[ianmedium]

Chris,
Your thoughts abut the HD800 is something I come back to time and time again.

I have now heard them through numerous amps both tube and SS and though I can appreciate their technical prowess they simply do not stir me emotionally and for me one can have all the details and technical prowess in the world but if there is no emotion then whats the point?


I think this is why I am loving the T5P's as I feel not only do they extract detail almost as well as the HD800's they combine that with emotion, especially when driven by tubes, funny how this is yet another headphone lambasted by a certain headphone reviewer :rolleyes:

But again, unlike that brigade I am not saying the HD800's are wrong, just that they do not engage me, others may and do love them and like all these things it is so important to audition if possible first.
I am glad I did with the T5P's as if I had believed that reviewer I would never have bought them and now, those with my PF's have, along with my Amp and 801 brought me the most musical enjoyment in over 35 years of having systems to replay music!

I have now identified what I call " the usual suspects" here on headfi and as a rule just ignore their thoughts or reviews as they simply do not jell with mine and it is why when I review something here I always make a point of saying to read other reviews to get a balanced perspective as how I enjoy music may not be how they do!

I do have to say though something I have said before about this hobby. There are two camps, camp one listens to HIFi, camp two listens to music and I am firmly, as you are and most of us who have spent our money on FAD products, in that second camp!

 

[Ridleyguy]

Yes, listening to music is all about personal preferences and not just technicalities.

 

[woodcans]

Quote:

 
It's not about the music for them. It's sad. But it's what floats their boat, to borrow the nomenclature. I would rather an intense emotional connection to my music over knowing what I am hearing is dead-accurate yet lifeless.

 
Me too.
 
 

 
I am trying to decide if there's any value in my new HD800 at the moment. It's technically great, but they don't do much for me right now. I'd rather listen to my Heaven V, to be honest. 

 
I sold mine some time ago for that very reason. But some grumpy 'ol sparrow loves 'em. Maybe they need a certain synergy with upstream components that I never found.

 

[BenF]

Quote:

Hah! Usually China is a lousy place to be a consumer but occasionally it is great. I have been looking for Sony hybrid tips so I can switch back and forth between my "James-amputation-mod" tips and the original. Sony Store? Sorry, don't carry those. Jaben? Not a chance... Then I was down today at the big Metro City Mall in heart of the Xujiahui shopping district - I call it the iPhone Mall because they have two hundred vendors selling the same Apple fare and accessory junk. 
 
There among all of the redundancy was a guy selling AKG and Beyer Headphones. (He even had the 3003.) When I asked him about Sony tips, he goes into the back and pulls out a bag. He tells me 'these aren't Sony but they are the same tips from the same factory. Sony only sells in sets whereas the factory sells us individual pairs'.
 
They are the same tips - not copies - exactly the same. Core density and colours, black sleeves, all spot-on. (Can you say 'grey market"? I knew you could. 

)  I not only got replacements for the two pairs that I had cut up, I also got another pair of my best size (greeny-white) with a second foam under-layer. I saw these on IEMs in the official Sony Store but never saw them on sale separately. These dual-layer Sony hybrids are fantastic with the Heaven VI.
 
Happy!

 
Are these the tips?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-EPEX10A-BLACK-Hybrid-Replacement-Earbud-Cusions-/200930754434?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item2ec867ff82
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-S-M-L-Hybrid-Replacement-Set-Eartips-Earbuds-for-Sony-XBA-MDR-DR-Series-/221232040677?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item3382750ae5
 
Swimsonny says that the MH1C tips are as good or slightly better - although that comparison was done for a different 
phone - Nail 2 V2.
Did anyone try the MH1C tips on Heaven VI?

 

[zilch0md]

Yes, to a much lesser degree than the PFs (which I don't own), I think that's why somewhat "veiled" headphones like the LCD-2 (relative to the LCD-3), and even more so, the HD-600, are effective at engaging the listener emotionally.  
 
Frankly, I sometimes find the stock stereo system in my Toyota to be more enjoyable, in the truest since of the word, complete with road and engine noise, than when I'm strapped into my Beyerdyanmic T1, besieged by "imperfections" that steal my focus.  Given that nearly all of us (to varying degrees) tend to analyze the treble region for separation and detail, and the bass region for extension, energy and control, the roll-offs inherent to the PF design apparently squelch those "distractions" almost completely.  
 
In short, I think the PFs stifle our analytical obsessions - allowing the right hemisphere to crawl out from underneath the left!   

 
 

 
Mike

 

[MuppetFace]

I don't personally find the Piano Fortes "accurate" as far as their overall tonal balance goes, but my entire point was that "accurate" and "high fidelity" aren't necessarily synonymous in audiophile culture. Inks brings up the term boutique, and I actually think that's a fairly apt descriptor for the niche that many audiophile headphones occupy. Take the "hi-fi sparkle" in many flagship headphones that gives the illusion of increased clarity and detail: it's relatively far from accurate, and it's also fairly unnatural to my ears. In other words, the hi-fi designator in audiophile culture seems to be directed more toward facets like detail retrieval and initial wow factor in presentation rather than tonal balance and timbre. More linear sounding stuff in my experience tends to be in the pro audio niche or is marketed as a studio monitor, and in those cases you just don't see the hi-fi buzzword tossed around. Heck, companies are even marketing them as entry level products compared to their high end stuff more and more these days (see Heir 4.A versus 8.A --- the former is more accurate, but the later is marketed as their TOTL model and as being higher fidelity; this isn't just an exception either). My whole point is that the presence of coloration in and of itself isn't going to exclude something from being classified as high-end audiophile gear, and it has surprisingly little to do with faithfulness to the original recording. This is something I've gleaned from my time spend down the rabbit hole.
 
