** Confessions of a Failing Audiophile ** - I hated the LCD2

[oqvist]

Quote:

I enjoyed the Rev1 more than the Rev2.  I found the basic setup and sound of the Edition 8 and LCD2s to be similar.  Same natural type setup with colorless presentation and balance between lows, mids and highs.  Very similar, but I found the clarity of the Edition 8 to be just as good as the Audeze and capable of the same thing with proper amping.  The upside it was vastly more comfortable and didn't leak any sound, the downside is the bass quality was horrendous and my set had some odd vibration issues.
 



Yay! 
 

 
 
 

Do you run your ED 8 and LCD-2 on the same setup? I think I found my polar opposite ears here at head-fi otherwise.  I would love to make my ED 8 to sound the same as my LCD-2 but I can´t see how that could happen. Their sound signature is a world apart for me. ED 8 is way closer to the HD 800 for my ears though they are also quite different. For me the LCD-2 is much clearer and very clearly less coloured and dynamic then the ED 8. Rev2 being considerably more transparent then the Rev1.
 
Tonal balance of the Rev2 is closer to the ED 8 as well on my systems so wonder why you preferred the Rev1? The only thing I can find is sometimes wanting something warmer and creamier. Both attributes the ED 8 doesn´t have at all. I do enjoy that headphone on my tube amp though

 

[disastermouse]

Quote:

I agree with you, completely and with all my soul.  It's art, and as I've said if it makes you happy, go for it and that my one set was the Edition 8 which I felt just fine in paying $1500 for at the time I got it.  For my happiness, its worth it.  For pure audio qualities, its not even remotely close to being justified. Thats my point behind all of this heh, don't be sucked into someone elses dream for pure status's sake
 
 
I definitely didn't "just find out about this" as you've said.  If anyone actually reads my reviews ( which you clearly have not ) you would know its not a new thing for me.

I ain't flaming you here, but there is no 'pure audio quality' reason to get into Hi-Fi cans.
 
Look, most of us get into this insanity WITH the mid-class cans - I sure did, and I've stayed there for nearly a year now - I don't even have a high-end amp....but that's where the epiphany is - THAT'S where it starts.  'ZOMG, I haven't even HEARD my music until now.'  That's where you get hooked.
 
As for whether the rest is 'worth it', that's all in the ear of the listener.  To you, it isn't - and that's cool with me.  But then you go off half-cocked thinking you should tell some makers and designers that they've failed.  They failed YOU - most of the rest of us know where Mr. Toad's Wild Ride could go and we accept that.
 
I'm sorry you got burned man, I really am.  Nothing sucks worse than being fully invested in something and having it not live up to expectations.  If you think it sucks about headphones, then maybe you haven't had quite the same rocky path with relationships that some of us have had (Consider yourself blessed if this IS the case).  In the end, headphones are just consumer products made by strangers who happen to have a similar passion.
 

 

[swbf2cheater]

I never said I got into Hi Fi to satisfy Quality needs. 

 

[Canadian411]

Quote:

 

Have you ever tried the Beyer DT990's?

 
Are you kidding ? Beyerdynamic DT990 is not in the same league.
 
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Man, this thread really imploded.
 
I would say you're all right.
 
The nuances offered by flagships are absolutely worth it for those of with growing "cost-no-object" budgets.
 
- which is not mutually exclusive to:
 
The orthodynamics are too damn heavy and uncomfortable for ideal long term listening -- I'm 24 with a sturdy neck and no history of neck or spinal health problems, but I simply find 1.21lbs (pounds) on my head unnecessarily distracting!

 

[dspang]

You know the way I see it, the major problem that tends to happen when getting into hi-fi is one of the main focuses that its there for in the first place gets lost often.  That's the music.  We do this for a love of music.  The thing is, its so easy to get wound up in the EQUIPMENT aspect of making that music sound as good as possible.  Words like "micro-detail" and "neutral" often get thrown around in the place of musicality I feel.  What do we all like more here?  Do we want to hear the music as close to how it was meant to be heard?  To what end?  There seems to be this obsessive journey in recreating it just like it sounded in the studio.  For a decent amount of money one can do that quite well.  Yet just enjoying the music with good sound quality gets so lost in all of this I feel.  I have an Ultrasone hfi 780 and Audio Technica M50.  I really don't feel that I need to venture into the price brackets above 300 or more because when you get into those realms you need amps, dacs, high quality files, high quality recordings gah!!  This all becomes a chore.  At what point do you stop enjoying the music and start treating it as a job to make the music sound good?  I have a few low priced amps like a fiio and pa2v2.  Oh and a nuforce udac.   These things have all made me incredibly happy with my time here at head-fi.  If one wants the uber-high-tech stuff.  That's all good.  Always keep in mind this is about listening to the music and enjoying it to the best ends we know how.

