DAP-off! Astell&Kern, Sony, HiFiMan, Chord, FiiO, Lotoo, Soundaware, Hiby, Cayin & others
Sep 2, 2014 at 11:18 PM Post #766 of 2,125
I think it all boils down to personal preference. I value AK240 (stock) spacious presentation a little more than the note weight and better bass impact of HM-901.:ksc75smile: just like Kiats style, it is worthwhile to own multiple TOTL DAPs


I saw that... Naughty! :eek:

What you say is correct: it may depend on one's preferences. Another factor is the amp card used with the 901: Mike uses the discrete card while George uses the minibox card, iirc. That makes a difference.

:atsmile:
 
Sep 2, 2014 at 11:20 PM Post #767 of 2,125
I think (never auditioned) the 901 is a muscular power house and drive most phones with authority which gives its edge over the 240. 


You may be right. With many IEMs the 901 drives them effortlessly with plenty to spare and the music presentation benefits. :L3000:
 
Sep 3, 2014 at 12:36 AM Post #768 of 2,125
I saw that... Naughty! :eek:

What you say is correct: it may depend on one's preferences. Another factor is the amp card used with the 901: Mike uses the discrete card while George uses the minibox card, iirc. That makes a difference.

:atsmile:



I am now back to balance card after hifiman sent me back a unit with the phone jack fixed. There is no perfect DAP , each performs better than the other in some way. Depending on our mood and the music in rotation, we choose our poison and compromise. For DAP, these two are in the same tier.
 
Sep 3, 2014 at 12:49 AM Post #769 of 2,125
I am now back to balance card after hifiman sent me back a unit with the phone jack fixed. There is no perfect DAP , each performs better than the other in some way. Depending on our mood and the music in rotation, we choose our poison and compromise. For DAP, these two are in the same tier.


Apologies, CHG, as to attributing the wrong amp card. But totally agree: everything is very much relative in the top tier. There's never too much to choose between the candidates: all down to personal preferences and the moment. :)
 
Sep 3, 2014 at 3:52 AM Post #770 of 2,125
My feeling about the HM-901 cards is that the balanced card has something of the character of the OPA627s on it -- a bit warm, which works well with the inbuilt DAC. The discrete card is better, but reveals something of the ES9018 "sound", which I don't like as much. 
 
Sep 3, 2014 at 4:33 AM Post #771 of 2,125
  My feeling about the HM-901 cards is that the balanced card has something of the character of the OPA627s on it -- a bit warm, which works well with the inbuilt DAC. The discrete card is better, but reveals something of the ES9018 "sound", which I don't like as much. 

Hi Currawong,
 
Could you please elaborate a bit more about ES9018 sound as I'm not familiar with this and like to learn more.
 
Cheers 
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 3:15 AM Post #773 of 2,125
  So much for my statement about battery life  http://store.sony.com/64-gb-hi-res-walkman-digital-music-player-zid27-NWZA17SLV/cat-27-catid-All-MP3-Players?_t=pfm%3Dcategory

 
yep, they have just set a whole new standard!
30 hours for 24 bit 192 khz and 40 hours for 24 bit 96 khz...
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 4:02 AM Post #774 of 2,125
Not trying to be too cynical...just remember how good zx-1 sounds...n it probably needs PHA-3 to make it sounds good...
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 4:54 AM Post #775 of 2,125
Ok, so now I have to find out if I can borrow one of those new Sonys...
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 6:33 AM Post #776 of 2,125
 
  My feeling about the HM-901 cards is that the balanced card has something of the character of the OPA627s on it -- a bit warm, which works well with the inbuilt DAC. The discrete card is better, but reveals something of the ES9018 "sound", which I don't like as much. 

Hi Currawong,
 
Could you please elaborate a bit more about ES9018 sound as I'm not familiar with this and like to learn more.
 
Cheers 

 
What I've observed is that all DACs seem to have something of an individual sound signature, more noticeably when they are less well-implemented than when they are in some uber high-end DAC with gazillion dollar clocking and unmeasurably low noise and distortion. Everything else seems to have some degree or another of failure. (It's a concept based around an idea that how something fails to do what it is meant to that much is revealed about it.) I used to own an ES9018-based Calyx DAC 24/192 which is USB or 5V powered. Depending how it was set up, it either sounded flat and dull, or quite good. The Calyx M seems to be somewhat similar with its USB DAC feature.
 
The worse an ES9018 is set up, the more "flat" the music sounds, such as the DAC 24/192 using USB from a computer as source and power. 
The worse a BB/TI DAC is set up (either the old R2R ones or new SD ones) the more harsh and unpleasant they sound, eg: Luxman DA100 and DA200.
The worse a Wolfson is set up, it just loses resolution (which is why I think they were more popular in portable devices). They fail gracefully.
The worse a Cirrus Logic DAC is set up, the more dull they sound.
AKM DACs seem to have something of a graceful failure too. They seem to sound OK regardless of what they are in from cheap to expensive.
 
