[SBranson]

Edit: nevermind the stuff I deleted, if you saw it--bad at doing math on phone.

anyway ignore this rambling and read this if you're interested in this stuff

This is confusing, because the power loss due to impedance is due to mismatches--namely, since the LX has an impedance of 14 ohms, you'd have the least power loss if your source also had an impedance of 14 ohms (resulting in a loss of 6.02dB). With a 10 ohm source impedance, you have a loss of 6.14dB, basically equal (less than a 3% difference in power loss, which results in a volume reduction of 4x). With, say, the ES100 in balanced mode, the source only has an output impedance of .5 ohms, which results in a power loss of 14.8dB, or a 30x reduction in volume.

So it's strange, because when you were losing (considerably) less power, you felt like it sounded worse! Now I've got some reading to do...

in the meantime, note:



or, with log-log scaling:



“power loss in dB”, here, is such that every 3dB results in a halving of the volume. but that makes you wonder—are any of your sources really not able to provide the extra dB when we’re talking about power scales around—and generally less than—a mW? and how does that result in a change in sound? I guess sensitivity and impedance are non-constant with frequency response.

I get that this is all pretty elementary for people involved in audio; is there a good source (a…aha) where I could read more about this? Specifically, about impedance curves—since the LX has an impedance of 14 ohms and a sensitivity of 102dB/mW at 1kHz, I’m curious how the FR changes as a function of source impedance if we normalize either for total volume or volume at some target frequency.

edit: just to take this rambling a little further—is the frequency response curve, in a sense, just inversely related to the impedance curve? I tried the first stuff that came to mind, but didn't really get reasonable results.

Thanks.. I tried to read the InnerFidelity link but I got lost. I've been a craftsman so long I tend to think with my hands. I used to be better at that kind of abstract thinking. I'm fine with philosophical concepts but not that...

So.. if you're at all inclined to help educate a dummy.. I was looking at the numbers for the Phantom, Bravado and the Valkyrie in relation to my Fiio M11. With the first two, having the benefit of the physical feedback of being able to listen, I think I can understand something simple like why I need more volume with the Bravado, but I can't figure out how the low impedance of the Valkyrie but also low spl will translate in actual listening.

Phantom : Impedance: 10 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity 117dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Bravado: Impedance: 22 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity: 98dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Valkyrie: Impedance: 3 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity: 96dB @ 1kHz, 1mW

Here's the M11 info if it matters...

 

[Rozeqloud]

Definitely more comfortable with this. It is a bit of a tight fit, as mentioned, but nothing that concerns me.

Is that the original case EE sends with their C/iems?

My LX CIEMs are so squished in there that they leave impressions in the lining/foam

i may just buy a slightly larger case and put the lining in that because i love the left and right being separated so they don't smack together and about.but being squished down so hard concerns me

 

[Layman1]

So I was surprised with a package today. These showed up. Let the burn in begin. But right out of the box, lots of extended highs, not harsh just nice and extended. Bottom end that goes deep , doesn’t hit hard as Legends X but nice , deep, textured and with good rumble. And mids are spot on. Stage is little smaller than legends X but still very nice and with tons of air around instruments.male vocals spot on.

Yes, this matches well with what I heard too. I think you'll be very happy with them. Do keep us updated

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Thanks.. I tried to read the InnerFidelity link but I got lost. I've been a craftsman so long I tend to think with my hands. I used to be better at that kind of abstract thinking. I'm fine with philosophical concepts but not that...

So.. if you're at all inclined to help educate a dummy.. I was looking at the numbers for the Phantom, Bravado and the Valkyrie in relation to my Fiio M11. With the first two, having the benefit of the physical feedback of being able to listen, I think I can understand something simple like why I need more volume with the Bravado, but I can't figure out how the low impedance of the Valkyrie but also low spl will translate in actual listening.

Phantom : Impedance: 10 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity 117dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Bravado: Impedance: 22 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity: 98dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Valkyrie: Impedance: 3 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity: 96dB @ 1kHz, 1mW

Here's the M11 info if it matters...

Okay, ignoring the stuff I said about multi-BA IEMs and impedance curves (which I'm taking for granted from that site, but which doesn't actually match my calculations—I'm assuming that I'm in error, here, so I'll think about that a little more before saying anything)...

At 1mW, assuming a resistance of 2 ohms from your M11 (since "less than 2" usually means "about 2" in this context):

Bravado will be at 86.8dB
Valkyrie would be at 89.8dB

So you've got a 3dB difference at the same input power; i.e. a 2x power difference. We don't hear at the scale of power differences, though—an increase of 10dB corresponds to twice the loudness, so here you'd have the valks being 23% louder at 1 mW.

Now, if we un-ignore the thing about multi-BA IEMs and consider the fact that we have not only a multi-BA, but a tribrid, you could have EXTREME impedance swings at different frequencies. 3ohms at 1k, depending on the crossover network, could be describing the impedance of only one of the types of drivers, and it could be very different for the others. This is part of how they're tuned, so it's not something to be concerned about probably, but it's just saying that "23% louder at 1mW" can only be said to be true at 1k—no guarantees elsewhere.

I hope that's helpful—for all of that, I think the takeaway really is just, "use a pretty good source with low impedance and don't worry about it."

 

[SBranson]

Thanks a lot!!. I like the summation in the takeaway.. Ha

That 3ohm impedance of the Valkyrie had me a little confused how that would manifest, but the M11 has no surprises.

 

[GiullianSN]

let's go...general question to Legend X owners.

Do you have any Driver Flex on your IEMs? If so on a scale from 0-10 how much do you have? (moving your mouth, inserting, removing...)

 

[mwhals]

let's go...general question to Legend X owners.

Do you have any Driver Flex on your IEMs? If so on a scale from 0-10 how much do you have? (moving your mouth, inserting, removing...)

None that I have noticed. 0 for me.

 

[Progisus]

let's go...general question to Legend X owners.

Do you have any Driver Flex on your IEMs? If so on a scale from 0-10 how much do you have? (moving your mouth, inserting, removing...)

Right ear... insert, reseating, pressure touch. Never while playing. Doesn't worry me as the thread has said it is normal?

 

[Vitaly2017]

Nice I am really awaiting those impressions on the valkyrie ) ) )

They look nice

 

[mr.karmalicious]

let's go...general question to Legend X owners.

Do you have any Driver Flex on your IEMs? If so on a scale from 0-10 how much do you have? (moving your mouth, inserting, removing...)

I used to have it on the right when inserting, but now I have it on the left. I think. it's not every time; kinda depends on ear position. Definitely have it while taking them out—my ears are like, "ooo, an IEM" and decide to get very cozy around it, so the seal gets pretty powerful. Have it while adjusting, but not while moving my mouth or anything like that. Doesn't really bother me.

 

[Rozeqloud]

let's go...general question to Legend X owners.

Do you have any Driver Flex on your IEMs? If so on a scale from 0-10 how much do you have? (moving your mouth, inserting, removing...)

Zero for me

 

[Progisus]

Zero for me

5

 

[GiullianSN]

thanks guys. I would expect some kind of flex during insertion and adjustment due to the DD, but I am having a lot on my left ear, even opening/closing my mouth. it's becoming annoying, because I need to stay steady still or will have flex.

 

[TooPoorForHiFi]

The Driver Flex is more prone to Silicone Tips than Foam, Regardless From what I was told by Empire Ears they extend lifetime warranty on any drivers that are damaged due to driver flex.

Rest assured they got you covered

 

[Vitaly2017]

Wonder if driver flex happens with ciems?