final Audio.
 
 

 
 
Below quote comes from Final Audio:
 
"You will find two curving line (Yellow and Pink) on the chart, it means the difference caused by the position of LAB 02 in ear canal.
In general, the yellow curving line is user wear LAB02 in a recommended position in ear canal."
 
This is consistent with my own testing where the low end extends down to 20 Hz.  From 50 Hz down to 20 Hz there is a slight drop of 8 db. From 50 Hz to 6 kHz is relatively stable and I like that. On the upper range, there is a dip at the 10 khz and it kinds of roll off slightly past 20 khz but regain some ground until after 40 khz.  So it is a full range headphone with room to eq on the sub bass to ones liking.  I really like the treble also as it is not sibilant but bright enough to give me that sparkle and smile.  But of course the frequency chart will not show you the sound stage and the awesome tuning. Still totally enamor with the sound, Ces la vie, ces la mor.

 
Thank you so much, Jalo, for sharing this exclusive information!
Excellent FR curve, given these are in-ears!!
 
I am the more eager to receive my Lab 2 (I should receive them before the end of next week).
 
BTW do you know how if there is a way of hearing the sound according to the pink curve?
 
2016 was really a fantastic audiophile year with two breakthroughs: the Utopia and I already assume also the Lab 2.
(BTW if I were you, I would not pass on the Utopia, there is no reference and realism like them,
I personally listen mostly with headphones, I could't do without headphones)

 

[Jalo]

  BTW do you know how if there is a way of hearing the sound according to the pink curve?
 
2016 was really a fantastic audiophile year with two breakthroughs: the Utopia and I already assume also the Lab 2.
(BTW if I were you, I would not pass on the Utopia, there is no reference and realism like them,
I personally listen mostly with headphones, I could't do without headphones)

You will see when you receive your Lab 2.  If you just let it rest in your ear that is your yellow line, I believe the pink line is more like if you hold the Lab2 to your ear canal like a regular iems, the sound becomes much more pronounce.  I am not giving up on the Utopia yet.  I have listen to them at least four to five times.  But I am very curious about your impression after you receive your Lab2.

 

[bidn]

thank you,
would you have an idea about how much burn-in would optimize the LAB 2?

 

[Jalo]

thank you,
would you have an idea about how much burn-in would optimize the LAB 2?

About 100 hours.

 

[bidn]

 

 

ninaraduga, would you mind providing a general difference between the VIII and the IX? I like the IX's finish better, but I'm interested in the differences in bass performance.

 

 
Personally, I do not hear a difference in bass between 8, 9 and 10. The main difference is the midrange. The higher we climb in this series, the more extensive middle frequencies we hear. A wider scene, volume, space. The bass does not change at all. 30-100 Hz is absent. 100-200 Hz at a normal level, approximately as in Etymotic ER-4S. Bass guitar is almost not audible. The drum can be heard very well. Headphones are not exactly for bassheads)

 
Yes, what changes wonderfully is the soundstage but above all the depth and angular imaging. You can pinpoint from which depth and at which angle sounds come from (e.g. if the singers or instruments are spread, or if different persons in the audience whistle, shout, this out of your head. This is unique.
 
I also agree that the bass does not change, 
however on my  AK240 :
- without EQ they have : 32 Hz = 0 , 45 Hz very weak, 63 Hz about half, so not an absence below 100Hz
(- with EQ they have 32 = 0, 45 = half, 63 Hz full)
 
This is actually great given that these are IEMs,
- the IE 800 does not have much more
- the AKG K3003 has quite less bass,
- and the super expensive JH Harvey Layla has zero at 100 Hz (the only one in my collection that I should not have bought...)

 
BTW I just did the same test with the FI-BA-SS:
without EQ: 20 Hz = 0,  32 = weak, 45 =about full
with EQ: 20 Hz =0 (or seems to), 32 = full
 
So with the Fi-BA-SS you can get about 30 Hz deeper
(but you loose the huge stoundstage and above all huge imaging of the PF, I still  prefer the sound of the PF,
but again in favor of the FI-BA-SS you win a practical, stable, "normal" fit.
The FI-BA-SS is much more like a typical IEM, the PF completely atypical and then literally "extraordinary")

 

[Jalo]

I have just compared the frequency chart between the Lab 2 and the Utopia. The Utopia can clearly goes down to 10 Hz as oppose to 20 Hz for the Lab 2. But what is amazing is that on the upper end, the Utopia stops at 20 KHz whereas the Lab 2 goes to beyond 40 KHz. I understand that most of us do not hear even at 20 KHz, but the fact that it can produce up to 40 KHz is pretty amazing. Also besides a narrow dip at 10.5 KHz and past 20 KHz, the Lab 2 is really much more stable when compare to the Utopia from from 6-7 KHz on.

