[joseG86]

Law of diminishing returns is always there and you might find cheaper products that gives you similar or even better results for your tastes. The thing is if you'll be happy swapping the Nhd 30 for the D8K pros. You might end up missing some traits that the D8K pro gives you even considering that you are paying a very high amount for them.
That's something that you need to find out by yourself.

Can't agree more, I could live with my 100€'s Bose QC35 II lol but then you put on the D8KP and it's heaven

 

[hakunamakaka]

I have D8000 just recently delivered. A bit of mixed bag with these, definitely very suitable for longer sessions, but in my view Utopia tops it in terms of detail retrieval, impact, staging accuracy. I was expecting something in line as Final Audio A8000, but D8000 goes into opposite direction. Bass quality though is one of the best I've heard on any headphone, maybe a bit too much presence for my tastes. Let's see, usually headphones that don't show off at the beginning tend to stick around with me.

 

[adrianm]

I have D8000 just recently delivered. A bit of mixed bag with these, definitely very suitable for longer sessions, but in my view Utopia tops it in terms of detail retrieval, impact, staging accuracy. I was expecting something in line as Final Audio A8000, but D8000 goes into opposite direction. Bass quality though is one of the best I've heard on any headphone, maybe a bit too much presence for my tastes. Let's see, usually headphones that don't show off at the beginning tend to stick around with me.

Sounds like the D8k Pro might have been better suited for your taste.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Sounds like the D8k Pro might have been better suited for your taste.

I had a chance to snatch Pro version with just 200eur extra, but now opportunity window is gone. It's definitely too early to come to any conclusions with first impressions. There is a small line between detail retrieval and becoming too tiring for longer sessions. I do enjoy mid/treble presence on A8000 and how quick and impactful it sounds, but it can cross the line, especially with poorer recordings. Wanted something warmer as I can't focus for work when I listen to A8000. Either way Monday session is coming and I definitely need to get accustomed to different presentation

 

[hakunamakaka]

The bass is really fun though and definitely the star of the show on D8000

 

[buffer]

Not surprised re dynamics and impact, typical dynamic vs planar difference. My Elegia beats D8K handiliy in that.

Is the bass of ndh-30 really on par with D8KP in terms of quality and extension? What kind of genres are you basing this on?

Regarding resolution and detail retrieval, you previously compared D8KP to Susvara favorably so that would make ndh-30 in the ballpark of the best ever which is incredible.

You raise some good points. I would need to do more comparisons with the d8k pro to see whether ndh could compare in terms of bass extension. with my normal listening, i haven't experienced inferior bass, but i have not listeed to music with very low bass, lately.

In terms of genres, I listen to a wide variety - vocalists, rock, classic rock, easy listening, jazz, orchestral, and symphonic metal. I use Tidal, Qobuz ,and YouTube.

You are obervant. I have not compared the NDH directly to Susvara, but I do find the D8000 pro superior to Susvara in terms of resolution, impact and overall sound quality (obviously, this is subjective). Who knows? maybe my amps don't let the susvara reach full potential. wattage alone is not the only factor. I have used Pass X150, GS-X Mk2, Woo WA5 LE (gen 2) and Apex Teton on the Susvara and Final. The NDH is still a bit new to me, so not sure in a month or two how I will feel. But here are some headphones I prefer the Neumann over - ATH-ADX5000, Sennheiser HD 400 Pro, D8000 pro, HifiMan HE560 v4, and Sony R10 (replica) aka ES-R10. I consider most of these exceptional - the Neumann will not dominate them, but i do prefer the NDH-30 overall

 

[adrianm]

You raise some good points. I would need to do more comparisons with the d8k pro to see whether ndh could compare in terms of bass extension. with my normal listening, i haven't experienced inferior bass, but i have not listeed to music with very low bass, lately.

In terms of genres, I listen to a wide variety - vocalists, rock, classic rock, easy listening, jazz, orchestral, and symphonic metal. I use Tidal, Qobuz ,and YouTube.

You are obervant. I have not compared the NDH directly to Susvara, but I do find the D8000 pro superior to Susvara in terms of resolution, impact and overall sound quality (obviously, this is subjective). Who knows? maybe my amps don't let the susvara reach full potential. wattage alone is not the only factor. I have used Pass X150, GS-X Mk2, Woo WA5 LE (gen 2) and Apex Teton on the Susvara and Final. The NDH is still a bit new to me, so not sure in a month or two how I will feel. But here are some headphones I prefer the Neumann over - ATH-ADX5000, Sennheiser HD 400 Pro, D8000 pro, HifiMan HE560 v4, and Sony R10 (replica) aka ES-R10. I consider most of these exceptional - the Neumann will not dominate them, but i do prefer the NDH-30 overall

Out of curiosity, what does your chain look like?

 

[buffer]

Out of curiosity, what does your chain look like?

pretty simple. source is a Windows 10 Lenovo Yoga laptop, or sometimes I use what used to be considered a high-end Oppo blu-ray. I use it as a CD player.

I use Oppo HA-1 headphone amp/DAC as DAC only.
Amps connected to the Oppo simulatenously are Apex Teton, Woo Audio 5LE, and Headamp GS-X Mk2.

