[Owludio]

Actually I didn't like Stax. (will get a lot of hates now)

Could you please share what was wrong with the sound? For me, all ortho-dynamics suffer from the same issue: lack of the low end impact due to the limited force that moves ultra light diaphragm. The treble is addictive though, that's why new 3-hybrids getting my attention!

 

[GiullianSN]

Now that's something you don't hear every day..
The 007/717 was the best I've ever heard...

I heard the 003/005/007 during a show around here. They were nice, but didn't blow my mind as I was expecting due to others opinion. Ugly as hell, uncomfortable and bad quality. Looks like toys. (Expensive ones)

Don't get me wrong. Just tastes. Not for me, I'm more a ZMF kinda guy, beautiful and enjoyable.

Could you please share what was wrong with the sound? For me, all ortho-dynamics suffer from the same issue: lack of the low end impact due to the limited force that moves ultra light diaphragm. The treble is addictive though, that's why new 3-hybrids getting my attention!

On top of the above, the mid-highs are really good, specilly highs, but music are not highs alone. Low end was hidden somewhere away on a drawer. I'm with you and I heard a couple tribids and they are what is missing on the big ones. Like "I just want that highs" and the rest I can manage with BA and DD. Looking forward for the opportunity to try the Vlakies and Warth.

 

[SBranson]

I heard the 003/005/007 during a show around here. They were nice, but didn't blow my mind as I was expecting due to others opinion. Ugly as hell, uncomfortable and bad quality. Looks like toys. (Expensive ones)

Don't get me wrong. Just tastes. Not for me, I'm more a ZMF kinda guy, beautiful and enjoyable.



On top of the above, the mid-highs are really good, specilly highs, but music are not highs alone. Low end was hidden somewhere away on a drawer. I'm with you and I heard a couple tribids and they are what is missing on the big ones. Like "I just want that highs" and the rest I can manage with BA and DD. Looking forward for the opportunity to try the Vlakies and Warth.

I understand.. I had the original Lambda Signatures, then the 404LE... the 404LE were magic for small chamber groups and small scale acoustic music. So nice that if I had the money I would've kept that (with the 006t amp) just for Baroque music.
The Omega007 with the nicely powerful 717 amp had plenty of low end and all the beautiful mids and highs Stax are know for. I've heard music that was a revelation on that set up.. I have never heard it like that since.
Sadly financial woes were the end of that set up.. The Lambda series can seem cheaply made but you don't get that with the Omega007.

I did have a brief time with the SR-507 and it was like a dentist's drill in my ears.. Hated them..

 

[GiullianSN]

The conditions I tested them weren't the best. I know.

But those stats qualities on the IEMs are a game changer, when well implemented.

 

[SBranson]

Yes indeed.. I am truly looking forward to hearing one of these new breed iems.

 

[nocturaline]

I understand.. I had the original Lambda Signatures, then the 404LE... the 404LE were magic for small chamber groups and small scale acoustic music. So nice that if I had the money I would've kept that (with the 006t amp) just for Baroque music.
The Omega007 with the nicely powerful 717 amp had plenty of low end and all the beautiful mids and highs Stax are know for. I've heard music that was a revelation on that set up.. I have never heard it like that since.
Sadly financial woes were the end of that set up.. The Lambda series can seem cheaply made but you don't get that with the Omega007.

I did have a brief time with the SR-507 and it was like a dentist's drill in my ears.. Hated them..

I also had the original Lambda. They were powered by a speaker tube amp (Jadis DA30), and they sounded amazing. But times have changed, and I'm really looking forward to owning the Valkyrie. Although I love my Woo Audio/ZMF setup, I spend most of my time now, listening to the Bravado plugged into the balanced Sony WM300.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

Tried the Valkyrie again today. My impressions are much more positive this time around I think.

Last time, I mentioned that the Valkyrie seemed to be lacking in drivers, i.e. that the BA and EST didn’t balance out the W9. Today, I didn’t get the darkness I felt last time around - I’ll attribute that to having all of my own IEM tips and being able to mess around until I found one that worked best. It felt a lot more balanced and seemed to slot into its position in the X series well. Clear upgrade from the Bravado, noticeable step down from the Legend X, and almost makes the Vantage and Nemesis obsolete (the lineup is a bit cluttered there)?

 

[SBranson]

Tried the Valkyrie again today. My impressions are much more positive this time around I think.

Last time, I mentioned that the Valkyrie seemed to be lacking in drivers, i.e. that the BA and EST didn’t balance out the W9. Today, I didn’t get the darkness I felt last time around - I’ll attribute that to having all of my own IEM tips and being able to mess around until I found one that worked best. It felt a lot more balanced and seemed to slot into its position in the X series well. Clear upgrade from the Bravado, noticeable step down from the Legend X, and almost makes the Vantage and Nemesis obsolete (the lineup is a bit cluttered there)?

Are there benefits of the EST that make it an interesting alternative to the Legend X or is it a step down in every respect?

 

[BananaOoyoo]

Are there benefits of the EST that make it an interesting alternative to the Legend X or is it a step down in every respect?

I think the Valkyrie is a nice alternative to the Legend X if you find its lower end to be too much? Both IEMs reach pretty deep, but the Legend X has a very noticeable midbass boost that can bleed into the lower mids. The Valkyrie is more polite in that regard.