On the lower end, the drop from 50 Hz to 20 Hz is steeper on the Lab 2 than the Utopia making the sub bass slightly less prominent. However, on listening, the Lab 2 has very good mid bass, I will describe it slightly punchy, have bite, and good PRaT. I find the Lab 2 is pretty fast, for instance, a Spanish Guitar piece "Malagueña" where a few flamenco passages were fast and clear and life like. Very mesmerizing. After three weeks I am still at awe at the sound of the Lab2. It's immersion factor seems to be higher than that of the Utopia when compare to memory. But Rumina and Bidn will have to comment on that as both have the Utopia. I also like them to compare the sound stage for me. I still cannot wrap my brain around how large and open the sound stage is. I have the Campfire's Andromeda which has a pretty good sound stage, but the Lab 2 definitely has a bigger sound stage. I also have the HD800, no the Lab 2 is not HD800 big, but the Lab2 is open and true to life making it so much more fun to listen to. Just the fact that an iem can even be comparing to one of the best headphones is unbelievable in and of itself.

 

[jwbrent]

I have just compared the frequency chart between the Lab 2 and the Utopia. The Utopia can clearly goes down to 10 Hz as oppose to 20 Hz for the Lab 2. But what is amazing is that on the upper end, the Utopia stops at 20 KHz whereas the Lab 2 goes to beyond 40 KHz. I understand that most of us do not hear even at 20 KHz, but the fact that it can produce up to 40 KHz is pretty amazing. Also besides a narrow dip at 10.5 KHz and past 20 KHz, the Lab 2 is really much more stable when compare to the Utopia from from 6-7 KHz on.

On the lower end, the drop from 50 Hz to 20 Hz is steeper on the Lab 2 than the Utopia making the sub bass slightly less prominent. However, on listening, the Lab 2 has very good mid bass, I will describe it slightly punchy, have bite, and good PRaT. I find the Lab 2 is pretty fast, for instance, a Spanish Guitar piece "Malagueña" where a few flamenco passages were fast and clear and life like. Very mesmerizing. After three weeks I am still at awe at the sound of the Lab2. It's immersion factor seems to be higher than that of the Utopia when compare to memory. But Rumina and Bidn will have to comment on that as both have the Utopia. I also like them to compare the sound stage for me. I still cannot wrap my brain around how large and open the sound stage is. I have the Campfire's Andromeda which has a pretty good sound stage, but the Lab 2 definitely has a bigger sound stage. I also have the HD800, no the Lab 2 is not HD800 big, but the Lab2 is open and true to life making it so much more fun to listen to. Just the fact that an iem can even be comparing to one of the best headphones is unbelievable in and of itself.

I am so envious. 

 

[VoodooSamurai]

  I do not advise. Piano Forte is specially designed to be worn in the ears without any tips. The sound picture is distorted when you listen Piano Forte with tips.

Yep, tried it, and end result, not good. Fits better, but loses its magic, and nuance.

 

[bidn]

Hi there,
 
I have listened to the LAB II for 1 1/2 h right out of the box.
 
At this point, without burn-in, I find a fantastic achievement, 
I rank at position #2 in my collection, after the Utopia.
 
Some quick impressions and comparisons
(mostly from memory, although I have been listening comparitevely afterwards to the Sonorous X, HD 800 and Utopia):
comparing uniquely quickly to the TOTL PF, Sonorous , Utopia and HD 800
 
 
1. not the kind of sound I had expected...
 