 

[MorbidToaster]

I am currently going through the same process as you (OP) in that I hit the high end (not quite the extent you did) and am not back to mid-fi. 
 
I seem to have come to a different conclusion that you, but agree with you most of the way. I've realized that diminishing returns are to be expected beyond the HD 598 (I really do think it's the best headphone ever price/performance wise) but I've also decided that music is something I love dearly and while the improvement may only be 10%...why not go for it if it's something you love and enjoy as much as I do?
 
I'm in no way saying you don't care about music. I'm just pointing out that we've been on a similar path to the point of deciding whether to move back up to the high end or not. I've decided I want that extra 10%, and you haven't. I think you're completely justified in not moving back up, and I kind of wish I weren't...but after exploring more hobbies this is one that makes me extremely happy and I want all I can get out of it. 
 
My next planned purchase (ironically): Rev. 2 LCD 2

 

[audiogamma]

Quote:

 
mid fi is the way to go  

Yesssss. I sold my m903 and T1. I am content with my Apogee Duet, Senn HD25 and CK10s. If that's not mid-fi, nothing is.
 

 

[ianmedium]

LOL no, I will bet you anything the LCD2 doesn't cost more than $200 in materials, if even that. The margins on the LCD2 are at least half of the price you are paying, I bet it's more. 
 
I would love for nothing more than the "high tier" market to die out, it's a market for people with money to burn and fools who have better things to spend on but choose to drink in the snake oil.

You say this as an attack. Do you realize that you can name any product out there and find the margins similar if not greater.

When you go to your favourite chain store burger outlet (the stupidity of your comment suggests that is the sort of establishment you would eat in after all!) that of the $7 for your happy meal materials and costs amount to around 43 cents? Most food establishments that are higher quality work on a 300% mark up and don't even get me started on the Nike trainers you probably wear or the name brand shirt you have on.

dollar for dollar I can pretty much assure you Audeze are not making anywhere near what the main stream headphone manufactures are making in mark up.

What about costing in R&D? labour, advertising, renting buildings to make them in? Even if that comes to half the cost as you suggest the profit margin is no more than respectable. Would you like your wage cut in half because I thought what you do was not worth what you think it is? Did you know that the costing I gave for your burger includes all of that as well!!

To the OP, i had a more gracious response in my previous post to you. However having read your thoughts now you have just shot yourself in the foot as a hater. You obviously have some sort of axe to grind. The consensus out there of enthusiasts like myself as well as professional reviewers is that the LCD's are very good headphones indeed, good enough to compare and often beat in many instances heapdhones several hundred as well as several thousands of dollars more. Also. I have heard the fabled moded fostex headphones and yes, they sound great, do they sound as good as the LCD's? No, absolutely not.

If you cannot hear the difference then I suggest you have your hearing checked as it is quite obvious even to these absused 47 year old ears!

As to comfort. Ah yes, the last old chestnut of attack for the LCD haters. I scratch my head and wonder about this often as I find these headphones supremely comfortable as do ever single friend I have lent them to for extended listening.

 

[swbf2cheater]

Quote:

I am currently going through the same process as you (OP) in that I hit the high end (not quite the extent you did) and am not back to mid-fi. 
 
I seem to have come to a different conclusion that you, but agree with you most of the way. I've realized that diminishing returns are to be expected beyond the HD 598 (I really do think it's the best headphone ever price/performance wise) but I've also decided that music is something I love dearly and while the improvement may only be 10%...why not go for it if it's something you love and enjoy as much as I do?
 
I'm in no way saying you don't care about music. I'm just pointing out that we've been on a similar path to the point of deciding whether to move back up to the high end or not. I've decided I want that extra 10%, and you haven't. I think you're completely justified in not moving back up, and I kind of wish I weren't...but after exploring more hobbies this is one that makes me extremely happy and I want all I can get out of it. 
 
My next planned purchase (ironically): Rev. 2 LCD 2

You are definitely right.  I did it for the love of my music, which is why I am so fond of the top mid range sets for their overall fun factor, usability, comfort ( sometimes ) and cost.  I love my HD 598, but even it has some exterior design flaws that I am not at all fond of, but at least it is moderately light and very comfortable and pretty much everything sounds great on it, easily driven, great for online gaming and movies.  Sets that can do all of that  and that are affordable and do not require anything beyond a decent source and flac are sets that I much prefer.   
 