At least one manufacturer described the ES9018 as being like a Ferrari: You have to use the best parts and circuit always. 
 
So to me both the Calyx and Hifiman (with discrete card) sound a tiny bit flat to me mostly in comparison to the Hugo. The AK240 has a tiny bit of CS4398 softness in comparison. Edit: Changed my mind listening to the Calyx again.
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 7:57 AM Post #777 of 2,125
   
What I've observed is that all DACs seem to have something of an individual sound signature, more noticeably when they are less well-implemented than when they are in some uber high-end DAC with gazillion dollar clocking and unmeasurably low noise and distortion. Everything else seems to have some degree or another of failure. (It's a concept based around an idea that how something fails to do what it is meant to that much is revealed about it.) I used to own an ES9018-based Calyx DAC 24/192 which is USB or 5V powered. Depending how it was set up, it either sounded flat and dull, or quite good. The Calyx M seems to be somewhat similar with its USB DAC feature.
 
The worse an ES9018 is set up, the more "flat" the music sounds, such as the DAC 24/192 using USB from a computer as source and power. 
The worse a BB/TI DAC is set up (either the old R2R ones or new SD ones) the more harsh and unpleasant they sound, eg: Luxman DA100 and DA200.
The worse a Wolfson is set up, it just loses resolution (which is why I think they were more popular in portable devices). They fail gracefully.
The worse a Cirrus Logic DAC is set up, the more dull they sound.
AKM DACs seem to have something of a graceful failure too. They seem to sound OK regardless of what they are in from cheap to expensive.
 
At least one manufacturer described the ES9018 as being like a Ferrari: You have to use the best parts and circuit always. 
 
So to me both the Calyx and Hifiman (with discrete card) sound a tiny bit flat to me mostly in comparison to the Hugo. The AK240 has a tiny bit of CS4398 softness in comparison. Edit: Changed my mind listening to the Calyx again.

Thanks Currawong.  Need to gain more experience like yours. Keep learning.  Cheers
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 8:08 AM Post #778 of 2,125
@flymetothemoon It's kind-of scary. I was lent a vintage DAC once, knowing nothing about it. On first listen I thought "It sounds like it has tubes or OPA627s in it." and on the latter guess I was right! 
 
A bit of an aside: I have contemplated the argument that the differences between a lot of these DAPs and DACs is really too small to matter. I've found those small differences to add up over many hours of listening. My air conditioner uses only half a cent more for each degree I turn it down during summer, but during the hot, humid summers here that adds up to a lot when you have it switched on all day and night almost the whole time!
 
Back to the Calyx (since I'm listening now) and I like it again. It's a bit clinical sounding (relatively) but not in a bad way. Someone who'd never heard anything more expensive sure as heck wouldn't notice and would be very impressed. In the absence of any experience with the new AK players it is on my recommended list, if one can tolerate how slowly it scans media. An almost full 128 GB micro-SD card takes quite a while to scan. I'm just going to leave it switched on and plug it into USB to charge when I'm not using it. I need to work out if I can get playlists onto it too.
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 8:16 AM Post #779 of 2,125
  Back to the Calyx (since I'm listening now) and I like it again. It's a bit clinical sounding (relatively) but not in a bad way. Someone who'd never heard anything more expensive sure as heck wouldn't notice and would be very impressed. In the absence of any experience with the new AK players it is on my recommended list, if one can tolerate how slowly it scans media. An almost full 128 GB micro-SD card takes quite a while to scan. I'm just going to leave it switched on and plug it into USB to charge when I'm not using it. I need to work out if I can get playlists onto it too.

 
I had this issue at one point and it turned out that the tags on some Foo Fighter files of mine were bunging things up. Once I retagged those the issue went away. I have an almost full 128 GB SD card installed on a permanent basis and it scans on start-up for changes in about a minute, two max. If you put in a new card of music, then it will take longer as it reads it all.
 
If there is a way to transfer Playlists on or off the M, I have not found it.
 
Sep 4, 2014 at 8:20 AM Post #780 of 2,125
 
  Back to the Calyx (since I'm listening now) and I like it again. It's a bit clinical sounding (relatively) but not in a bad way. Someone who'd never heard anything more expensive sure as heck wouldn't notice and would be very impressed. In the absence of any experience with the new AK players it is on my recommended list, if one can tolerate how slowly it scans media. An almost full 128 GB micro-SD card takes quite a while to scan. I'm just going to leave it switched on and plug it into USB to charge when I'm not using it. I need to work out if I can get playlists onto it too.

 
I had this issue at one point and it turned out that the tags on some Foo Fighter files of mine were bunging things up. Once I retagged those the issue went away. I have an almost full 128 GB SD card installed on a permanent basis and it scans on start-up for changes in about a minute, two max. If you put in a new card of music, then it will take longer as it reads it all.
 
If there is a way to transfer Playlists on or off the M, I have not found it.

 
That's very helpful. What was wrong with the tags on the files?
 

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