I find EST driver implementations to be a bit hit or miss, but the Valkyrie doesn’t really have issues there (at least this time around?). Basically, outside of spec sheets, it’s neither a strength nor a weakness.

The Legend X is more resolving and sounds weightier/more substantial, whereas the Valkyrie is probably more agreeable. (Valkyrie also doesn’t stick out of my ears at all, which is really nice. Enough with those massive IEMs.)

 

[GiullianSN]

Enough with those massive IEMs.)

I can tell... comparing my A12t (that I though was huge) to my Legend X... A12t looks like single BA.

 

[goodvibes]

I also had the original Lambda. They were powered by a speaker tube amp (Jadis DA30), and they sounded amazing. But times have changed, and I'm really looking forward to owning the Valkyrie. Although I love my Woo Audio/ZMF setup, I spend most of my time now, listening to the Bravado plugged into the balanced Sony WM300.

I had a few myself, from srx to lambda signatures and still have a soft spot for the original low voltage lambda. Plenty of detail and just sounded more real as opposed to enhanced.

 

[SBranson]

I think the Valkyrie is a nice alternative to the Legend X if you find its lower end to be too much? Both IEMs reach pretty deep, but the Legend X has a very noticeable midbass boost that can bleed into the lower mids. The Valkyrie is more polite in that regard.

I find EST driver implementations to be a bit hit or miss, but the Valkyrie doesn’t really have issues there (at least this time around?). Basically, outside of spec sheets, it’s neither a strength nor a weakness.

The Legend X is more resolving and sounds weightier/more substantial, whereas the Valkyrie is probably more agreeable. (Valkyrie also doesn’t stick out of my ears at all, which is really nice. Enough with those massive IEMs.)

Thanks for the clear explanation. I wondered if the EST thing is more of a selling feature than a true revolution in iems. There are a lot of ChiFi options out right now with tons of praise from the early adopters and just like many other things, I wonder if the novelty is fuelling the excitement rather than real benefits. I would really like to try the Valkyrie but honestly I'm not sure that buying a Legend X used isn't a better choice for pure "upgrade".

I had a few myself, from srx to lambda signatures and still have a soft spot for the original low voltage lambda. Plenty of detail and just sounded more real as opposed to enhanced.

The Lambda signatures were my first Stax and they really lacked in extension but were so buttery smooth and pleasing in the midrange that acoustic music was sheer joy. The 404LE cleaned up the sound and added extension without losing that beautiful tone... I'm getting nostalgic...
That whole system isn't practical for me though so if an iem can get there... perfection..

 

[Deezel177]

Thanks for the clear explanation. I wondered if the EST thing is more of a selling feature than a true revolution in iems. There are a lot of ChiFi options out right now with tons of praise from the early adopters and just like many other things, I wonder if the novelty is fuelling the excitement rather than real benefits. I would really like to try the Valkyrie but honestly I'm not sure that buying a Legend X used isn't a better choice for pure "upgrade".



The Lambda signatures were my first Stax and they really lacked in extension but were so buttery smooth and pleasing in the midrange that acoustic music was sheer joy. The 404LE cleaned up the sound and added extension without losing that beautiful tone... I'm getting nostalgic...
That whole system isn't practical for me though so if an iem can get there... perfection..

As is the case with everything else, it's more so the application, rather than the spec. In my experience, there hasn't been an exception to that rule.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

Thanks for the clear explanation. I wondered if the EST thing is more of a selling feature than a true revolution in iems. There are a lot of ChiFi options out right now with tons of praise from the early adopters and just like many other things, I wonder if the novelty is fuelling the excitement rather than real benefits. I would really like to try the Valkyrie but honestly I'm not sure that buying a Legend X used isn't a better choice for pure "upgrade".

The Lambda signatures were my first Stax and they really lacked in extension but were so buttery smooth and pleasing in the midrange that acoustic music was sheer joy. The 404LE cleaned up the sound and added extension without losing that beautiful tone... I'm getting nostalgic...
That whole system isn't practical for me though so if an iem can get there... perfection..

Right now, I think it’s definitely the novelty. It’s not that there are no decent implementations of the Sonion EST, but rather that there aren’t many (any?) hybrids right now in which I feel that the tweeter does its job better than a BA (or DD) would. If anything, I’d even say that some of the better hybrids out there (like the Trinity) are good in spite of, and not because of, the Sonion tweeter.

None of these tweeters are giving you the performance of a KSE1200, let alone a Stax setup. Maybe it’ll get there eventually.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Right now, I think it’s definitely the novelty. It’s not that there are no decent implementations of the Sonion EST, but rather that there aren’t many (any?) hybrids right now in which I feel that the tweeter does its job better than a BA (or DD) would. If anything, I’d even say that some of the better hybrids out there (like the Trinity) are good in spite of, and not because of, the Sonion tweeter.

None of these tweeters are giving you the performance of a KSE1200, let alone a Stax setup. Maybe it’ll get there eventually.

Indeed--if I were looking for an alternative/complementary set to my LX, I'd honestly look toward the KSE, at least after a bit of demo time. Hell, though, maybe by that point folks will have figured out how to combine proper high voltage estat with dynamic drivers (seems a challenging engineering problem), so we'll see in a little while, I guess