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Thanks. That helps. I wouldn't pay that much for earphones either, but always curious.. haha
I have the Bravados and love them. They were my first customs and wanted an inexpensive CIEM in case I didn't like customs, plus I use them when traveling...so if something happens to them I'm not out that much money (although $700 isn't exactly chump change I've listened to the LX quite a bit and love them as well, like many have noted, they are several levels above the Bravado in being able to better produce the mids and treble, and of course really bring the bass compared to the Bravados. But the Bravado is no slouch, the bass that I get from them is excellent - when listening to soundtracks I can feel the rumble, for example "Why so Serious?" on The Dark Knight soundtrack - listening to that right now. The LX or Valkyrie will be my next IEM, and a custom as well. BTW, I also have the Phantoms in the universal version and love them as well.
I found LX unlistenable on my Hiby R6 possibly because of 10 Ohm oi. Sounds very dark with bass loose and boomy, terrible. Didn't have this problem with ier-z1r. Sounds decent with Ear-studio BT and directly from Galaxy S8+ albeit little heavier than I'd prefer.
Edit: nevermind the stuff I deleted, if you saw it--bad at doing math on phone.
anyway ignore this rambling and read this if you're interested in this stuff
This is confusing, because the power loss due to impedance is due to mismatches--namely, since the LX has an impedance of 14 ohms, you'd have the least power loss if your source also had an impedance of 14 ohms (resulting in a loss of 6.02dB). With a 10 ohm source impedance, you have a loss of 6.14dB, basically equal (less than a 3% difference in power loss, which results in a volume reduction of 4x). With, say, the ES100 in balanced mode, the source only has an output impedance of .5 ohms, which results in a power loss of 14.8dB, or a 30x reduction in volume.
So it's strange, because when you were losing (considerably) less power, you felt like it sounded worse! Now I've got some reading to do...
in the meantime, note:
or, with log-log scaling:
“power loss in dB”, here, is such that every 3dB results in a halving of the volume. but that makes you wonder—are any of your sources really not able to provide the extra dB when we’re talking about power scales around—and generally less than—a mW? and how does that result in a change in sound? I guess sensitivity and impedance are non-constant with frequency response.
I get that this is all pretty elementary for people involved in audio; is there a good source (a…aha) where I could read more about this? Specifically, about impedance curves—since the LX has an impedance of 14 ohms and a sensitivity of 102dB/mW at 1kHz, I’m curious how the FR changes as a function of source impedance if we normalize either for total volume or volume at some target frequency.
edit: just to take this rambling a little further—is the frequency response curve, in a sense, just inversely related to the impedance curve? I tried the first stuff that came to mind, but didn't really get reasonable results.
So I was surprised with a package today. These showed up. Let the burn in begin. But right out of the box, lots of extended highs, not harsh just nice and extended. Bottom end that goes deep , doesn’t hit hard as Legends X but nice , deep, textured and with good rumble. And mids are spot on. Stage is little smaller than legends X but still very nice and with tons of air around instruments.male vocals spot on.
Very cool. I pre-ordered mine from Audio46. Hopefully that means they'll be here soon!
Still really loving that faceplate!
Oh man I want a set of those. That description sounds great.
Definitely more comfortable with this. It is a bit of a tight fit, as mentioned, but nothing that concerns me.
Male vocals spot on, but how about female vocals?
Thank you! Wow! Entire research with a lot of useful info. I'll be switching to balanced and then will comment of results.
Fwiw, the conclusion I came to based on reading the linked source:
You lose more power with the ES100 or another low impedance source, yes, but it's not nearly enough that you can't just make up for that by increasing the volume. However, if you have a higher source impedance, you'll lose less power at some given load (headphone) impedance, but because multi-BA headphones have wild impedance swings across the frequency spectrum, this results in vastly different power--and thus volume--loss at different frequencies. With a small impedance, you get a much flatter power output as a function of frequency.
Thank you! I agree that lower OI is supposed to be better because of my experience with loudspeaker amps. There, the output must provide more current than driver can take and the voltage must be minimally affected by mechanical inductance (caused by diaphragm suspension and inertia) because ideally Amp output voltage defines "controls" position of the diaphragm.
Then I experienced Etymotic er4s/p where cable turning 4p to 4s was just added 1K resistor in each channel. So, at least Etymotic BA was controlled by current, not voltage and this resistor serving as Constant Current Source leveled energy across frequency range for the BA. Go figure.. So For a while I forgot about that rule, especially when Hiby R6 defied logic by driving brilliantly every iem I had, despite crazy 10 Ohm oi.
Started getting used to audiophile lingo where "controlled bass" meaning is completely different than in electronics...
And here comes Legend X, bringing it back! Apparently those W9 drivers also need proper voltage control to behave, do they? Now we also have Valkyrie with 3 Ohm impedance! Ouch!
BTW, thank you for pointing out that balanced out has actually lower oi. I suspect same might be true for R6 because when I had Xelento, it sounded much superior from R6 2.5mm.
Thanks.. I tried to read the InnerFidelity link but I got lost. I've been a craftsman so long I tend to think with my hands. I used to be better at that kind of abstract thinking. I'm fine with philosophical concepts but not that...
So.. if you're at all inclined to help educate a dummy.. I was looking at the numbers for the Phantom, Bravado and the Valkyrie in relation to my Fiio M11. With the first two, having the benefit of the physical feedback of being able to listen, I think I can understand something simple like why I need more volume with the Bravado, but I can't figure out how the low impedance of the Valkyrie but also low spl will translate in actual listening.
Phantom : Impedance: 10 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity 117dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Bravado: Impedance: 22 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity: 98dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Valkyrie: Impedance: 3 ohms @ 1kHz, Sensitivity: 96dB @ 1kHz, 1mW
Here's the M11 info if it matters...
Is that the original case EE sends with their C/iems?
My LX CIEMs are so squished in there that they leave impressions in the lining/foam
i may just buy a slightly larger case and put the lining in that because i love the left and right being separated so they don't smack together and about.but being squished down so hard concerns me