Beyerdynamic T90 Discussion and Support Thread

[terry parr]

Listening to this same recording on the AKG K701 h/p, those ringing, distortion artifacts are less noticeable and I'm able to actually enjoy listening. The T90 makes this recording sound as if the master volume on the control board was too high. It doesn't exactly sound like "clipping", per se, but when a note or chord is allowed to sustain, that's when the overtones and harmonics sound distorted. You still hear this on the 701, but it's not as pronounced, so the music isn't ruined.

I stayed with the 701 to put on the album Of One Mind by the Pete Malinverni Trio, (which I had been listening to previously with the T90), and the music sounded better through the 701's.
Piano note and chord decays sounded better, the drummer's brushes against the coated snare drum head sounded more realistic. And the bass presentation was acceptable (though what was missing was a bit of texture (for lack of a better word) from the stand-up bass, which I would've heard through the T90).

I then put on the tune "Twilight World" by Swing Out Sister and compared to the T90, the 701's give you a better sense of space and openness (larger soundstage) and with enough impact in the bass to make this tune fun to listen to. All vocals were well-extended but very clean and clear. There's not a hint of distortion anywhere. And every element in this mix was easy to hear. The T90 has a tendency to place certain elements in a busy mix further back than the 701's do.

I don't know.

Right now I'm thinking that I might have to turn-in my T90 fan club card. These headphones still aren't quite doing it. Not for the music that I like to listen to.

I just decided to put the T90's on a schedule to play music through them, and get some hours on these headphones to see if they improve with some breaking-in. The receiver is tuned to a classical music station, so that'll provide some fairly wide dynamic swings (especially during the orchestral pieces). This isn't a "forced burn-in" as the volume isn't set any louder than I'd normally listen at. And, it's music, not pink noise. And, they won't play continuously. But, at least a few hours at the time.

We'll see. The jury is still out on these headphones. Right now the verdict is this h/p is not an ideal one for acoustic jazz.

Enjoy the music, everybody!

 

[adydula]

Terry,
If the original recording is deficient I dont think any upsampling would make things better, if the data isnt there in the source (bits 1's and 0's) from the dac conversion etc..its just not there.
The only way to make things "better" to me is a re-mastering of the original source tapes, and this is only if the original tapes were not mastered well....
The popular trend now seems record companies are re-issuing old stuff under the re-mastered banner...some still sound like crap others well sound "better or different".

Listening to the original Cowboy Junkies Trinity stuff and then listening to the 10 yr after anniversary recording the original one IMO is much better than the new one!!! Ha! Go figure.

I would be glad to send you one of my O2 amps for you to play with, I dont have a DAC to spare though....the ODAC is a $99 option?

Alex

 

[terry parr]

The Trinity Session recorded live at the Church of the Holy Trinity in Toronto. (Recorded on digital audio tape using only a Calrec Ambisonic mic). That recording was from the late 80's. Peter Moore gets the credit for mastering and editing. I have that (and a couple other albums by them).

Another good "field" recording from about this same time period is Woody Herman and His Big Band called 50th Anniversary Tour. Phil Edwards gets the credit as the Recording and Remix Engineer. Excellent live recording (as far as knowing what types of mics to use, and where to place them). The guys responsible for this recording and the final mixdown did an excellent job. No technical information is given as to the mobile equipment that was used (only "PER Mobile II"). But, those guys got a good sound that day.

Alex, I'm one of those rare people who can sit there and pat my foot and really be getting into the music while at the same time appreciating the technical details of the recording itself. Listening "analytically" while being swept away by the music. That's one thing I love about the AKG K-Series. You can sit there and focus on and dissect the component parts of all the elements going on, or you can sit there and just be enveloped by the overall sound as a whole.

If the T90's don't respond to "break-in" (and I don't think they will), I'm thinking I probably should've gone with the Sennheiser HD600. (To give me that foreward mid-range, which is where most of the music "sits" in the frequency range that I listen to). The only thing that has prevented me from getting these h/p's so far is the reported "Sennheiser Veil", which they say is present on the HD600 (just to a lesser extent than the HD650). I don't want a "smooth" or "warm"-sounding h/p. I want to hear the instruments presented as they sound as if I were hearing them live. (Without an un-natural boost in the lows, or having the highs rolled-off).

