Sep 8, 2017 at 6:03 PM Post #4,186 of 4,488
This is a sure fire way to completely change the sound. TH900 Pads, Detachable custom copper cable by peterek.

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How's the th900 pad? I am thinking of changing the pad but not sure if I would go for the stock pad. IMO the stock pad is already good. I had th900 in the past but I was so silly not experimenting the pad with my T90.


Just got the headphones in. Fast shipping by USPS. The guys that I ordered them from wasted no time getting them into a box and on a truck! Thanks, guys. ("Music To My Ear", out of Pittsburgh, Pa. They shipped it Priority Mail)

First of all, the h/p's arrived in perfect condition. No scuffs or marks. Very good. This is a very attractive headphone. But lighter than I thought they'd be. And, a bit smaller, too. But, not a problem. And they fit just a bit looser on my head than even the K702's do. But, not a problem there, either.

Initial listening (straight out of the box):

She & Him "Oh no, not my baby" Bass guitar (and perhaps other low frequencies) sounds a bit diffuse and not as well-defined as I would like it to be. I AM hearing the bass drum hits on this tune coming through clearly (which is nice) on the T90, compared to the 702, which leads me to think that the T90 will extend lower. I'm not hearing any "piercing highs" that some have complained about elsewhere on other threads (and on other sites) in regards to this headphone. I've had to turn down (slightly) the volume on the T90, as the 702's obviously require a bit more current. Tone controls have remained set, in order to get a close comparison between this h/p and the 702. On second listen to this same tune I'm still hearing the "diffuse-ness" on the bass and rhythm guitar here, but (and this is not a criticism) a bit of natural-sounding grain in Zooey Deschanel's voice, and the brass instruments on this tune. I'm not really detecting any further high-end extension than what the 702 offers.

Donald Fagan "Security Joan" the tic, tic, tics on the high-hat seem ("plinky" and a bit un-natural-sounding), but the cymbal crash accents sounded natural. I noticed a couple of instances where the organ was layered to make a smooth transition from one bar of the tune to another. Was able to hear more clearly a distinct male backup vocalist when a small group of them were harmonizing that I haven't heard before. You get a greater appreciation of the bass player sliding his fingers on the neck going from note to note (I'm talking about how one note decays and the other note starts. Not the actual sounds of a finger on a fret board). Fagan's voice (and the background vocals) seem a bit recessed. The upper frequencies aren't quite as foreward as they are in the 702. The T90 doesn't seem to blur the bass, here. (Which is what I was listening for, as this album is known for a rich bass presentation).

Dave Frishberg "A Little Taste" Again, the vocals seem a bit recessed and not quite as foreward as I'd like them. Acoustic bass has a bit of resonance in the cups (as if you were listening to a closed headphone), otherwise the tone of the bass sounds good. The bass riff at the very end of the tune comes through tonally on this h/p very good (and was really noticeable for the first time with this headphone).

Bill Charlap Trio "Lucky to be Me" (This tune on this particular recording is known to be a bit "problematic", as far as making the piano transients (those initial hits) sound "hot" and slightly distorted. The T90's "smooth-over" these transients moreso than the 702. The bass obviously digs deeper than the 702, but overall, my listening impressions is that in the upper frequencies, the T90 is a more "polite" sounding headphone than the 702. But, I'm enjoying the better bass presentation.

Kronos Quartet "Nardis" There's more "information" down low on the T90's to enjoy, both melodically and harmonically. But, I keep coming back to the T90's more polite-sounding nature up top. The T90's don't have the "bite" in the treble that the K702 has. (Which can sometimes be a good thing), but you have to wonder if the T90 isn't "glossing-over" (as it sounds to me) certain higher frequencies and notes. I think it is. But, that doesn't have to be a negative thing. This headphone is a slightly different listen than the 702 is.

Boz Scaggs "Lowdown" Bass seems a bit distorted, not as clearly defined as on the 702, although the bass hits harder and deeper. Not as much foreward impact with the T90 in the highs, though. And those fast, (what sounds like) eight-to-the-bar high-hat hits by drummer Jeff Porcaro aren't quite as noticeable on the T90. But, no upper-frequency distortion has been heard on the T90. It plays "clean" through the mids and up top.

Sophie Barker "Home" I've been meaning to call Sophie and ask her if she meant for the guitar to have a bit of distortion in the introduction of this tune. Seriously, you can tell these headphones "dig deeper" than the 702's, but they do lack a bit of that "in your face" foreward-ness. The slight reduction in soundstage is heard (so far) as a plus. Piano comes through with a pleasing tone.

speaking of soundstage, one more initial "test track": (Which we'll hear as the credits roll for this review).

