[Zombie_X]

The 600Ohm models have a sensitivity of 96db at 1 milliwatt. So they are pretty darned low on the sensitivity scale. The T1 is 116db I believe and that is a very sensitive can. 
 
Quote:

i wish i could find the sensitivity ratings for the 250 ohm and 600 ohm beyers (decibels per milliwatt).
however, i'll just have to share anecdotally, that most folks would mistake the 250 ohm beyers as "twice as easy to drive" as the 600 ohm siblings.
However, this isn't anywhere near true.
In fact, they are almost as hard to drive.
 
You see, powering a headphone isn't just about impedance.  It's also about sensitivity.
The 250 ohm beyers, while being of lower impedance, also have slightly heavier drivers, making them "nearly" as difficult to achieve similar sound pressure levels.

 

[Nintendam]

alright- got my dt-880 600's, and it seems the iBasso Toucan PB1 can drive these well at moderate levels, but needs to be maxed (even at the high gain setting of +15 db) to get a nice loudish volume. The Toucan also has balanced inputs/outputs... perhaps it's worth considering re-cabling to fit my amp.
 
And I know a portable amp can in no way replicate tubes (if its the same difference as a guitar amp solid state vs tubes, then I absolutely know the difference)- but I feel the PB1 nicely compliments the 880 at a portable level.
 
In terms of other headphones, I can only relate to a pair of ultrasone pro 900 and grado sr-225's but honestly I feel these cans sound pretty awesome (I believe they only have 20-30 hours on them, I don't think these need a relatively long burn-in, but anyone have a nicer number than the pro 900's needed?) 
 
For sure does not compare to the bass on the pro 900's, or the mid to mid-high's of the grados, but doesn't fail at any one frequency... plus there is an extremely nice soundstage not found in any of the above. 
 
as for desktop amps, MK III or IV? I really need to see if work would mind... 
 
 

 

[caracara08]

if youre gonna recable, i suggest doing it to a 4 pin xlr and getting an adapter. personally, i would assume having had the pb1 SE and balanced vs desktop amps, i would say go desktop amp.  i felt that sound stage and imaging was lessened through portable amps driving hard to drive headphones

 

[BackwardPawn]

Quote:

See here people, this is how pathetic Graphicism is. Someone's opinion is different than his, so he will then look at your profile and over-analyze all your gear just to try and fling poo at you for having a different opinion. It's really sad. This explains all I need to know about him. This is part of the problem on Head-Fi these days. Someone always wants to ruin your fun and point out that you can't possibly enjoy a headphone because he doesn't have an expensive amp or that if it's not good to him and his ears, it must be junk. You don't need a $300 tube amp to drive the DT-880 600 well!
 
I'm going to ignore this idiotic idea from you that i've never had a properly amped headphone at all. You claim you're not a troll but I definitely think otherwise with comments like this. OK, FYI The Headroom Micro amp is powerful enough to drive the HD-650, K601, K702 and has perfect synergy with all of them. It's driven EVERYTHING I've thrown at it extremely well and was my upgrade from the Asgard (and I think it's better)! I mostly bought it for my K702 and HD-650 I had at the time. It makes the Fiio E9 look like a joke really, but that should be obvious. Of course you'll probably want to look at it's PDF manual to fling more poo and prove me wrong. It's not some battery powered amp, but yes it is small. Why do I bother replying to trolls again? I guess you got what you wanted.
 
You did the same thing last time when I suggested the E9. You go through my profile and proclaim that I have no DAC! Ever think that maybe I don't use a computer for music? Or that I prefer CD? I have a DAC. It's garbage and I don't use it much.
 
BTW I used one IEM for 3 years and only started getting back into headphones in early 2010. Please tell me why I should need to go out and buy multiple amps? I only buy what's required for what I'm currently using. If I don't like it, I'll try another amp.I did this with the HD-600, HD-650 and K702.
 
I'm done wasting my time here. Talking to Graphicism just turns into a train wreck. All over headphones, which makes it even more sad.

 
tdockweiler,
 
I hope I didn't give the impression I was valuing anyone's opinion above the other by saying I'm looking into amps a bit more.  Fact is, I'm just confused now about whether the E9 is adequit or whether I should be getting a tube amp (or some higher quality solid state).  I don't want to buy something cheap, only to replace it a year from now (I'm already doing that with the AD700s).  I figure I've got a decent source (Ti HD) and the AD700s are good enough until I can make a decision on an amp and a good pair of headphones, so I'm not in any rush.  I'm just trying to figure out whats best.
 