I'm beginning to think that no matter what h/p you end up with, there are going to be compromises that have to be made. (Just pick the areas that you're willing to compromise on).

I appreciate your comments as far as "if the data isn't there in the source" to begin with...(And here I was, hoping that the sound of that CD could've been improved by possibly changing the DAC at the playback stage, (or by streaming or downloading a hi(gher)-rez version of it).

It's interesting how some people these days can get a good sounding recording (at home, with portable equipment) whereas a musician with major label backing goes into a professional studio and the results may not sound as good as something put out by an independent artist who's self-funded. You never know.

Alex, I appreciate your offer to allow me to audition the O2 amp, but, honestly, I believe that the amplification part of my audio chain is settled. That Liz Story album that I mentioned was made listenable by (changing headphones) but also by making some subtle tweaking on the SONY amp. But, it was very kind of you to make the offer.

 

[adydula]

If you change your mind let me know I would be glad to send you an O2 and a newer DIY OPA1688 op amp creation I put together from an engineer in France...

I have come close to getting a set of HD650's but again that senn veil has kept me from going that route..

Maybe I should get a set of your AKG's!! lol

Alex

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Has anyone tried Dekoni elite velour pad with t90?

http://dekoniaudio.com/product/dekoni-audio-elite-velour-earpad-set-beyerdynamic-dt-770-880-990/

 

[Jay Smith]

Have T90 for a month now, pair it with A2 amp and Mojo, sounds amazing. Also got Audeze Deckard, it is a good amp/ dac, but Mojo is just way better in instrument separation, extention in high and low, detail resolution, the different is more apparent in classical and live concert. Mojo noise floor is extremely low compared to Deckard.

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Mojo noise floor is extremely low compared to Deckard.

Agree. I used to pair mojo with wyrd and no noticable change at all without wyrd. I love the T90 with mojo; very musical in that sense. But, I still find it fatiguing after an hour of usage. Mojo is a warm amp/dac but I guess is just not warm enough.

 

[Jay Smith]

T90 is quite sensitive in high frequency, but that is what make it fun also. Thinking about upgrade to Hugo 1, Hugo 2 or 2qute dac later.....

 

[Jay Smith]

Today I used Mojo only to drive T90 without A2 amp to see how good or bad A2 is, Mojo can definitely drive T90 with authority, not bad, but the high freq not quite tame, some bad recording suffered, agree it is fatiguing after an hour listening. Switched to use A2 amp with Mojo as dac, not a night and day different, but everything smooth now, high freq tame, stable sound stage, layer of music and it keep me to listen more and more, love it....

 

[terry parr]

Well, after about 280 hrs on my T90's, I will admit the overall sound is a bit better. Being able to hear and appreciate cymbal work by a jazz drummer (for example on the album eight little feet by the Randy Porter Trio) is easier now than it was before when listening to this same album when these T90's were brand new. (The difference between then and now is not stark. But, it's noticeable). And, I've noticed that the soundstage has increased depth from front-to-back. (Again, just enough to make me notice a difference). The soundstage from left-to-right hasn't changed enough to be noticeable. So, overall, there has been a bit of a change as these headphones have gotten some more time on them. The bass response seems to be just a bit less, in impact, but not to the point where I feel I'm being cheated compared to how they sounded brand new.

Some days, I've let the h/p's play while away at work, tuned to a classical station, usually (but sometimes to a popular hits station with music that has thumping bass and synthesized, electronic sounds). And, you know I was thinking when I was listening to this station that these headphones are perfect for this genre!

I'd say that if someone doesn't like the sound of these headphones straight out of the box, they won't like them with 280 hours on them. BUT, there are some noticeable changes for the better. (And, I've tried very hard to constantly be aware of the fact that headphone "break-in" can simply be our ears / brain adjusting to and just getting "used to" the sound of a new h/p over time). But, the (admittedly small) changes that I've noticed in these phones has been real. Just enough to "move the needle", so to speak.

