[adydula]

Terry,

We chatted over in audiocircle back in 2013 when I had both the 701's and LCD2's....I always liked the akg's for their clarity, openess, soundstage. But back then I wanted to hear for myself how these latest and greatest Audeze sound...I sold the 701's and moved on....I actually bought a second set (great deal thing..) to see if I had made a mistake...well I sold the second set as well even though I liked the clarity and soundstage, they just were not there musically for me and I am one who never uses tone controls ...

I have gone the vintage receiver route, but being a objective guy from years of being an electronics technican working with all kinds of circuits and testing, I looked for electronics that had enough power to drive whatever transducer while being as neutral as possible, in all the areas that we measure or think impact the overall sound or freq spec.

Having 9 head amp posibilites and three dacs, I can play around with many permutations and have done many hours of ab testing and some blind AB testing....

I would like you to try an amp and dac other than your AVR's to see if the T90's change in anyway? I am wondering if the AVR's have any impact on what your experiencing...depending on what the impedance is at the listening freq's and what the AVR is doing at the same time might influence the outcome? Maybe not.

I also would try listening in a neutral environment, ie no tone control manipulation. Your not the average listener and listen alot more carefully than most, which I think is a good thing....its part of the hobby that always intrigues me...the objective listening experience vs subjective analysis..the truth is most likely in between!

When I found similiar experiences like your T90 experience I usually sold them just because I decided that no matter what neutral system I used or stuff added like tone control tuning, I could not get rid of the feeling that there was something wrong or missing...

To me the T90's are pretty close in this price range to being really a good set of cans....lacking IMO in the low end and fullness and no bass boost made up in that area for me.
The T'1's do this for me with my "neutral" amps...

All the best
Alex

 

[terry parr]

Appreciate your reply, Alex. I remember you posting some examples of your work over on A/C when you were putting together some h/p amps of your own, and I remember being very impressed with the clean-looking circuit boards and the professional-looking examples of your soldering technique and the careful way the components looked when placed on the board. Your examples certainly didn't look like the work of a hobbyist, but of someone who was "in the trade."

Of course, you guys lost me very quickly when back-and-forth talk between you guys started to get technical, as to what particular component was used where, and why. For a non-technical person like me, just casually following along, you guys "got into the weeds" (and into the thick of the technical details) rather quickly!

The caveat for me, as far as dedicated h/p amps go, is the absolute lack of being able to adjust the sound in any way, since most dedicated headphone amps don't have tone controls. To me, it's always seemed that "you're stuck with the music as is", if you're listening through a dedicated h/p amp. And, what if the recording is shrill-sounding to you, (just to give one example), if you're listening through a dedicated h/p amp, (which doesn't give you the option of dialing-back the treble,even just a bit) I guess you'd come away with the opinion that the recording was shrill. (Which it may be. But, you could make it sound less shrill if you had at least some control of the sound before it reaches the headphones). You get my point.

Alex, your suggestions were noted, sir. I appreciate your knowledgeable response, and for you taking the time.



Switching gears here for a sec, this is for you, Alex, or for anyone else here reading: The slider adjustment on the right side of my T90's will not stay in place when I put the headphones down. When I pick the headphones back up, the adjustment has moved. This is a small quibble, but enough to be a bit annoying. Anybody with any tips or tricks? Oh, and another thing. The owners' manual ( glossy pamphlet) that ships with these phones gives you no information on replacing any parts, such as the parts to the sliders, no information on how to properly remove and replace pads...nothing along those lines. (Just a history of beyerdynamic, and marketing verbiage written in ten different languages!)

 

[adydula]

Hey Terry,

Totally understand....yes we are indeed stuck with a lot of poorly recorded music....and I find myself spending looking for the best recordings of a particular
band, song, etc...

I started the Outstandoing Demo Cd's in the SalkSound Circle at audiocircle.com

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=27q9et8nl1aaleqpa9prdnbe64&board=82.0

I did this because I realized how much crap is out there....and lots of it I really like and on a good system or set of HP's it sounds like well...crap to me!
No matter how much I tried to make it better with treble and bass contols, it never really fixed the deficiencies in the recording...much of the early stuff sounds
shrill, compressed, tinny and just awful..but way back in the car radio it did the trick!! LOL....

Even when I had my Sony STR 6065, the tone controls were always in the flat position,,,,it was kind of sacro sanct to use them if you were a purist!!

Many folks play with equalizer software to tune things to there liking....I always took the hard road and tried to get the best recording, the best electronics and best
transducers....striving for that audio perfection..

That said, into LoneWolf on the circle and he sent me a bunch of stellar recordings and pointed me to many others that when I play "flat" are about as good as it gets
with the stuff we have today. The lllusion is really nice at times.

I do use tone controls in one situation with a set of bookshelf speakers that are located by my PC system and where they are they are too boomy, so I cut the bass down just a tad and
boost the treble just a tad...the speakers are pretty flat but the dictated room décor and placement make it impossible to reproduce faithfully...a compromise but not too bad.

