[moodyrn]

Hrt music streamer, centrance dac port, dragon fly to name a few. Dacs have come a long way the past few years. 300.00 can buy you what 1000.00 use to buy you five years ago.

 

[LugBug1]

To be fair there's not many 'bad' dacs these days, as long as you aren't using your computer soundcard or ipod direct. The very cheap original Vdac is still my recommendation for anyone's first. Also, most of these vintage amps, particularly the older ones (late 60's early 70's) colour the sound to a degree that if you were to buy an uber TOTL dac then you would be wasting your money imo. I love what these old amps do to the music, they present it in such an organic -musical way. And so as long as you have a half decent dac then it should pair well with most of these old amps. 
 
of course the SX 1980 and the like may be able to show what a TOTL dac can do... But unfortunately I don't have one.
 
 
(there must be something in the air at the moment... I had just finished changing a few amps round (as I tend to do... All of the time ) and while I was pushing my cabinet back I heard a big bang. I also seen a flash. Smelled smoke too. The trip switch had been flipped and so I went to flip it back on. I moved my cabinet forward and looked for the damage... I churlishly bent down and followed my nose to were the burning smell was coming from. It was coming from the adapter that is connected to my Marantz 2220. The marantz hadn't been switched on, but the plug must have been forced out a little, so when I pushed the cabinet back it must have caused a short? Not sure how... but anyway's.. Phewwwee..! That was a close one. All my amps still working and the only damage was to my underpants 

.)  
 
 

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

I don't want to get off topic, but what is a good USB DAC only(no amp) for about $200-$300? I don't need anything too crazy, just better than the E17 at a good price.

 
I've owned lots of dac. The best in that price range is the odac with RCA outs by jds labs. Audio Poutine also makes one...he ships out of Canada though. The odac is a very good usb dac IMO.

 

[jasonb]

Which HRT music streamer do you recommend? I'm seeing quite a few different models. I would want something transparent, nothing with extra bass, or nothing that sounds cold. Just transparent and accurate. 99% of my music is either 256k AAC from iTunes or 320k MP3 from MOG. I have nothing in any higher bitrate, so a DAC that works with formats higher than 96/24 is useless to me.
Quote:

Hrt music streamer, centrance dac port, dragon fly to name a few. Dacs have come a long way the past few years. 300.00 can buy you what 1000.00 use to buy you five years ago.

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

To be fair there's not many 'bad' dacs these days, as long as you aren't using your computer soundcard or ipod direct. The very cheap original Vdac is still my recommendation for anyone's first. Also, most of these vintage amps, particularly the older ones (late 60's early 70's) colour the sound to a degree that if you were to buy an uber TOTL dac then you would be wasting your money imo. I love what these old amps do to the music, they present it in such an organic -musical way. And so as long as you have a half decent dac then it should pair well with most of these old amps. 
 
of course the SX 1980 and the like may be able to show what a TOTL dac can do... But unfortunately I don't have one.
 
 
(there must be something in the air at the moment... I had just finished changing a few amps round (as I tend to do... All of the time ) and while I was pushing my cabinet back I heard a big bang. I also seen a flash. Smelled smoke too. The trip switch had been flipped and so I went to flip it back on. I moved my cabinet forward and looked for the damage... I churlishly bent down and followed my nose to were the burning smell was coming from. It was coming from the adapter that is connected to my Marantz 2220. The marantz hadn't been switched on, but the plug must have been forced out a little, so when I pushed the cabinet back it must have caused a short? Not sure how... but anyway's.. Phewwwee..! That was a close one. All my amps still working and the only damage was to my underpants 

.)  
 
 

 
Whew!! Glad that there was no real trouble. I bought a used high end power cable once. Went to plug it in and BANG...loud pop. The previous owner had covered up some damage to the cable with heat shrink tubing. I guess that it arced. I was plugging it into my new lyr which was brand new. Scared the bejezzus out of me. 

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

 
Whew!! Glad that there was no real trouble. I bought a used high end power cable once. Went to plug it in and BANG...loud pop. The previous owner had covered up some damage to the cable with heat shrink tubing. I guess that it arced. I was plugging it into my new lyr which was brand new. Scared the bejezzus out of me. 

Thanks bud. I got quite a fright, it was such a loud bang! Makes you wonder what it would be like to get a full electric shock... You hear about people flying across the room n stuff 

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:

Also, most of these vintage amps, particularly the older ones (late 60's early 70's) colour the sound to a degree that if you were to buy an uber TOTL dac then you would be wasting your money imo. 
 

I have to disagree with that statement. Vintage gear is just like modern gear in a sense the higher up the chain you get, the better they scale with other equipement. You would never spend a grand on a dac for a budget modern amp, just like you wouldn't do that for a lower end vintage model. But I have a few dacs ranging from 500.00 to 1000.00 and all of my totl vintage amps improved a great deal going from my 500.00 dac to my 1000.00 one. There's even a noticeable difference between my 800.00 dac and my 1000.00 dac.  As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just in another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.
 
There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.
Quote:

Which HRT music streamer do you recommend? I'm seeing quite a few different models. I would want something transparent, nothing with extra bass, or nothing that sounds cold. Just transparent and accurate. 99% of my music is either 256k AAC from iTunes or 320k MP3 from MOG. I have nothing in any higher bitrate, so a DAC that works with formats higher than 96/24 is useless to me.

