Beyerdynamic T90 Discussion and Support Thread

[adydula]

Terry....sounds like you have found a "winner"!!

Alex

 

[terry parr]

Alex, for the most part, yes. I still find that the T90 doesn't reproduce that "sliver" of the upper-mids / lower treble that the K702 does.

Some might say that "you've just gotten used to that un-natural treble spike in those 702's and you're just used to that sound." No. There are instances in a recording where a muted trumpet (for example) is heard clearly on the 702, but the T90 reproduces this sound frequency (and others like it, here and there) just faintly, to the point that you can barely hear it. And, there are other instances where small details that I'm used to hearing on familiar tracks are barely audible on the T90, compared to the 702.

These are isolated incidents, and I'm only talking about only a handful of tracks that I've noticed this on (and, if you didn't know the song contained a couple of sound elements like this, you probably wouldn't miss them).

But, there does seem to be an odd "drop-out" somewhere up there in the upper-mids with the T90.


I need to schedule both of my vintage receivers for a good service, and get both units re-adjusted and brought back to spec, probably replace the caps, look at those "drop-down" resistors that are between the headphone out and the power supply for the speakers inside the receivers. Maybe I need a different value resistor, there. I don't know.

But, I DO know some capable people who will be able to tell me.

I don't want to sound like I'm getting too neurotic about this, because I'm not looking to extract the nth degree of detail, here (or else my entire system would look completely different from what it does, from top-to-bottom). But, this issue IS nagging at me, a little.
Enough to make me want to do something about it.

(And, besides. All of us headphone listeners and two-channel audio guys are a bit neurotic, anyway). At least to some degree.

(But so are a lot of other people who are passionate about their hobby, too. So, I don't worry about that aspect of it). Anyone that might call me obsessed over music appreciation and audio equipment probably needs a hobby that they, themselves could get excited about.


I'm planning on spending some time reading some earlier posts here on this thread, and then maybe taking my issue over to the "vintage amps and receivers" thread here on head-fi, and asking them what they think. Between looking at some earlier posts here, regarding amplification issues with the T90, and going to the "vintage" thread, I should be able to add to my knowledge base and hopefully make an improvement to my system.

 

[adydula]

Hey Terry, good morning...

That's interesting, I have not experienced this but have no more AKG's here to compare. I will take a critical listen later today.

The 250 ohm impedance and the amp being used may affect the sound.

I would try another amp/dac combo and see if this issue is still there.

Having this issue with one and not the other HP using the same AVR at least keeps the source the same...whats the impedance of the 702's?
(62 ohms?).

You can try a phone output for a quick test as well....most phones will drive the higher impedances better than the lower ones.

If you knew the exact frequency you could play test tones in the area and measure SPL level....crude but...

Good luck...

Alex

 

[terry parr]

You only have to listen for about one minute here in this video Alex, to let me make my point. I posted this YouTube clip because I can show you better than I can tell you. In this clip (which isn't the easiest in the world to closely listen for differences to, I'll admit), this still gives an example of the sound frequencies that the T90 seems unable to differentiate.

I'm listening to the clip through my laptop headphones (GRADO SR-225's) plugged into an external "Sound Blaster" sound card.

The sound that a particular jazz ride cymbal makes after the stick hit is referred to as the "wash." It's that sound that sustains after the cymbal is struck. You only have to listen until about :58 seconds to hear the difference in the sound of the two cymbals when the player here makes the first switch. The high-hat "chicks" on two and four would sound different if brighter-sounding high-hat cymbals were being used. This is that area of sound where the T90 makes pretty much all cymbals and cymbal hits sound the same.




Alex, I know what you're thinking. "Geez. Sorry I asked!"

The difference in the sound qualities between these two cymbals are subtle, yes. (And made a bit more difficult to hear on this particular sound clip). But, the point is, it's in this particular sound frequency where the T90 doesn't reproduce certain sound characteristics very well, to my ears.

 

[adydula]

Hey Terry....this is very interesting to me....I never looked at this from this point of view...to able to discern the sounds ie the "wash" from different cymbols tells me your
a real musician sort of guy! :>)

I never have looked at it in this detail, but more from a overall presentation of clarity, musical presentation, soundstage, and tonality....does it make me smile and say
"gosh! this is darn good!".

I will play the clip later today with the T90' and T1's, I have a set of msr7's and DT 1350's and I think a set of ATm50's..

Alex

 

[adydula]

Hey Terry,

I spent some time today listening to the youtube cymbal comparisons and I can hear the differences with my T90's and T1's.

I can hear the differences in tonality, its more apparent with the T1's but the T90's IMO detect the differences as well.
Some are not that different while others like the 22" ones its very apparent to me.

I am 68 yrs and my ears are still working pretty well lol!!