At least using headhones this room sonics thing is very much minimized.

Alex

 

[pp312]

The slider adjustment on the right side of my T90's will not stay in place when I put the headphones down. When I pick the headphones back up, the adjustment has moved. This is a small quibble, but enough to be a bit annoying. Anybody with any tips or tricks?

This is typical Beyer problem with no universal solution. It also afflicts the DT880 and--I presume--the DT990. My response with the DT880 was to drill through the middle of the plastic where it clamps the band and insert a small flat end screw to stop the sliding. Others try things like tape wrapped around the band, but I think that could get messy. As I say, there's no universal solution, and it's something Beyer should be addressing.

I currently have the DT90 and have been considering a review, but I'm too lazy. In a nutshell though, I'm enormously impressed. Coupled with either my Marantz PM5005 or Beyer A2 Chinese clone (particularly the latter) I'm getting closer to a concert hall in my home (or head) than ever before, and I've been using headphones since 1968. Yes, I'm an old fogey, 71 in December, but apart from a little tinnitus my ears have worn well and I can still readily pick subtle differences between amps. My age probably rules out a problem with the 6--9khz peak in the T90, but that aside the sound is remarkable-- even at full retail I would consider the T90 a bargain.

Interestingly perhaps, I was far less impressed with the T1; it just didn't seem as realistic to me. Have no explanation for that, though I should explain that I listen exclusively to classical/orchestral, so maybe I'm listening for different things than lovers of more popular genres. In any case I'm pretty sure the T90 is end game for me--maybe literally at my age.

 

[terry parr]

As a new owner of the T90, I've been reading through this thread, looking to pick up some useful information here and there, and learn a thing or two based on other peoples' experiences. I wanted to come across a few posts where people are talking about this very thing and get other peoples' opinions on it (and what they have tried) before I tried to pry-off those plastic "stays" that look to me like they'd pop off and then click back into place. But, I didn't want to go and damage them if they didn't snap back on.

I could get some material that has some grip to it (like a kitchen cabinet liner) and carefully wedge a small piece of that under that area that attaches to the adjustment band. Right now, my solution has been to extend my index fingers placing them under those plastic stays when pulling the headphones off and when picking them up. Instead of just grabbing them by the earcups.

I still say the T90 is a fine headphone and well-engineered (where it counts the most. After all, if I didn't care for the sound of a headphone, then it wouldn't matter how comfy they were, or whether the headband adjustment stayed in place!) This particular design imperfection can be overcome. As long as the actual fit of the headphones doesn't loosen up over time (because it's about perfect right now, but I don't think I'd like them to fit any looser than they do now). But, I can probably come up with something as far as keeping the adjustment band in place. I just wanted to throw the question out here before taking a small, flathead screwdriver to those pieces that attach to the metal headband. I wasn't sure if there was a small metal bracket underneath those stays that needed tightening-up (or snapping back into place). Or, whether or not the stays themselves are what fits into those tiny indentions (and that's it, as far as keeping the adjustment in place). I didn't know what else might be under there, but I didn't want to dis-assemble part of my headphone to find out!

Yes, these are good times if you're a serious music listener and spend most of your time under headphones enjoying your music rather than using loudspeakers. There's much more choice out there these days, than there was not that long ago.

 

[borrego]

As a part time sound engineer, I am always a big fan of the 1st generation Tesla line of Beyerdynamic headphones. To me, this line of headphones produces the most "proper" acoustic (not sound) from any dynamic headphone manufactured. You can see I own nearly every 1st generation Tesla models.

In recent years, more and more people evaluate headphones through technical "sound" measurements, leading to a new school of belief that every treble spike and ringing out from a headphone must be dampened out. DIY headphone modifiers are stuffing their headphones with dynamats and sobothane. To me, music come out from those over dampened headphones are like music performed inside a sound proof CIA interrogation room: One would find no real life music performing environment reproduce those weird acoustics.

Too bad Beyerdynamic have to tune the 2nd generation Tesla headphones to "sound" rather than to "acoustic"

The T90 is the most "fun sounding" model of all the 1st gen Tesla models, and a great value comparing to other fun sounding open headphones like the Grado GS1000e.

The T1, remains the pinnacle of "acoustically proper" dynamic headphones: Think of it as a "3D" and "even more proper" version of the T90 which scales near endlessly with better DACs/DDCs and recordings.

 

[adydula]

I finally looked at my 2+ year old T90's and the adjustments stay put when I take them off...hundreds of hours on them.

When I adjust there is a slight detent sound or feeling it they are pretty stable for me?

They do wiggle easily side to side if I grab the headphone and move it parallel to my ear...

These are def. the first gen cans....sound great.

Use them on a Schitt Vahalla 2 and a Bottlehead Crack with their Speedball mod. Also on a variety if DIY amps.

After playing with my T1's I put the T90's on and immediately think "wow these are so clear!!!" why did
I spend all the money on the T1's. But after a few minutes with the T1's I find myself thinking that the T90's
are lacking in the overall musical presentation.....maybe the perfection is somewhere in between!!