The Gene Harris All Star Big Band "Night Mist Blues" Gene Harris seemed to favor those brighter-sounding Baldwin pianos. With the T90's, you don't get the upper-edge of the note and chords, but more of the body of it. More of the lower-note body of the bass guitar comes out here, too. But with this h/p favoring to convey more of this "lower-middle" section, it can make it sound like certain instruments are at a lower tuning. In this case, it sounds as if Jeff Hamilton is playing a slightly larger snare drum.



TL; DR: Bottom line to all this, is that I'm enjoying the difference to my listening that this h/p is offering. They're keepers. I'm just wondering if the low-end will tighten-up (just a wee bit) and whether the midrange will open up (just a hair).

Nice review! I love my T90 and a keeper for me too. IMO the treble is hot at times but with a great amp, the combo is just amazing :beyersmile:
 
Sep 8, 2017 at 8:55 PM Post #4,187 of 4,488
The pads are super comfortable, very cool compared to other non-velour. It adds a nice soundstage, a nice bass but kind of muffles the sound a little. The pads are stupid expensive $80+.
 
Sep 8, 2017 at 11:25 PM Post #4,188 of 4,488
The pads are super comfortable, very cool compared to other non-velour. It adds a nice soundstage, a nice bass but kind of muffles the sound a little. The pads are stupid expensive $80+.

does the muffle sound affect the mids? True. The pads are so expensive. I saw someone send a link for a third party pad that similar to th900 stock pad on the th900 thread. It was on ebay; but, they were sold out last time.
 
Sep 9, 2017 at 8:28 AM Post #4,189 of 4,488
I don't honestly remember. I'm so used to the th900 pads now that its hard to remember how they used to sound. I do remember the t90 being a somewhat accurate headphone. With the th900 they turned into a really fun headphone. It also doesn't help that I'm using an M8 for an amp/dac. It really allows you to shape the sound however you want.

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Sep 9, 2017 at 8:40 AM Post #4,190 of 4,488
Hey Terry!

Glad you got your T90's,,,,,,sounds like they are working well....

Sorry about the delay in responding...I just got out of the hospital from having my prostate removed....early cancer detected..so we elected to remove it.....so we are in the second week at home healing. I havent been able to get upstairs to my "man cave" and all my HP.s and toys. But today I am ready to play again!!

I will listen to the T90's with some of the recordings I have,,,I dont have most of the ones you have , do have the Lowdown one...

I was going to ask what amp are u using with the T90s and your comparison, but if your going back and forth with the two sets of cans then your comparison is a good one to see how the two compare.

I have one amp that has the ability to attach two headphones at the same time to easily swap out or go back and forth. I have set the volume levels before hand and marked the spot for each can to pay at the same SPL.

I think these will indeed change slightly over 20-30 hours of play. Hopefully they will get better.for you,

One thing I notice immediately after many months with the T1's when I go back to the T90's is I say "dang these are so much more clearer than the T1's!"......but the overall musical presentation is better IMO with the T1's...but the way they play is very different, more tight and controlled on the low end for sure.

That said, my T90s are still some of the best all around hp's and still keepers!

Alex
 
Sep 9, 2017 at 1:02 PM Post #4,191 of 4,488
I don't honestly remember. I'm so used to the th900 pads now that its hard to remember how they used to sound. I do remember the t90 being a somewhat accurate headphone. With the th900 they turned into a really fun headphone. It also doesn't help that I'm using an M8 for an amp/dac. It really allows you to shape the sound however you want.

hifi-m8-back-panel-controls-800.jpg

That is an interesting DAC/Amp. I really love the accuracy in T90 and one of the main reason why it's a keeper for me.
 
Sep 9, 2017 at 2:25 PM Post #4,192 of 4,488
That is an interesting DAC/Amp. I really love the accuracy in T90 and one of the main reason why it's a keeper for me.

I can shape the sound so it sounds like the stock t90's with slightly more sound stage.

The M8 in my mind is the absolute best amp/dac out there if you want utility. Can power 32-600 ohm, works with android, apple and pc, has 2 switches one for bass and one for treble and you can plug in at the SAME time xlr, 1/4 and 3.5 plugs.

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Sep 9, 2017 at 7:58 PM Post #4,193 of 4,488
Hey Terry!

Glad you got your T90's,,,,,,sounds like they are working well....

