Beyerdynamic T90 Discussion and Support Thread

[fritobugger]

How does Amiron compare to T90? I am currently using a 250 Ohm DT880 with a HRT Music Streamer II and Magni 2. I ordered a Modi Multibit and Valhalla 2 this week and was planning to get an Amiron. However, I stumbled upon this thread and reading the heaps of positive impressions regarding soundstage, imaging and resolution I am kind of convinced T90 might do the trick considering that it is also much cheaper. I mainly listen to classical music, jazz and prog rock. Did you also have a chance to listen to HD800? Is it worth the extra cost?

I had the T90 and enjoyed them a great deal. I have the HD800 now. I consider the T90 a budget HD800. It has that great Beyerdynamic comfort. It has good bass for an open can without neglecting the mids. The highs are bright but fine for me.

I enjoyed it quite a lot for the musical genres you listed.

 

[MrMan]

In my early days I was a giant fan of the Denon 2000's. They were a very playful headphone that lacked most of the mid. Bass and voices shined, and that was the way I loved it. I re found that sound again with T90 + Th900 pads. The soundstage is huge, the bass is hard hitting and the voices shine. Its so far from accurate but I just love it for what I need.

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Just got my T90 after a month for recable with ZynSonix and it sounds amazing!

 

[zazex]

Sometimes they just seem to sizzle at the top, to the extent that I'm ready to sell them.

At other times, even though they're "bright", it's not overly intense.
And, at those times,I like the way they sound.

Bass, mids, soundstage, comfort - they're all reasonably good IMO.

I've had them about 3 weeks, and I'm leaning to these conclusions so far: they tend towards brightness,
and it's more apparent on certain recordings and with certain electronics. Sure, you can hear those
differences with almost any good set of headphones, but for some reason - some reason not yet
clear to me - the high end of the T90's is exceptionally revealing - and again, tending towards
brightness.

I think they're quite good, but would not want them to be my only headphones.

 

[adydula]

Most of the time the high end brightness is due to the type and quality of music being listened to.
If you listen close to a band the instruments can be brutally sounding...but its the way they are in
real life...

Recordings, mic'ing, mastering muck with this so much and when you have a revealing instrument like the
T90's its in your face...Listen to well recorded stuff well mastered its pretty good.

That said many will not like this sound and move on. If you want a set of headphones that can be used for
critical listening the T90s will work and with good source material its a very good accurate IMO sound to me.

Good Luck
Alex

 

[terry parr]

Most of the time the high end brightness is due to the type and quality of music being listened to.
If you listen close to a band the instruments can be brutally sounding...but its the way they are in
real life...

Recordings, mic'ing, mastering muck with this so much and when you have a revealing instrument like the
T90's its in your face...Listen to well recorded stuff well mastered its pretty good.

That said many will not like this sound and move on. If you want a set of headphones that can be used for
critical listening the T90s will work and with good source material its a very good accurate IMO sound to me.

Good Luck
Alex

Most of the time the high end brightness is due to the type and quality of music being listened to.
If you listen close to a band the instruments can be brutally sounding...but its the way they are in
real life...

Recordings, mic'ing, mastering muck with this so much and when you have a revealing instrument like the
T90's its in your face...Listen to well recorded stuff well mastered its pretty good.

That said many will not like this sound and move on. If you want a set of headphones that can be used for
critical listening the T90s will work and with good source material its a very good accurate IMO sound to me.

Good Luck
Alex

 

[terry parr]

How you doing, Alex? Glad to see you still posting, here.

I made a couple of the same points a few months ago in an LCD-3 thread that you just made. (And how the LCD-3, to me, left a lot to be desired as far as how that headphone reproduced actual musical instruments in actual space). Just sold them to a happy new owner. Hope that he'll enjoy them for a long time to come, if that's what he wants. We all have our preferences, as I never did like that headphone's sound signature, (as I'm coming from the "AKG 7-series school" of open, airy, detailed, well-extended highs, tight bass, clarity, articulation, and soundstage). I like a "clean"-sounding headphone with a fairly prominent midrange.

Although I'd like more tactile bass impact than the 702 gives, I want well-integrated bass. Not bass that overwhelms, at the expense of the mids and highs. I just described an LCD-3 for you.

I enjoyed the superior low-frequency reproduction of that headphone. But to me, that h/p is a "one-trick pony." Great bass. But it's other faults and flaws (which are glaring to someone who appreciates the sound of acoustic instruments and micro details) made me give up on it.

The consensus seems to be that the T90 improves over the un-naturally wide soundstage of the 702, by rendering instrument placement a bit better. I just don't want to lose the experience of the music seeming to come from the room, rather than from inside the headphone.