Jeff

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
tdockweiler,
 
I hope I didn't give the impression I was valuing anyone's opinion above the other by saying I'm looking into amps a bit more.  Fact is, I'm just confused now about whether the E9 is adequit or whether I should be getting a tube amp (or some higher quality solid state).  I don't want to buy something cheap, only to replace it a year from now (I'm already doing that with the AD700s).  I figure I've got a decent source (Ti HD) and the AD700s are good enough until I can make a decision on an amp and a good pair of headphones, so I'm not in any rush.  I'm just trying to figure out whats best.
 
Jeff

I 100% suggest to anyone that they should always get the best amp they can afford without going overboard. I mean for someone new there is no reason to go all out and get a $1000 amp for a DT-880 600 ohm! I would never suggest to someone to get a DT-880 600 ohm for use on the E9, but it can still be quite good. What's sad is that many people here these days totally avoid getting an amp AT ALL. I always felt the E9  or something around that price range is a worthwhile investment if they don't have a lot of money to spend. Many people just don't want or can't afford a $200-$300 amp. Buying a $120 desktop amp is better than no amp at all!
 
I just think that many people don't understand how good of an amp the E9 is for the price. It's fairly powerful for being so tiny. Now it won't drive everything extremely well, but seriously it seems like very few full sized amps can drive the K702 well and this can. It's kind of annoying how some people seem to think that you shouldn't bother with the K702 without spending $300+ on an amp.
 
The E9 would have absolutely ZERO problems driving the DT-880 250 ohm and 32 ohm. I haven't tried the 600 ohm version with it, but it's said to be actually just as easy to drive as the other versions. The E9 is a starter amp IMO, but it's definitely an upgrade from portable amps. It's worthwhile to spend another $100-$200 and get something better whenever possible. I have zero regrets with buying my E9. It's not the best amp in the world and I'd be stupid to say so, but for $120 it's very good!
 
Seriously, I wonder how many people skip more expensive headphones because they don't want to spend $200-$300 on an amp or can't afford it? We sure need more budget solid state amps. I'm sure there is much better SS amps out there for the price, but the E9 is quite good and easily found. For those that buy it, it's easy to sell off, so I don't see the big deal.
 
With amps, amp synergy is the most important thing. Even $300 amps can make your nice new headphone sound like garbage. I had this experience when I bought my Asgard and it didn't play well with my K702. That's why I upgraded to something else. The E9 sounds better on my E9 than the Asgard only because of better synergy with it.
 
So my advice is always get the best amp you can afford without overdoing it and then make sure it has very good synergy. I bought the Micro Amp because it played well with my HD-650 AND K702. This seems to be less common than you'd think! I do think the DT-880 32/250 was very very good out of the E9.
 
I do think some very expensive amps (upgrades) are a waste with SOME headphones. For example, my K601, HD-598 and HD-600 (past the Asgard!) didn't see much benefits from amp upgrades, but the HD-650 and K702 did the most. Both of these sounded different with every amp!
 

 

[BackwardPawn]

I'm thinking I'll go with the DT880, since it sounds like its a good all-around headphone for music, and it seems people game with them too.  I may add the DT990 down the road, but its hard to justify something that's not neutral for all-around use.  While I wanted something fun, I think I'll be happier this way.
 
One question though, will my old Yamaha stereo amp drive these until I can decide on which tube amp I want?  Thanks for all the help.
 
 
Jeff

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

I've used a lot of amps (including some of the nicer tube amps, and I've got access to NOS tubes too though I really don't like using them, relying on something you may not be able to replace isn't a great idea imo) and I find the E9 does fine with a wide range of cans! It's got enough voltage to reproduce dynamic material without significant distortion (a real issue with 9V-powered amps and higher impedance cans) and can pump enough current to satisfy the more demanding but lower impedance headphones. Plug an HD-650 into it and an AKG K701 into it and the volume level is about the same, even though the HD-650s have a much higher impedance peak and general impedance. AKGs are some thirsty friggin' cans. Beyer DT-990 250ohm are the sweet spot, in my moderately humble opinion (hey, if it were really humble, I'd keep it to myself).
 
I think there's some (understandable, forgivable, but nonetheless) elitism going on there... Yeah, you're going to get better results with a really nice amp, but stepping back from everything except construction, specifications and the stuff that's measured in physics rather than price of entry, the E9 is pretty remarkable. A game changer at the price point, puts adequate power into the hands of anyone who previously might have been limited to a cmoy or something like it. I don't mean anything more than adequate, mind you, don't raise hackles, there isn't any insinuation here.
 