Sorry about the delay in responding...I just got out of the hospital from having my prostate removed....early cancer detected..so we elected to remove it.....so we are in the second week at home healing. I havent been able to get upstairs to my "man cave" and all my HP.s and toys. But today I am ready to play again!!

I will listen to the T90's with some of the recordings I have,,,I dont have most of the ones you have , do have the Lowdown one...

I was going to ask what amp are u using with the T90s and your comparison, but if your going back and forth with the two sets of cans then your comparison is a good one to see how the two compare.

I have one amp that has the ability to attach two headphones at the same time to easily swap out or go back and forth. I have set the volume levels before hand and marked the spot for each can to pay at the same SPL.

I think these will indeed change slightly over 20-30 hours of play. Hopefully they will get better.for you,

One thing I notice immediately after many months with the T1's when I go back to the T90's is I say "dang these are so much more clearer than the T1's!"......but the overall musical presentation is better IMO with the T1's...but the way they play is very different, more tight and controlled on the low end for sure.

That said, my T90s are still some of the best all around hp's and still keepers!

Alex


I wanted to make sure I sent you a message today and apologize for not getting back sooner. The T90's arrived Thursday afternoon, and since then, I've either been listening or working. A couple of twelve hour days for Fri and Today. But, I can't complain too much. It's a good place to work, and the people are easy to work with. It's not perfect, but what work situation is?

Glad your recovery is to the point where you feel like "playing with your toys", again. A lot of times we take our health for granted, but when something happens that scares us, we realize how fortunate we've had it. Plus, modern medicine is the reason a lot of people are alive (those who have had stents put in, or are on high blood pressure medicine. Those people wouldn't have been alive 50 years ago with those conditions left untreated). Our bodies and how they function (and how we can prevent things from going wrong, if we can) is something you find yourself thinking about more and more as you get older. I've started using ear plugs when I'm using the hedge trimmers, or if I'll be subjecting my ears to a fairly high level of noise. I didn't use to do that. Didn't think about it. I do, now.

By the way, I switched-out the amps that I'm using to power the T90's. My initial impressions were through a Technics SA-500 (which doesn't have quite the clarity and punch that the SONY STR-6055 has). Comparing the headphones back and forth, it's obvious that the T90 is the superior headphone. However, the 702's WILL produce certain...how can I put this...certain artifacts, or slivers of sound (certain sound elements) in certain recordings and at certain frequencies that the T90 doesn't quite reproduce as well, or as cleanly. And, I'm not well-versed enough to tell you exactly where the T90 seems to have a slight drop-off, where the 702 seems to have a peak at that same frequency range. To put it generally, it's in the upper-mids section. But, it sounds like it's a fairly narrow band (and only something that I've noticed occasionally).

It's like you said above, in comparing the T1's with the T90's, where the overall musical presentation of the T1 has the T90 beat, but the T90 wins as far as clarity goes.

I don't think there's any such thing as a headphone that brings everything we want (and in the exact, right proportions) to the table. But, I've got to say that I'm really enjoying this new headphone. While I was at work today, I was looking foreward to getting back home and spending more time with it tonight.

Have a nice evening, Alex. And, congratulations on, (not what you had to go through), but on the early detection (and, therefore early treatment!)
 
Sep 9, 2017 at 8:18 PM Post #4,194 of 4,488
I can shape the sound so it sounds like the stock t90's with slightly more sound stage.

The M8 in my mind is the absolute best amp/dac out there if you want utility. Can power 32-600 ohm, works with android, apple and pc, has 2 switches one for bass and one for treble and you can plug in at the SAME time xlr, 1/4 and 3.5 plugs.

Screen_Shot_2015-04-30_at_11.28.07_AM_large.png

How's the balanced out compare to SE?
 
Sep 10, 2017 at 11:30 AM Post #4,195 of 4,488
Hey Terry...

Sony STR 6055!! Wow, after my fist AVR an Allied Radio 35 watt, I got my "dream" AVR which was a Sony STR 6065!!!
Awesome reveiver!! 60watts RMS/ch!!

Brings back memories for sure.

Warming up my Schitt Vahalla 2 and will listen to the T90s once again!
Alex
 
Sep 10, 2017 at 3:55 PM Post #4,196 of 4,488
You know, I chose the STR-6055, because of it's reported superior headphone output (even among some other "vintage" receivers). Of course I would never even consider trying to power a headphone such as the T90 with any modern receiver. (And especially not an A/V receiver, when video circuitry was introduced). Some of these older receivers were "voiced" by the engineers at the time, meaning that the thinking that went into the component parts that were used was part of the design goal, as they knew how different combinations of component parts within the amplifier could have a positive effect (or a negative one) on how the quality of the music would be heard. This was a consideration back then among some of these 70's-era Japanese amplifiers and receivers.