I'm showing up (very) late to the T90 party, as I see this thread beginning to wind-down. But, one advantage of being this late, (and now that a newer version of the T90 has been released, along with the dt1990) is that I was able to snag a new pair of T90's off of ebay last night for less than 400.00

After a marathon reading session on the beyerdynamic dt1990, (and then reading quite a few pages here, on the T90), I decided on the T90, as some people reported that the 1990 was a bit darker-sounding than the T1.2 (and this T1 second generation was tuned to sound warmer than the first version of the T1). I have tone controls on my 1970's-era receivers, so if the treble gets a bit too hot, I can dial it back in. But with a headphone that doesn't have this upper frequency extension, there's nothing you can do via tone controls. (i'm looking at you, LCD-3). At the same time, if you have a headphone that doesn't have quite enough visceral low-end impact and/or extension, then having tone controls won't fix this, either. (isn't that right, 702?)

I'm hoping the T90 will give me a bit more bass extension and impact than the 702 delivers, while at the same time still preserving at least a similar presentation of the mids and highs that the 702 offers. We'll see.

And, even though what I'm about to say shouldn't be the deciding factor in choosing one h/p over another, the design and look of the T90 (and the T1) is much more attractive to me than the 1990. (But I seem to be in the minority with this opinion, too!)

Let me be a bit sarcastic (but truthful) for a moment. The fact that the opinions on the T90's seem to be so polarizing here on this site actually encouraged me, and led me to think that I might be onto something. The fact that the 1990 is so universally praised here, made me hesitate, quite honestly. Given my past experience reading reviews here, and considering my preferences, I remember how dividing the AKG 7-series was, (but how unanimous the praise was for the LCD-3).

 

[adydula]

Hi Terry,

Nice to converse with you once again.

Somewhere buried in this thread I think is my stating I sold my LCD2's pretty much for the same reasons.....we all have different tastes in music an how its reproduced for sure..

But like you indicate if the tranducer can not reproduce the frequencies desired in the right tonal balance tone control twiddling no matter how hard you try will always IMO be a compromise.

I was on the fence buying the T1's for months and just could not justify spending twice+ more on them for how much "more/better" overall improvement in the musical presentation with the stuff I like to listen to.

Finally after updating my dacs and amps to some Schitt stuff, (multibit Bifrost Bimby and a Vahalla 2) I have found a really great sounding setup....moderately priced overall.

I still have 9 amps, 4 dacs, two receivers, and a host of poratable diy head amps....but most of the time they all sit there turned off and the T1/Schitt stuff is the heat here.

The T90's for a few years have been absolutely wonderful to me...and even though they maybe at the end of their life cycle and the cost drops they still will play very, very well...

Enjoy!
Alex

 

[terry parr]

I'm looking forward to getting them. The proof will be in the listening. I'm hoping for the best (terry says, while biting his lip). Seriously, I just couldn't justify the cost of the T1. I had auditioned that phone a few years ago (along with an HE-500, and an HD-800 here at home for a week, and I remember thinking that the T1's sound signature was voiced similar to the K701. But the T1 was a better headphone. (Better-sounding, better-looking, and constructed better). (But, it's price-to-performance ratio was out of whack). Remember, now, this is back when the T1 was new on the market and was selling for around 1,500.00

The problem you run into now, is (if you want a first-generation T1), according to the research I've done, you'll need to look for one with a serial number below 21,000 (this is reportedly before the unannounced tweaking that beyer started doing on these phones). But, who really knows? Then I've heard of variations in the sound signature from unit to unit...The more I read on it in an effort to get conclusive answers, the more conflicted my decision-making was getting. Doing a certain amount of research on equipment that you're considering can be fun (as it's been for me the last couple of days). But, you don't want to feel as if you need to have to sleuth something out with the skills needed of an underworld spy, or a forensics expert. Just too many unknowns with the T1, now. I was seriously considering it, too.

Sounds like you lucked-out with your pair. I'm sure you're enjoying them. Sounds to me like you've got a satisfying-system and that you're "standing pat", for a while. I don't get the itch for "a new toy" very often, but I am hoping for a bit of an improvement on the headphone front. (And, yes. Looking foreward to getting "the new toy" in here). I'll just wait to hear what they sound like, first. That'll determine whether I fall in love with them, or not.

Appreciate the reassuring words concerning the T90's, Alex. (Here's hoping that they'll sound (at least close to) how I'm hoping they'll sound.

 

[MrMan]

This is a sure fire way to completely change the sound. TH900 Pads, Detachable custom copper cable by peterek.

 

[Errymoose]

For what it's worth re: above.

I currently have Brainwavz Velours on my T1 and Pleathers on my T70 and love them. The velours don't compress nearly as much as the stock beyer pads thus stay comfortable longer and cost far less. The pleathers I replaced just cause the ones on the T70 didn't seal well, and also a vast improvement.

