Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread

[vwinter]

To bring forward an even more opaque/obscure argument .... but hopefully not dimwitted. Has anyone considered the fact that most people do not have perfect pitch, and therefore hear musical notes differently to start with?

Doesn't that have more to do with being able to accurately differentiate musical notes than to just hear them?

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
I can think of a few "hi-fi" devices I'd describe as crap, abominations, or abominable crap. But that's neither here nor there.
 
For the sake of exposition, I'm not that familiar with Inks and his personal lexicon, so I'm really just going with my own understanding of how 'boutique' tends to be used among audiophiles: more or less a way of conveying that certain products are "highly specialized" or "cater to a niche" while adding a slight hint of preciousness or frivolity. Maybe even a hint of excess (as in the case of "boutique cables"). I think this is an apt descriptor for a lot of high-end audio, but I also don't think that's a bad thing necessarily.
 
Since my point was mainly that a good number of hi-fi products tend to have their own distinct coloration, I thought it was appropriate to borrow the term and repurpose it.

 
I see the term "boutique" pretty much the same way you (and others) seem to. I just felt, in this particular instance, having come across many posts by the same person, that "boutique" was the politically correct term for, er..."crap" & "abomination".

 

[Ridleyguy]

Yes, but I will defer to the musically trained among us to weigh in on the significance, if any, of not having perfect pitch in relation to evaluating headphones/IEMs, for example.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

To bring forward an even more opaque/obscure argument .... but hopefully not dimwitted. Has anyone considered the fact that most people do not have perfect pitch, and therefore hear musical notes differently to start with?

Quote:

Doesn't that have more to do with being able to accurately differentiate musical notes than to just hear them?

Quote:

Yes, but I will defer to the musically trained among us to weigh in on the significance, if any, of not having perfect pitch in relation to evaluating headphones/IEMs, for example.

 
Interesting thoughts indeed... and one of the aspects that now and again (still) makes this a truly unique thread.

Hmmm... perhaps a little unrelated, but I really don't believe that having (near) perfect pitch makes you more sensitive—or perhaps a more appropriate term here I'd use would be "responsive"—to music. I don't think being tone deaf necessarily makes you less sensitive / responsive to music, but it does make it (much) more difficult to 'participate' in several aspects of music and music making.

There are some aspects of music that really are a mystery to me. What is clear to me—to this day—is that music is the purest form of art.

 

[Inks]

Actually boutique is something Rin used to describe them who doesn't dislike these nearly as much as I do. I do think its a poor product passing as high/end due to price and exclusivity. These have rolled off ends, I wouldn't kid myself to think these are detailed overall. Because they are missing info and focus on integral midrange information is that you get that sound, which seems to have an appeal to users here but I wouldn't call hi-fi as was mentioned.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Interesting thoughts indeed... and one of the aspects that now and again (still) makes this a truly unique thread.

 
Well said, music! Now and again indeed... though lately it seems to be becoming more a case of "it used to..." or "once in a blue moon...".

 

[woodcans]

Quote:

Has anyone considered the fact that most people do not have perfect pitch, and therefore hear musical notes differently to start with?

 
 

Hmmm... perhaps a little unrelated, but I really don't believe that having (near) perfect pitch makes you more sensitive—or perhaps a more appropriate term here I'd use would be "responsive"—to music. I don't think being tone deaf necessarily makes you less sensitive / responsive to music, but it does make it (much) more difficult to 'participate' in several aspects of music and music making.

There are some aspects of music that really are a mystery to me. What is clear to me—to this day—is that music is the purest form of art.
 

 
 
I have horrible pitch. Can't sing a note or even remotely tune an instrument by ear. But I can detect quickly when  listening to others. FWIW.
 
Despite the above confession, my conclusion as well.
 
 
 
Quote:

 
Well said, music! Now and again indeed... though lately it seems to be becoming more a case of "it used to..." or "once in a blue moon...".

 
Since you've already patted yourself on the back, I don't have to. 

 

[ianmedium]

Well said, music! Now and again indeed... though lately it seems to be becoming more a case of "it used to..." or "once in a blue moon...".

Hear hear i say (and yes, spelling is intended!)

Having earned my living in an unusual way for the past thirteen years (the clue is in part of my forum name!!) I can say that there is so much more that is outside of the box than within it and whilst what is inside the box is relevant and important it is in my humble opinion what exists outside of the box that is where the true miracles of life take place.

For me SET's, PF's and other such equipment where their designers have used those natural but rare qualities, their heart, soul and spirit as well as their head, to design said objects is where I find lay the depths of true musical reproduction if one equates true to that which touches the heart, soul and spirit.

Having worked with a number of very fine musicians over the years I have yet to meet one that does not write and perform from those three places and it is that with which I wish to engage when listening!

 

[Ridleyguy]

I wanted to say that I have now bought 4 FAD models (one on the way) based on the main contributors to this thread's comments, and the general good spirit/ Karma (whatever you want to call it), of the thread. I didn't pay too much attention to the comments on the graphs, while I fully acknowledge they may be a deal breaker for others. I have not regretted any of my purchases of FAD products, and in fact, this has been one of my best experiences in this hobby.

If I may say so, you are (all) people with a passion for music, and I am very happy to have joined the FAD 'club' of very interesting people. I don't dismiss the comments of those who don't like some or all of the FAD line as being wrong, but I think even at the lower end of their price range, the Heaven IV, for example, is a great value for its price, and I am enjoying it and my TOTL FAD products immensely.