They all have received good reviews. The musical fidelity vdac's are also a good recommendation. In that price class, I've personally owned the music streamer II+, vdac II and they both were good. I also owned a music streamer pro which is a bit better than the II+ to my ears. Although the retail is at 500.00, you can get them cheaper than the II+ now since it's been replaced making it an excellent value, but it can be very fussy with usb cables because of the power requirements. So for that reason I would recommend the II+ for that reason. 
 
But in this day and time, given the advances in dac design and chips, most all of them in that price range are going to be good. Even the odac at much less than 200.00 have many, many fans.

 

[jasonb]

Quote:

I have to disagree with that statement. Vintage gear is just like modern gear in a sense the higher up the chain you get, the better they scale with other equipement. You would never spend a grand on a dac for a budget modern amp, just like you wouldn't do that for a lower end vintage model. But I have a few dacs ranging from 500.00 to 1000.00 and all of my totl vintage amps improved a great deal going from my 500.00 dac to my 1000.00 one. There's even a noticeable difference between my 800.00 dac and my 1000.00 dac.  As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.
 
There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.
They all have received good reviews. The musical fidelity vdac's are also a good recommendation. In that price class, I've personally owned the music streamer II+, vdac II and they both were good. I also owned a music streamer pro which is a bit better than the II+ to my ears. Although the retail is at 500.00, you can get them cheaper than the II+ now since it's been replaced making it an excellent value, but it can be very fussy with usb cables because of the power requirements. So for that reason I would recommend the II+ for that reason. 
 
But in this day and time, given the advances in dac design and chips, most all of them in that price range are going to be good. Even the odac at much less than 200.00 have many, many fans.

So the Odac should sound noticeably better than the E17? 

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

I have to disagree with that statement. Vintage gear is just like modern gear in a sense the higher up the chain you get, the better they scale with other equipement. You would never spend a grand on a dac for a budget modern amp, just like you wouldn't do that for a lower end vintage model. But I have a few dacs ranging from 500.00 to 1000.00 and all of my totl vintage amps improved a great deal going from my 500.00 dac to my 1000.00 one. There's even a noticeable difference between my 800.00 dac and my 1000.00 dac.  As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.
 
There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.
They all have received good reviews. The musical fidelity vdac's are also a good recommendation. In that price class, I've personally owned the music streamer II+, vdac II and they both were good. I also owned a music streamer pro which is a bit better than the II+ to my ears. Although the retail is at 500.00, you can get them cheaper than the II+ now since it's been replaced making it an excellent value, but it can be very fussy with usb cables because of the power requirements. So for that reason I would recommend the II+ for that reason. 
 
But in this day and time, given the advances in dac design and chips, most all of them in that price range are going to be good. Even the odac at much less than 200.00 have many, many fans.

 
Yes, I'll certainly agree here. The gap between the sx650 and sx1280 is really hard for me to believe. Yet I hear it every time I turn on the 1280. 

 

[LugBug1]

I would also recommend the Beresford dacs too, very good value for money. Particularly with these high powered vintage amps because they have good pre-outs so you can control the dac volume to your amp. Helpful for those who want a little more freedom on the volume pot. 
 
I currently use the Dacmagic and Rdac. And really have no need to pay a lot more for anything better. I also have a 'vintage' Arcam Black Box which has a lovely tone but is a little too warm to pair with my current vintage amps. 

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:

So the Odac should sound noticeably better than the E17? 

I can't really say, since I've heard neither. But just it does have many fans. But some of the other other dacs I mention, I've owned personally and can fully recommend any of those in your price range.

 

[kstuart]

Quote:

So the Odac should sound noticeably better than the E17? 

If you are looking in that price range, there is a high turnover in Music Streamer 2 (without the plus), for $100-$120.  It has asynchronous USB (which IIRC the odac does not have).   The HRT and Schiit gear both have analog sections designed by guys who have done $10,000 amps.  The Schiit Modi should be comparable to the MS2, is $100 and again, has a 14-day trial (the trial only costs you the shipping).

 

[kstuart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moodyrn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just in another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.
 
There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.

I'd really like some more input from people on this point, and perhaps more specifics.
 
You mention the 650 vs 1280, yet the 1280 is not "top of the line".
 
How can we tell when the difference between two models is just power rating (which above a certain level only affects speakers or HE-6), and when the difference is actually other things that affect sound quality ?

 

[5aces]

$450 for a SX-1280 in good condition is a very good deal. These days they mostly go for much, much more.

I let this one pass up here, somebody got the deal of the year for sure an SX 1980:

I wish I could find deals like that here in Canadia. I paid a touch over 1000 for my Pioneer SX-5590

 

[moodyrn]

I've already covered this in a previous post a few pages back. the 1280 is the newer version of the 1250 which was totl. And the 1980 is just something different altogether that's in a class of it's own. Very few receivers were ever produced in this class with marantz 2500/2600, sansui g22000/33000 being among them. But as I said previously, the difference between the two is far, far greater than the power they produced. All one have to do is to take a look under the hood to see exactly what I'm talking about. Better yet, here's some pics and you can see for your self.