 

[adydula]

After spending big bucks on the LCD's....I found it hard to justify the cost for sure....

I watched the price roll down and down and down last year a got the pair I have for $800+. So I had to sell some stuff..being retired and this is the way I justify my hi-fi
expenditures...having lots of stuff from past pre-retirement timeframe, I was able to just keep selling and buying new stuff at much less "pain" level! LOL!!

Look forward to your honest candid T90 experience.

Alex

 

[terry parr]

Well, I'm certainly not in this hobby to make money, Alex! That's for sure. (I buy high and sell low! ) Yes, it hurt having to sell an expensive pair of headphones for what amounted to a bargain price. But, with the LCD 3's just sitting here not being used, (much less not being enjoyed), I thought I'd better get what I could for them now (thinking that the longer I hold onto them, the harder they'll be to sell). I should've let them go long before now, since after trying to like them, and wanting to like them (and after spending that kind of money on headphones, you TRY to like them! Ha!) But, after giving up on them, no matter how much I tried to like them, I'm trying to lessen the damage and turn a negative into a positive, here. At least with the money that I got from the sell of the 3's, I'll be able to buy a pair of T90's and still have money left over. It was just an expensive experiment for me to find out what the LCD 3's sounded like. The fact that so many people seem to like those headphones made them easier to sell, but the reason for that will always remain a mystery to me. I still don't get it. Listening to those things sounded like someone had thrown a blanket over your speakers and you were trying to hear the music through some (fairly thick) material that had been draped over both the midrange and the tweeters. Or, so it seemed to me. Oh, well. To each, their own.

With the T90's not being as universally popular, they would be tougher to re-sell. I was thinking about that even before I hit the "buy now" button. But, with the T90's priced as they are now, we're not talking about uber-expensive headphones, either. But anyway, I don't think I'll have that to worry about.

Nothing wrong with changing-out different components and doing some buying and selling from time to time just to experiment and to get an improved sound (or, to just get a different sound). That's one of the things that makes this hobby fun.

(Like the couple of posts just above this one. Tweaking the sound more to your liking, or just wanting a slightly- different or slightly-improved sound by changing-out pads and/or maybe doing a re-cable).

My mistake was, I "went big" on an expensive h/p that I didn't even get to enjoy for the time that I had it. That's the thing with buying this particular planar h/p. It pretty much "is what it is." If you don't like what it sounds like from the beginning, then changing-out pads or switching-out the cable probably won't change your mind about them. I didn't bother with doing either with the LCD-3. I knew that making either change wouldn't make that h/p sound dramatically different or change the inherent sound qualities of it.

I've got high hopes for the tesla T90. I DO wish that the T90 had been designed with a detachable cable, though. (And, I've always liked the idea of the "Y" cable, where you have separate cables leading from both earcups and having each transducer wired directly to the h/p cable). But, this won't be an issue if I like how this headphone sounds.

In reading this thread, I'm thinking that the T90 will pretty much be my cup of tea. I'm hoping so, anyway.

 

[adydula]

We have a lot in common, I try to find the best stuff,latest technology, but within certain cost constraints...like whats the best "xxx" for under $500 etc....Most headphones a few years back IMO did not do a real great job in reproducing the low end of the music scale....so the LCD's when they were being birthed intrigued me to no end but the only way to hear this new revolutionary HP was to have to buy one....and I did and like your experience was not that thrilled with what I was hearing when I compared it with much lesser costly HP's.....they were great in some areas but not for the price to me.

So having the T90's and being the gold standard, I started buying and listening where I could and kept selling stuff until the T1's arrived....then it was the DIY for two+ years of building really great headamps with a few engineers that are as good as it gets no matter what the price....I have 4-5 of these amps..all indinstinguihable from each other....did this on the solid state side and tube side..then it was dac searching , testing and comparing.....and finally after 5-6 yrs of mucking around I am really very happy with what "little" and how good the stuff I have is.

I like you did try to like the LCD's and others but the truth cuts thru like a knife....the neat thing is most everytime I turn on and listen now its pretty almost "hey!!! this is still really, really good"...like getting something new over again vs trying to like something because some Hi-Fi site says its the latest and greatest!!

Soemtimes the simple things like the pad changing stuff can amount to more of a positve change that spending a $1000 on a set of new hp's!

Maybe I will get out in my garage and build a set of Dynaco A25's!!

Alex
lol

 

[terry parr]

Just got the headphones in. Fast shipping by USPS. The guys that I ordered them from wasted no time getting them into a box and on a truck! Thanks, guys. ("Music To My Ear", out of Pittsburgh, Pa. They shipped it Priority Mail)

First of all, the h/p's arrived in perfect condition. No scuffs or marks. Very good. This is a very attractive headphone. But lighter than I thought they'd be. And, a bit smaller, too. But, not a problem. And they fit just a bit looser on my head than even the K702's do. But, not a problem there, either.