I do believe that the management of FAD, as MuppetFace and others have pointed out, does have a clear vision for what they want to achieve with their product line, and I applaud them for sticking with it, even though they may be sacrificing some mainstream popularity in doing so. It seems like the BA race in IEMs, for example, is looking a lot like the razor blades race! More is better.

 

[ianmedium]

Well said ridleyguy!

I must say that since getting the equipment I have now I have all but stopped looking at anything else, I think just the Terra player thread and the HM-901 thread and the threads associated with the equipment I use are the only ones I bother with now.

Muti driver IEM's and such hold absolutely no appeal as they just leave me cold as good as some are they for me have never made music like the PF's and T5P's I now own.

 

[woodcans]

Quote:

I wanted to say that I have now bought (3) FAD models (one on the way) based on the main contributors to this thread's comments, and the general good spirit/ Karma (whatever you want to call it), of the thread. .... I have not regretted any of my purchases of FAD products, and in fact, this has been one of my best experiences in this hobby.

If I may say so, you are (all) people with a passion for music, and I am very happy to have joined the FAD 'club' of very interesting people. I don't dismiss the comments of those who don't like some or all of the FAD line as being wrong...

 
x2 here. Well put, Ridley. 

 

[vwinter]

Quote:

 
Interesting thoughts indeed... and one of the aspects that now and again (still) makes this a truly unique thread.

Hmmm... perhaps a little unrelated, but I really don't believe that having (near) perfect pitch makes you more sensitive—or perhaps a more appropriate term here I'd use would be "responsive"—to music. I don't think being tone deaf necessarily makes you less sensitive / responsive to music, but it does make it (much) more difficult to 'participate' in several aspects of music and music making.

There are some aspects of music that really are a mystery to me. What is clear to me—to this day—is that music is the purest form of art.

 
As someone who feels connected to music, I want to agree. But, as I'm more innately a visual artist, I want to disagree. I am absolutely torn. Why music why?

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

 
Are these the tips?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-EPEX10A-BLACK-Hybrid-Replacement-Earbud-Cusions-/200930754434?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item2ec867ff82
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-S-M-L-Hybrid-Replacement-Set-Eartips-Earbuds-for-Sony-XBA-MDR-DR-Series-/221232040677?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item3382750ae5
 
Swimsonny says that the MH1C tips are as good or slightly better - although that comparison was done for a different 
phone - Nail 2 V2.
Did anyone try the MH1C tips on Heaven VI?

 
Interesting.
 
The first link are original Sony Hybrid tips in the exact package that I purchased at the Sony Store in Hong Kong. The replacement tips I bought yesterday are the same - just individual pairs.
 
The second link is not an original Sony product. It is impossible to be certain from the pictures but I think that they are an alternate product (copies), not grey market from the original factory.

 

[woodcans]

Quote:

 
As someone who feels connected to music, I want to agree. But, as I'm more innately a visual artist, I want to disagree. I am absolutely torn. Why music why?

 
 
I can't answer your question directly, however I am a visual being as well. Listening to music through my FAD phones brings about such images in my mind:
 
 
 

 
 
 
 

 

[up late]

i keep seeing talk here as soon as someone brings up a measurement that they're interested in the gear not the music, they can't make an emotional connection with music, they have no soul - yada yada. it's a rubbish argument and it makes you sound like a bunch of flat-earthers.

measurements are nothing to get defensive about. they're just a tool and no one in their right mind is going to say that you should rely on them instead of your ears when you're judging a phone. I gave the PFs a fair hearing and wasn't impressed. when I saw the frequency response measurements they lined up with what I'd heard. and I'm not the only one who's reacted to them in that way.

facts are the measurements show a mid-centric phone with very rolled off highs and lows and that's how they sound. they color fhe sound of recorded music in an unusual way and its polarising. some love it some don't. but understand that they aren't reproducing music recordings faithfully and afaik the goal of high fidelity sound has always been to be faithful to the recording. the PFs are more like the audio version of mind altering drugs and if you dig the effect then enjoy the trip man.

I love music and I didn't take to how the PFs were reinterpreting mine. apart from the frequency imbalance i thought the tonality sounded off. the fi-ba-ss did a better job imho. it sounded more accurate, faithful, true to the recording - in other words closer to high fidelity music reproduction.

I came to head fi find some great sounding phones. I didn't know what a headphone graph was but I do now and think they're useful because they're an objective reference for what we hear. you can use them or ignore them. they're not going to change how a phone sounds and they shouldn't influence if you like it or not but they might help you understand why a phone sounds the way it does and that can't be a bad thing. dissing measurements and lumping people who refer to them in their overall assessment of a phone into a group of soulless headphone geeks is pretty childish imho.

for me it's all about the music and it bugs me how some of you here act like you've got a mortgage on that - like you somehow have a special insight into the beauty of music just because you happen to dig some exotic Japanese phones that look gorgeous, sound interesting and measure badly, while thinking that it's entirely lost on the rest of us. that kind of elitist attitude strikes me as delusional and a bit pathetic tbh.

I keep coming back to this thread even though I don't own a FAD phone because it's an appreciation and discussion thread. some of you should try to accept that this is a headphone forum not a music appreciation society or an exclusive FAD club. so chances are there's going to be some critical comment about how even your precious FAD phones sound and measure.