For my second system I use iFi bluetooth DAC plugged into Nimbus US4+. iFi is good, but holds performance back just a bit, I think. I use this system much less frequently.

Almost forgot - I use a Cyberpower UPS and DH Labs as well as some other types of cables - some copper, some silver - good quality, but not over the top.

BTW, looking to upgrade the Oppo DAC if folks have suggestions, preferably under 5K budget to include streaming or latest b;uetooth..

 

[adrianm]

pretty simple. source is a Windows 10 Lenovo Yoga laptop, or sometimes I use what used to be considered a high-end Oppo blu-ray. I use it as a CD player.

I use Oppo HA-1 headphone amp/DAC as DAC only.
Amps connected to the Oppo simulatenously are Apex Teton, Woo Audio 5LE, and Headamp GS-X Mk2.

For my second system I use iFi bluetooth DAC plugged into Nimbus US4+. iFi is good, but holds performance back just a bit, I think. I use this system much less frequently.

Almost forgot - I use a Cyberpower UPS and DH Labs as well as some other types of cables - some copper, some silver - good quality, but not over the top.

BTW, looking to upgrade the Oppo DAC if folks have suggestions, preferably under 5K budget to include streaming or latest b;uetooth..

My 2 cents is that the dac at least is a bottleneck, they matter more than people think. Power is definitely important, my mains filters always improved things considerably. Cables also matter somewhat, but I would prioritize electronics, that's where the bang for your buck is.
Highly recommend you go for a streaming dac so you can bypass all sort of problems looking for solutions. Good ones are getting cheaper every day. With the right dac, you'll be surprised how far some gear scales.

 

[hakunamakaka]

I personally never use EQ, but D8000 needs it to sound good. It's actually a must to boost 2.5 - 5khz region by approximately 4db. Maybe it's just my unit as I would be surprised if Final released it in such stock form. This small tweak pushes this HP's to a different tier

 

[Tano]

I personally never use EQ, but D8000 needs it to sound good. It's actually a must to boost 2.5 - 5khz region by approximately 4db. Maybe it's just my unit as I would be surprised if Final released it in such stock form. This small tweak pushes this HP's to a different tier

It's not you unit, that's the stock tuning. I don't think It is a deal breaker and and it gives very good results with some recordings. I can use the stock D8K Pro without any problem, but I also prefer adding about 5dbs on the ear gain area too.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I honestly can't even relate to the last 2 posts. The headphone they describe is not the D8000 I own and love. I don't doubt their sincerity at all, but I just don't hear what they are hearing.

I wouldn't think of boosting the 2.5 - 5 kHz region of this headphone. As is, unboosted, the sound is detailed, accurate and very clear, but with very slight warmth and no ear fatigue. Boosted? I doubt it would sound better, but it definitely would fatigue my ears.

This just demonstrates how different the hearing of different people is...

 

[Tano]

I honestly can't even relate to the last 2 posts. The headphone they describe is not the D8000 I own and love. I don't doubt their sincerity at all, but I just don't hear what they are hearing.

I wouldn't think of boosting the 2.5 - 5 kHz region of this headphone. As is, unboosted, the sound is detailed, accurate and very clear, but with very slight warmth and no ear fatigue. Boosted? I doubt it would sound better, but it definitely would fatigue my ears.

This just demonstrates how different the hearing of different people is...

That's nothing wrong and it happens on both the regular and the Pro. We all got different sensitivity in the ear gain region.
Not having a significant rise in that area isn't bad, but a lot people like a bit of more energy there, that's why most of the reference targets like Harman, IEF neutral, Difuse field etc... got a rise there. Or course all headphones should not follow targets or this hobby will be quite boring. I just happen to like a boost in the upper mids-low treble.

 

[Pharmaboy]

That's nothing wrong and it happens on both the regular and the Pro. We all got different sensitivity in the ear gain region.
Not having a significant rise in that area isn't bad, but a lot people like a bit of more energy there, that's why most of the reference targets like Harman, IEF neutral, Difuse field etc... got a rise there. Or course all headphones should not follow targets or this hobby will be quite boring. I just happen to like a boost in the upper mids-low treble.

This is a good explanation. It helps me understand the different ways we hear the same headphone.

I am quite sensitive to elevations in the upper midrange, and still feel very lucky to find the D8000, one of the few headphones I've heard that is very detailed and accurate, but doesn't give me a headache in the process...

 

[Tano]

This is a good explanation. It helps me understand the different ways we hear the same headphone.

I am quite sensitive to elevations in the upper midrange, and still feel very lucky to find the D8000, one of the few headphones I've heard that is very detailed and accurate, but doesn't give me a headache in the process...

Yeah. I totally agree that the D8K series got amazing detail without needing to boost the upper mids. A lot of headphones try to create fake detail bumping that region (Grados for example), and they end up being shouty and fatiguing.

For me, giving some extra dbs there brings some voices, specially female voices, a bit closer, which I prefer. But as I said before, the stock tuning is great in my opinion and it works great with all genres.