Initial listening (straight out of the box):

She & Him "Oh no, not my baby" Bass guitar (and perhaps other low frequencies) sounds a bit diffuse and not as well-defined as I would like it to be. I AM hearing the bass drum hits on this tune coming through clearly (which is nice) on the T90, compared to the 702, which leads me to think that the T90 will extend lower. I'm not hearing any "piercing highs" that some have complained about elsewhere on other threads (and on other sites) in regards to this headphone. I've had to turn down (slightly) the volume on the T90, as the 702's obviously require a bit more current. Tone controls have remained set, in order to get a close comparison between this h/p and the 702. On second listen to this same tune I'm still hearing the "diffuse-ness" on the bass and rhythm guitar here, but (and this is not a criticism) a bit of natural-sounding grain in Zooey Deschanel's voice, and the brass instruments on this tune. I'm not really detecting any further high-end extension than what the 702 offers.

Donald Fagan "Security Joan" the tic, tic, tics on the high-hat seem ("plinky" and a bit un-natural-sounding), but the cymbal crash accents sounded natural. I noticed a couple of instances where the organ was layered to make a smooth transition from one bar of the tune to another. Was able to hear more clearly a distinct male backup vocalist when a small group of them were harmonizing that I haven't heard before. You get a greater appreciation of the bass player sliding his fingers on the neck going from note to note (I'm talking about how one note decays and the other note starts. Not the actual sounds of a finger on a fret board). Fagan's voice (and the background vocals) seem a bit recessed. The upper frequencies aren't quite as foreward as they are in the 702. The T90 doesn't seem to blur the bass, here. (Which is what I was listening for, as this album is known for a rich bass presentation).

Dave Frishberg "A Little Taste" Again, the vocals seem a bit recessed and not quite as foreward as I'd like them. Acoustic bass has a bit of resonance in the cups (as if you were listening to a closed headphone), otherwise the tone of the bass sounds good. The bass riff at the very end of the tune comes through tonally on this h/p very good (and was really noticeable for the first time with this headphone).

Bill Charlap Trio "Lucky to be Me" (This tune on this particular recording is known to be a bit "problematic", as far as making the piano transients (those initial hits) sound "hot" and slightly distorted. The T90's "smooth-over" these transients moreso than the 702. The bass obviously digs deeper than the 702, but overall, my listening impressions is that in the upper frequencies, the T90 is a more "polite" sounding headphone than the 702. But, I'm enjoying the better bass presentation.

Kronos Quartet "Nardis" There's more "information" down low on the T90's to enjoy, both melodically and harmonically. But, I keep coming back to the T90's more polite-sounding nature up top. The T90's don't have the "bite" in the treble that the K702 has. (Which can sometimes be a good thing), but you have to wonder if the T90 isn't "glossing-over" (as it sounds to me) certain higher frequencies and notes. I think it is. But, that doesn't have to be a negative thing. This headphone is a slightly different listen than the 702 is.

Boz Scaggs "Lowdown" Bass seems a bit distorted, not as clearly defined as on the 702, although the bass hits harder and deeper. Not as much foreward impact with the T90 in the highs, though. And those fast, (what sounds like) eight-to-the-bar high-hat hits by drummer Jeff Porcaro aren't quite as noticeable on the T90. But, no upper-frequency distortion has been heard on the T90. It plays "clean" through the mids and up top.

Sophie Barker "Home" I've been meaning to call Sophie and ask her if she meant for the guitar to have a bit of distortion in the introduction of this tune. Seriously, you can tell these headphones "dig deeper" than the 702's, but they do lack a bit of that "in your face" foreward-ness. The slight reduction in soundstage is heard (so far) as a plus. Piano comes through with a pleasing tone.

speaking of soundstage, one more initial "test track": (Which we'll hear as the credits roll for this review).

The Gene Harris All Star Big Band "Night Mist Blues" Gene Harris seemed to favor those brighter-sounding Baldwin pianos. With the T90's, you don't get the upper-edge of the note and chords, but more of the body of it. More of the lower-note body of the bass guitar comes out here, too. But with this h/p favoring to convey more of this "lower-middle" section, it can make it sound like certain instruments are at a lower tuning. In this case, it sounds as if Jeff Hamilton is playing a slightly larger snare drum.



TL; DR: Bottom line to all this, is that I'm enjoying the difference to my listening that this h/p is offering. They're keepers. I'm just wondering if the low-end will tighten-up (just a wee bit) and whether the midrange will open up (just a hair).