I mean I expected a higher version of the top PF with their unique and very special "mystical" touch,
but the LAB II does  not sound mystical to me like top PF (and the top Sonorous also do to a lesser extent than the PF),
instead a neutral and very detailled (analytical) sound,, I would say "reference".
And this although the LAB II has at least as much of the huge soundstage and imaging of the top PF.
I guess that special mystical touch had to do with a warm sound
and a special FR modulation (a bit dark, and some strange unique non-flat FR).
here the FR sounds reference flat.
 
I have to go for a while,
I will keep posting many more impressions over an hour or so hopefully.
write to you soon,
bidn

 

[bidn]

following (reminder: these are rough impressions, without burn-in)
(IEM listened to with AK240, headphone to Pioneer U05 Sabre 2x 9016 --> iFi iCAN Pro)

2. detail
3. purity, cleaness
4. speed
For all three I find it excellent
I would say in the order of the HD 800 or of the AKG K812 ("analytical", very detailled)
so clearly better than the warmer sound of the top Sonorous and even more of the top PF
Yet no way a match for the utlimate detail, purity and speed of the Utopia

5. punch
excellent
definitely much much more punchy than the HD 800,
more than the top PF, than the top Sonorous
I guess at least as much as the K812,
still no match for incredible punch of the Utopia.


6. tonal balance
I mean these relative feeling of the sound being dark, neutral, bright
It seems neutral, like the Utopia
so re. the "dark side", unlike the Sonorous X and top PF (little dark), VIII (darker, I would say moderately dark)
and re. the "bright side", unlike the HD 800 (bright) and K812 (even brighter).
This quite an achievement because detailed HP achieve this at the expense of having a bright sound,
making them unsuitable for long session of listening to metal music.
so : excellent


7. bass
what I can hear, very roughly :

....................................20 Hz..........32 Hz.........45 Hz......... 63 Hz
PF (all of them).............0.................0...............about 0........about 1/2
PF with EQ...................0..................0..............about 1/2.....about full
LAB II............................0.................0..............1/2................about full
LAB II with EQ...............0................0...............about full.....full
Focal Sphear.................0.................weak........about full....full
Focal sphar w EQ..........0................about full...full
FI-BA-SS.......................0................weak.........about full.....full
FI-BA-SS w EQ.............0................about full...full
Sonorous X, VIII............very weak..1/2............full
HD 800..........................very weak..1/2............full
K812..............................very weak..1/2............full
Utopia............................about full....full

So compared to the PF the win is only about 10 Hz not so much,
Jalo, re. Final FR curve, it is a log scale (dB), not linear (e.g a decrease of 10dB would mean 50% decrease in SPL)
so even if the curve goes until 20 Hz, it still already inaudible around 40 Hz.
the FI-BA-SS goes about 20 Hz deeper than the LAB II.
This is the real weak spot of the LAB II
10 Hz better than PF, but really far from being good enough (still way much better than JH Harvey Layla).



8. width of sounstage
huge, at least as much as PF
There the LAB II clearly bests the Utopia.
HD 800 seems wider

9. depth of soundstage
again huge at least as much as PF,
but so seems the Utopia re. depth,
difficult to compare quickly for me


10. angular imaging
11. depth imaging
clearly superior to PF here which are themselves in turn clearly superior to HD 800 here.
comparing with the Utopia which as also a super precise imaging,
I don't know again, not easy for me to compare quickly like this.

12. practical aspects :
similar to special fit of the PF,
but the LAB feels much lighter (holes = less metal), do not fall so easily
I could not see any sign allowing to distinguish the L and R sides.


Conclusion : fantastic IEMs
among all of Final's product I own this is by far the best,
and it bests most headphones.
I wish it had had the PF's strong mystical coloration,
but I can't have it both ways: detail, neutrality, etc.
It does not have the incredible realism of the Utopia,
but goes in the same direction, a huge achievement.

Definitely no money wasted here, I am very happy having found and bought them,
thank you for your recommendations and hints, Jola and Rumina

 

[jwbrent]

Thank you for your observations. Maybe one day ... :rolleyes:

 

[rumina]

hello bidn
 
great you have them and like the sound, when you know the piano forte x it's a little shock to hear what is possible with the lab 2, a great archievement.
 
the cable is marked for left, has a little knob, look at this picture:
 

 
and i have received the balanced cable a week ago, it's the same cable with a balanced 2.5mm trrs plug, as reference a picture with the part number:
 

 
have fun exploring you new earphone