It became silly to me, I just spent $1000 on headphones I can't even use unless I have a super giga mega awesome amp, source AND a replacement cable because the stock cable was crap?  This isn't the 1800s lol, we shouldn't need an amp at all and those garden hose cables should not even exist in this world.  In fact, no cables should exist.  Everything should be totally wireless by now with no quality loss
 
just my 2cents, cheers! 
 
-Mike
 
 

 

[TwoTrack]

I love the LCD2 but I hate the Senn HD800.  Does that make me a failed audiophile as well? 

 

[Digital-Pride]

Quote:

I love the LCD2 but I hate the Senn HD800.  Does that make me a failed audiophile as well? 

No, but being a fan of Will Ferrell's movies does.

 

[MorbidToaster]

Well you COULD just spend a grand on headphones, and 200 bucks on a fully refurbished 70s receiver. I think headphone amps are a little ridiculous when receivers are so cheap nowadays.
 
Quote:

You are definitely right.  I did it for the love of my music, which is why I am so fond of the top mid range sets for their overall fun factor, usability, comfort ( sometimes ) and cost.  I love my HD 598, but even it has some exterior design flaws that I am not at all fond of, but at least it is moderately light and very comfortable and pretty much everything sounds great on it, easily driven, great for online gaming and movies.  Sets that can do all of that  and that are affordable and do not require anything beyond a decent source and flac are sets that I much prefer.   
 
It became silly to me, I just spent $1000 on headphones I can't even use unless I have a super giga mega awesome amp, source AND a replacement cable because the stock cable was crap?  This isn't the 1800s lol, we shouldn't need an amp at all and those garden hose cables should not even exist in this world.  In fact, no cables should exist.  Everything should be totally wireless by now with no quality loss
 
just my 2cents, cheers! 
 
-Mike
 
 

 
 

 

[WNBC]

Excellent points.  I know I'm stopping at the LCD-2 rev2, not moving up or back down.  I don't have as much time and money spent in this hobby as the OP but I do understand his rant based on my experiences with other hobbies like photography.  After much money spent I realized it's not about the equipment but it was a hard lesson.  Better equipment may result in higher technical quality images but not necessarily better pictures.  Same in audio, better equipment might be technically more faithful to the sound but that does not mean the music is more or less enjoyable.  I imagine that the OP has come to this realization after much exhaustion of different avenues of headphones.  
 
Until somebody tells me the actual cost of R&D and manufacturing costs for the LCD-2 we do not know how much we overpaid.  We over pay every time we go to a bar but that's ok, we know that going into the bar.  Same with headphones.  Somebody saying the LCD-2 is only 10-20% better than HD598 is the epitome of subjectiveness because I can say the LCD-2 75% better than HD598 but maybe only 50% better than HD650.  Nobody is right, nobody is wrong here.  
 
Some people like Milky Way bars, some like Snickers (75% better in my opinion) but it's fine.  LCD-2 is not for you and that's cool.  The HD598 is not for me, I had 2 of them.  
 
 
Quote:

I am currently going through the same process as you (OP) in that I hit the high end (not quite the extent you did) and am not back to mid-fi. 
 
I seem to have come to a different conclusion that you, but agree with you most of the way. I've realized that diminishing returns are to be expected beyond the HD 598 (I really do think it's the best headphone ever price/performance wise) but I've also decided that music is something I love dearly and while the improvement may only be 10%...why not go for it if it's something you love and enjoy as much as I do?
 
I'm in no way saying you don't care about music. I'm just pointing out that we've been on a similar path to the point of deciding whether to move back up to the high end or not. I've decided I want that extra 10%, and you haven't. I think you're completely justified in not moving back up, and I kind of wish I weren't...but after exploring more hobbies this is one that makes me extremely happy and I want all I can get out of it. 
 
My next planned purchase (ironically): Rev. 2 LCD 2

 

 

[WNBC]

Was there a lot of peer pressure to buy these giga amps, sources and replacement cables?  I don't think many of us feel that pressure because we're not competing with friends (none of my friends have mid-fi gear) and this website is anonymous so it's fine if you have more hi-end gear than me.  Maybe I came in at the right time in this hobby as well.  The $450 Lyr drives the LCD-2 pretty well.  
 
I can see it now, death by cancer due to too much wireless streaming of Gaga 

 
Quote:

It became silly to me, I just spent $1000 on headphones I can't even use unless I have a super giga mega awesome amp, source AND a replacement cable because the stock cable was crap?  This isn't the 1800s lol, we shouldn't need an amp at all and those garden hose cables should not even exist in this world.  In fact, no cables should exist.  Everything should be totally wireless by now with no quality loss
 
just my 2cents, cheers! 
 
-Mike