On the whole, I do enjoy listening to the T90's, but I still have to put them squarely in the category of a "fun" headphone with a slightly recessed midrange that's noticeable with acoustic instruments and vocals. Even with this slight improvement over time, you still find yourself wanting just a bit more refinement and delineation in the midrange. (But, that's not how the T90's were intended to sound).

If someone who was new to headphones were to ask me flat-out: "Do the T90's change their sound over time?" The answer would be, "No. Not really." But, to more experienced h/p users, the answer is, "they do break-in a bit after about 300 hours, but not enough to make them sound like a different headphone."

Final verdict from me at this point: They excel with electronic music. And, they're "OK" with acoustic music. If I hadn't been spinning the dial one morning before planning on leaving the h/p's to continuously play for the day (and looking for a station with good reception) I wouldn't have realized just how sorry a lot of modern popular music is, and just how well the T90 does at presenting it. I just stood there, struck with the idea of just what an excellent hand-in-glove pairing it was. Perfect. I remember thinking, "this music sucks. But the headphones sound good!"

Probably should have gone with the HD700. (I was thinking I should've gone with the HD600, but I'd probably find its' sound presentation a bit too "hazy" and "polite"-sounding. The T90 is as "warm"-sounding as I want.

The T90's are still "keepers", however. For the time being.

 

[MrMan]

I gave my T90's away and bought a pair of HD700's for $290

 

[terry parr]

I gave my T90's away and bought a pair of HD700's for $290

Just now? And based on what I said in my previous post? I didn't realize my opinions could be so influential. (That, and you need to stop acting so impulsively).
Sorry. Couldn't resist that one.

 

[MrMan]

Just now? And based on what I said in my previous post? I didn't realize my opinions could be so influential. (That, and you need to stop acting so impulsively).
Sorry. Couldn't resist that one.

I gave the T90's away because the driver kept popping out. I think they got damaged when I was traveling. I gave them to Peterek because hes done a bunch of good work for me. I've always wanted to give the HD700's a try. Last friday I said if i can find a pair of HD700's for under 300 I'll pull the trigger. The FIRST!!! link was a pair of hd700 for $290. In my mind it was meant to be. I should have them today and see how they go. The T90's are a solid headphone but the driver kept popping out and the cable started to turn green.

Green cable. Maybe the cable was upset and starting to turn into the hulk ?

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Green cable. Maybe the cable was upset and starting to turn into the hulk ?

Interesting

 

[terry parr]

I gave the T90's away because the driver kept popping out. I think they got damaged when I was traveling. I gave them to Peterek because hes done a bunch of good work for me. I've always wanted to give the HD700's a try. Last friday I said if i can find a pair of HD700's for under 300 I'll pull the trigger. The FIRST!!! link was a pair of hd700 for $290. In my mind it was meant to be. I should have them today and see how they go. The T90's are a solid headphone but the driver kept popping out and the cable started to turn green.

Green cable. Maybe the cable was upset and starting to turn into the hulk ?

Ha! (I was just kidding earlier, of course). Yeah, I think that on the whole the T90 is a solid h/p. (If I had my druthers, I'd tweak it just a bit, as I think it had the potential to be a bit more refined sounding. But, beyer introduced the T1 as an answer to that).

Look, I'd be interested in your impressions of the 700's after they get in and you've had some time with them. Doesn't have to be a formal review. You can just point out what the major differences are, to you, that immediately stand out between the T90 and the HD700. Since you're so familiar with the sound sig of the T90, then when you start listening to the 700's, there'll have to be some differences that strike you from the very start, and I'd like to know what those are. Over on the HD700 appreciation thread, some have mentioned a recessed midrange (where certain instruments and vocals seem to sound "too far back"). Then another person chimed-in and said, "well, the mids aren't that recessed." So, I don't know. I do know the mids on the T90's are. (To me. Have to get that in. In my opinion the mids are recessed).

I'd just be interested in your honest take on the differences between the two phones.