As for the PFs, I haven't really said one way or another whether I think they're high fidelity or not, because frankly I don't care. I can imagine their being construed by some listeners as muddy due to the rolled off highs and thick, blanketed sound; yet I also hear plenty of detail in the mids despite it not being more overtly presented. The PFs aren't about fidelity for me however, but rather a purely emotional response. I don't find them transparent, I find them obtuse. Still that doesn't necessarily preclude them from sounding "natural" in certain respects. As I said in that article I wrote on the Heaven V, FAD isn't about faithfulness to any particular recording but rather faithfulness to their personal understanding of sound experience. For FAD the act of listening always occurs in a specific context, and one cannot divorce music from that context. Vintage horn speakers are a certain novelty, particularly when the experience of listening to them is conveyed in an earphone, but by that same token there are certain virtues that come from such a presentation. FAD---and some other strange individuals---evidently feel that there is a "natural" quality to their timbre when it comes to reproducing specific instruments. In that sense it's all about the mids. Which goes back to a point I made many posts ago: how natural these sound will largely depend, I think, on whether you gel with FAD's philosophy but also the sort of music one listens to with them. If you'd constantly butting up against those walls in the lows and highs, then it's going to be more noticeably off verses other more mid-centric stuff. Additionally there's a spatial virtuosity to these earphones that, to my ears, is the most "natural" quality about them. They convey a hall-like space with an almost eerie aplomb, so I think they really do lend a particularly convincing air to highly atmospheric music.
 
It's rather humorous to me that I've gone on for so long about this, as I've been rather vocal about the PFs sounding alien to me much of the time. It's why I like them as much as I do, after all. Yet plenty of other more linear sounding gear sounds unnatural to me, so while there is something to be said for correlating pleasant sound to FR without too many extreme peaks and valleys, I also think gear being less colored is no indicator it's going to sound any more "correct" than more overly colored stuff often times.

 

[vwinter]

At the risk of plainly misunderstanding how you meant obtuse, did you by any chance mean opaque? I feel like you definitely meant obtuse but my brain not exactly understanding how you meant it and the resulting connection is making me think you meant opaque...

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

At the risk of plainly misunderstanding how you meant obtuse, did you by any chance mean opaque? I feel like you definitely meant obtuse but my brain not exactly understanding how you meant it and the resulting connection is making me think you meant opaque...

 
I meant it as a play on words. Obtuse can mean blunted or rounded off at the edges which goes back to the PFs being mid-centric, but it also has the connotation of dimwittedness. A nod perhaps to music_4321's self-deprecating K3003 insults.

 

[vwinter]

I meant it as a play on words. Obtuse can mean blunted or rounded off at the edges which goes back to the PFs being mid-centric, but it also has the connotation of dimwittedness. A nod perhaps to music_4321's self-deprecating K3003 insults.

Ahhh gotcha. I understood the first part then. Yay me. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

I don't personally find the Piano Fortes "accurate" as far as their overall tonal balance goes, but my entire point was that "accurate" and "high fidelity" aren't necessarily synonymous in audiophile culture. Inks brings up the term boutique, and I actually think that's a fairly apt descriptor for the niche that many audiophile headphones occupy.

 
"Boutique" seems to be the new term Inks has decided to use now for the PFs (and presumably also for the 1601s). The previous terms he used were "crap" & "abominations". Would you, MF, also think that "crap and "abominations" are "fairly apt descriptors"?

 

[Ridleyguy]

I liked dimwittedness myself.

 

[music_4321]

MF stole that one from Fawlty Towers! (though, strictly speaking the term used there was "dimwit")
 

 

[Ridleyguy]

I didn't know that, but I loved Fawlty Towers.

 

[Ridleyguy]

To bring forward an even more opaque/obscure argument .... but hopefully not dimwitted. Has anyone considered the fact that most people do not have perfect pitch, and therefore hear musical notes differently to start with?

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

"Boutique" seems to be the new term Inks has decided to use now for the PFs (and presumably also for the 1601s). The previous terms he used were "crap" & "abominations". Would you, MF, also think that "crap and "abominations" are "fairly apt descriptors"?

 
I can think of a few "hi-fi" devices I'd describe as crap, abominations, or abominable crap. But that's neither here nor there.
 
For the sake of exposition, I'm not that familiar with Inks and his personal lexicon, so I'm really just going with my own understanding of how 'boutique' tends to be used among audiophiles: more or less a way of conveying that certain products are "highly specialized" or "cater to a niche" while adding a slight hint of preciousness or frivolity. Maybe even a hint of excess (as in the case of "boutique cables"). I think this is an apt descriptor for a lot of high-end audio, but I also don't think that's a bad thing necessarily.
 
Since my point was mainly that a good number of hi-fi products tend to have their own distinct coloration, I thought it was appropriate to borrow the term and repurpose it.