And since these receivers were strictly two-channel, then how and in what way the receiver amplified and influenced the sound of the music was foremost in their thinking when the higher-quality ones from this time were being designed and built. (Which is why the headphone output of the better receivers from this era was an integral part of the design, too, and not a last-minute afterthought). Of course, I'm not saying that every example from this time period was good. Far from it. But, there really were some stand-out examples from back then.


Hopefully, with the increased popularity of headphone listening these days, we might begin to see a resurgence in this way of thinking among people who design headphone amplifiers, where they consider more than just "is the amp powerful enough?" Well, the amp may be "powerful enough". The amp may make the headphones loud enough. But, what does the amp sound like? And, what musical characteristics as far as tone and timbre is the amp bringing to the table?
 
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Sep 10, 2017 at 7:25 PM Post #4,197 of 4,488
I spent some time today listening to the T90's and the T1's.....and they are both really fine instruments...using my Schitt Vahalla 2 with the BIMBY multibit dac.

The conclusions are the same as many times I have done this before. the T90's are accurate, open, transparent, clinical, revealing....while the T1's are indeed
more musical, lush, warm, less transparent, more closed in soundstage....the T90's in my setup, Lowdown sounds very open and transparent...holographic type of
soundstage to me.

The bass on the T1's definitely pass up the T90's...its more controlled and more body or heft...I have spent more time with the T1's over the past months just because each time I listen to the T90s' my brain tells me I am missing something in the overall presentation.

Some music sounds better to me on one versus the other.

That said. I like them both very much!

On the receiver end I went thru several older AVR's looking for that good HP amp experience...and built God only knows how many DIY circuits to play with power, damping factors, impedance matching etc....ad nauseum. Always striving for an amp that did not add or take away anything...so far I have several that to me are in that area and they all sound pretty much the same, that is they dont sound!! lol...

So to me its back to listening to the music and I stopped chasing electronic nirvana,,,,I think I have that or close to it...

One piece of gear that stands out in the same manner that the AVR's of old do is my Frank VanAlstine preamp...its headphone out is superb absoultely a joy to listen to and it has tone controls!!

Enjoy the music!!
Alex
 
Sep 10, 2017 at 7:41 PM Post #4,198 of 4,488
I spent some time today listening to the T90's and the T1's.....and they are both really fine instruments...using my Schitt Vahalla 2 with the BIMBY multibit dac.

The conclusions are the same as many times I have done this before. the T90's are accurate, open, transparent, clinical, revealing....while the T1's are indeed
more musical, lush, warm, less transparent, more closed in soundstage....the T90's in my setup, Lowdown sounds very open and transparent...holographic type of
soundstage to me.

The bass on the T1's definitely pass up the T90's...its more controlled and more body or heft...I have spent more time with the T1's over the past months just because each time I listen to the T90s' my brain tells me I am missing something in the overall presentation.
Is that the original T1, or the v2 version?
 
Sep 10, 2017 at 9:02 PM Post #4,200 of 4,488
For my money, I think the T90 is one fine headphone. I'm digging it! (Of course, I'm coming from the "AKG K-Series of clarity, transparency, revealing and with a somewhat clinical" etc. school of sound).

I don't want "lush" and "warm." (I don't even want "lusher" and "warmer" than what the T90 currently is). I think it's an excellent headphone. I did notice last night though, when I changed-out amps (after I started using the SONY), that I had to dial-back the treble a bit. But, that's okay. I'd rather have the high-end extension available and then have to tone it down a bit, rather than having a headphone that didn't extend the high frequencies, but would want them.

But, as far as the T90 goes, I am appreciating how it seems to have more body and gives you a fuller sound (while still maintaining most of the above-mentioned attributes of the K-Series). According to Alex, the T1 may excel in certain areas, compared to the T90, but I'm not sure if I would want an overall warmer-sounding signature in order to get the gains, compared to the T90.

I was just listening to the album "Two Against Nature" by Steely Dan tonight. On some of those tunes, there is a LOT going on. Steely Dan and Donald Fagan is known for this "layering" that rewards careful listening. But, adding all of these elements never seems to be too much. Everything seems to "fit." Hearing these details and listening in this way is how I prefer to listen. And, I want a headphone that will allow me to listen in this way.
 
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