That said I am very content with both!

Listening to the T90s now on a Onkyo TX 8050 receiver (terry with tone controls!! lol)...and they sound ok, but the AVR
is really "muddy compared to my other discrete amp and dac combinations....even with the tone controls set in neutral.

Enjoy!
Alex

 

[adydula]

I could'nt stand the muffled sound with the receiver (the Onkyo is a rather new 3+ yrs old) nothing like the old vintage stuff for sure.

So I tried a new setup that I was going to play with someday, but my recent prostate cancer removal crap got in the way!!

I am going from my PC with Jriver MC 23 to a HRT MSii+ asynchronous dac to my DIY ODA (designed by my good friend AGDR of DIYaudio and agdraudio.com). Its what the O2 might have been if the designer didnt disappear!! Ha!

But in this combination I am using the new Burson Cable + Pro active impedance matching cables. RCA from the Dac to the Amp.

The difference is jaw dropping the T90s are in its glory...clean, articulate, well balanced....if I never heard anything else these would make me very content!

The ODA amp I built is described over at diyaudio.com. Unfortunately some of its parts are no longer made..so its a real rarity now and a keeper.

Happy Sunday!
Alex

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Amazing bass and soundstage depth! But the mids is lack in clarity as compare to the stock pad. It used to be more natural with the stock pads but more of a fun sounding headphones with this pad. I am also not sure if I should call it a V-shaped sound with the angled earpad since the treble harshness is completely gone now.

 

[pp312]

I finally looked at my 2+ year old T90's and the adjustments stay put when I take them off...hundreds of hours on them.

When I adjust there is a slight detent sound or feeling it they are pretty stable for me?

After playing with my T1's I put the T90's on and immediately think "wow these are so clear!!!" why did
I spend all the money on the T1's. But after a few minutes with the T1's I find myself thinking that the T90's
are lacking in the overall musical presentation.....maybe the perfection is somewhere in between!!

My impression is that the T90 reproduces light and shadow where appropriate whereas the T1 is in full sunlight all the time, so that I feel like I need aural sunglasses. In short, I just found the T1 too bright, and not realistic. I don't hear the T90 as 'fun' sounding, just accurate. Though I've owned hundreds of different phones over the years (or should that be 'ears'?). including Stax electrostatics in the 80s, and more recently the LCD 2 and HE500, I've never really had a true sense of a 'concert hall in the home' until I listened to the T90--that's how good they seem to me. When I read that the T90s 'lack in overall musical presentation'...well, it just shows how we all hear differently.

 

[adydula]

Yes I guess we all do hear differently to some extent...I always have a hard time using the right adjectives and we all interpret these differently.
I hear many people stating the T90s are bright,hard, harsh on the upper end....your saying the T1's are bright? Thats interesting.

The T1's sound like they are indeed less clear than the T90s, but it may be the overall background is just really quiet because to me all the sounds I hear
clearer on the T90s are there in the T1's plus more, especially bass extension, they appear "quieter"?

So at first it seems like the T1's might be lacking or missing some sounds, but IMO its not, all is coming thru but from a quieter background.

Anyway I like them both but side with the T1's with my music and electronics..

Alex

 

[Storydog]

I have my T 90 since December 2015, and no problems with slider adjustment so far.
Material qualitiy and optical condtion are still very good or in vinyl term - near mint.

Playtime in month so five till seven hours - lacking time and a few other headphones.
It reveals still on very good records little weaknesses. And the famous Beyer Peak is unknown to me, because of higher output impedance of my hifi amplifiers, maybe it is on my ears, too. In single cases bass seems stronger than normal. Because the output impedance?

 

[Storydog]

I have my T 90 since December 2015, and no problems with slider adjustment so far.
Material qualitiy and optical condtion are still very good or in vinyl term - near mint.

Playtime in month so five till seven hours - lacking time and a few other headphones.
It reveals still on very good records little weaknesses. And the famous Beyer Peak is unknown to me, because of higher output impedance of my hifi amplifiers, maybe it is on my ears, too. In single cases bass seems stronger than normal. Because the output impedance?

 

[Storydog]

I have my T 90 since December 2015, and no problems with slider adjustment so far.
Material qualitiy and optical condtion are still very good or in vinyl term - near mint.

Playtime in month so five till seven hours - lacking time and a few other headphones.
It reveals still on very good records little weaknesses. And the famous Beyer Peak is unknown to me, because of higher output impedance of my hifi amplifiers, maybe it is on my ears, too. In single cases bass seems stronger than normal. Because the output impedance?

 

[Storydog]

I have my T 90 since December 2015, and no problems with slider adjustment so far.
Material qualitiy and optical condtion are still very good or in vinyl term - near mint.

Playtime in month so five till seven hours - lacking time and a few other headphones.
It reveals still on very good records little weaknesses. And the famous Beyer Peak is unknown to me, because of higher output impedance of my hifi amplifiers, maybe it is on my ears, too. In single cases bass seems stronger than normal. Because the output impedance?