I don't have any personal bias pro/con discrete or chip (I do like small circuits so ICs are neat to me from a technological standpoint and I work with them in my day job, but when it comes to headphone amps, matters not - just results - dig it...), and I don't have any personal preference for class A vs. other power amp technology anywhere but my guitar amp. Which is class A tube. But that's because I want it to sound nasty and run hot! Not qualities I necessarily look for in a headphone amplifier! But, please, take this peacefully, as it's offered, not as a challenge. I only mean to point out the adequacy of the E9, not to challenge better, pricier gear as inadequate or equivalent.
 
I love the DT-990, the DT-880 strike me as being just a tad bit... I dunno, less profound. But that's not a bad thing, necessarily. They would make a good pick if I could only have one headphone and it had to be high end but still affordable/in reach of anyone seriously into the hobby. I suspect I'll pick up some T1s soon, big fan of Beyer's overall style and sound. If I had to have one pair of headphones to compliment my monitoring setup and I was given a budget of $400 and it included the amp (not counting a DAC since that's assumed in an audio production setup obviously), DT-880s and an E9 would be a pretty good pick. Not quite as much of a "magnifying glass" on the upper midrange and highs as some other cans (specifically AKG K701/702/Q701 come to mind, here, such detail for the money, you'd have to spend twice the price of the AKGs at least, per monitor, to achieve remotely comparable detail in the highs), but the DT-880s do put forward a very balanced presentation, and man are they comfortable. Beyer knocks comfort out of the park. Wear 'em all day, listening to stuff or not, they're just pleasant on the head.
 
Has anyone told him that Beyers are REALLY REALLY SENSITIVE TO PLACEMENT ON YOUR SKULL yet? If you veg out for a sec and they slide back half an inch, you've just changed the overall frequency response dramatically. Roomy ear cups unless you've got some seriously large ears (I've got big ears! I can say that!), and a fairly loose fit, plus really plush earpads... Careful to put them where they sound best on your head. Big changes a few CM forward or back!

 

[BackwardPawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I love the DT-990, the DT-880 strike me as being just a tad bit... I dunno, less profound. But that's not a bad thing, necessarily. They would make a good pick if I could only have one headphone and it had to be high end but still affordable/in reach of anyone seriously into the hobby.

 
So you think the 880s are the right direction to go then?  Before I got into head-fi, I really only listened to rock and maybe some jazz, even though I have a good stereo system.  That's why I thought the 990s would be so good.  But lately, I listen to a little of everything, from classical to jazz to j-pop.  I can't imagine the 990s being a good all-around headphone due to their signature (though I really wish I could try them without plunking down $300).
 
I think I really need something more neutral for now and then I can look at fun later.  And thanks for the insight on amps.  I realize the E9 is a decent entry level device, but I'm actually leaning toward something with tubes, like a Little Dot, but I want to hear the phones before making any decision.  So hopefully the Yamaha will have a decent headphone out, for now.  Thanks for the advice, though.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Check Amazon's too-low-to-list on the DT-990 pro. The DT-990 pro use the same 250ohm driver as the DT-990 Premium 250ohm and can be had for an absolute bargain new. Slightly more clamping force but nothing you'd notice, very robustly designed (they are far, far more like the DT-990 than the DT-770 Pro 80ohm are like the DT-770) and Amazon's A-Z policy and fulfillment arrangement means you should be able to give them a couple weeks worth of a try to see if you'd dig the DT-990 sound. As someone else mentioned, the 250ohm are not any harder to drive realistically speaking than the 600ohm, they trade impedance for slightly higher mass, slight in real terms but meaningful in electrical terms.
 
Anyway, hard to go wrong with Beyer's DT-770/880/990 in my opinion, they all offer nice things if you pick wisely. Take me seriously regarding placement relative to your ear! As comfortable as they are, a nudge one way or another can totally change the sound without you realizing it unless music is playing at that time.
 
Edit: A little investigation after making this post directed me to the DT-770 Pro 250ohm. Which I then bought. Meaningful isolation from 100hz to 1khz, then great isolation from there? Sign me up. Most closed headphones that aren't the HD-280 really don't have much from 100hz to 1000hz; the DT-770 Pro 250ohm use the same driver as the 250ohm premium, really excited to have them coming in. I can't do IEMs and I don't like the way active noise cancellation sounds or else I wouldn't look for headphones to reduce noise passively, but I thought I'd let you know that your thread inspired me to pick up a set of headphones I'd been after for awhile. When did they make the Premium 250ohm driver available in the Pro format, anyone know? I'll definitely take the discount for just a bit more pressure and a more rugged headband, it's plenty comfortable!