Alex

 

[MrMan]

When you guys are mentioning what you hear and don't hear are you able to test sources/amps from different companies ? I ask this because I have 3 sources, 2 from the same company and my T90's sound very different on all of them.

 

[adydula]

That's interesting....3 sources and they all play to your T90's differently in what your hearing?
What are they?

Even though they are from the same company they can be very different depending on many other things..

Alex

 

[MrMan]

That's interesting....3 sources and they all play to your T90's differently in what your hearing?
What are they?

Even though they are from the same company they can be very different depending on many other things..

Alex

Centrance M8 - Very full and strong bass
Centrance dacport hd - Neutral
Emotiva XDA 2 - Very lean

 

[adydula]

Well all these devices are indeed different.
Dac/amp combos...

They arent really "sources" ...sources would be where your music is being sourced..ie a pc via music player software or discrete music player or a transport like a
cd or dvd player....

The question is which one is the closet to be accurate and totally neutral?

I strive for the same source into a totally flat FQ dac and follow on amp...to get as close to a straight wire with gain...
PC source -----DAC-----AMP----Cans.

With dac amp combos its all stiched together inside..and depending how this is done they can indeed be different sounding.

I would try to get to a HP meet and compare the "neutral" setup u have to a really well known neutral seperate dac to amp setup and see how
this compares with your "neutral"...

Which one do you like the best??

Alex

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

The best combo I've heard with T90

 

[MrMan]

so after a month of using the TH900 pads i didn't realize how much the bass bleed into the other ranges. Switched back to stock pads and enjoying the sound again. If you love pure slow bass the th900 is superior. Anything outside of that go with stock.

 

[Storydog]

Who has experience with the T 90 on Schiit Magni 2?

Since a longer time I think about the experiment to buy a head phone amp to improve the sound quality against my older midclass Hifi amps.
Sources are a CD-Player Marantz CD 42 mk II and a record player Dual 601.
I think on amps like the Beyerdynamic A 20, Lake People G 103, Amity HP-A 9 S or Meier Audio Corda Rock/Jazz.
But the Magni 2(Uber) is at his price interesting. Have a opportunity to buy one Magni 2(non-Uber) used.

 

[adydula]

Magni 3 for $99!!!

 

[terry parr]

Well, after two weeks of at least some listening-time with the T90 everyday (and most days have averaged about a couple of hours, off-and-on, not continuous listening), I have to agree with the folks who earlier in this thread characterized the T90 as having a "U-Shaped" sound signature. Definitely not a "V-Shaped" one, but the T90 just does not convey certain sound elements that can be clearly heard on the K701 (the Austrian-Made version that I've had for years), and the K702 (the later Chinese-Made version). Simple. And I have all three headphones here within arms' reach, at the ready so that I can directly compare. (Which I haven't done, yet. I still want to give the T90's an extended period of time where I listen to only these headphones, rather than constantly switching back-and-forth). I want the sound signature overall and my impression of the particulars of this h/p to "settle-in." Plus, I'm listening to quite a bit of music where I'm already intimately familiar with how the 701 and 702 portray fine details of particular tracks.

I hesitate to call the T90 "veiled" in the mids, but it's getting close.

The T90 can be a fun headphone if you're listening to pop (the extra bass texture and impact down low in the lower frequencies, which both the AKG phones mentioned above, lack) is enjoyable to hear. But, if you're listening to a familiar recording with the T90, certain elements are more "faint" and restrained. There are times when listening to a complicated mix, that has a lot instruments and possible sound efx going on, that if you were listening to that track for the first time with the T90, you'd probably miss a thing, or two (or, three) and would never know the song had that acoustic guitar (or, whatever) added to a dense mix.

The T90 simply isn't as resolving in the mids or in the lower treble as either of the AKG phones mentioned above. It's this section in the T90 that has a "veiled" aspect, (or "recessed" aspect) compared to these other two headphones.

No headphone is perfect. (Well, let me take that back, because I haven't heard every headphone out there). I've owned a GRADO RS-1i (which I found to be "off" both in tone and timbre when it came to reproducing a Steinway grand in a jazz trio context), but an otherwise "acceptable" headphone. I'd place the T90 in the same category. Acceptable.

I do like the clean upper extension (no distortion) of the T90, and the bass impact and texture (although not on the same level as the LCD-3, but I wasn't expecting that, either).

One of the things that I have noticed that improves the sound of the T90 is if I dis-engage the "loudness" feature on the vintage amp that I'm using. This seems to allow for the bass to take its' proper place and allows for a bit (a bit) more of both the middle frequencies and lower treble to be heard. (As in making the drummer's "brush work" on a snare sound a bit more realistic, rather than sounding like an artificial, synthesized sound sample of it).

I was thinking that the T90 would really put the AKG 701-2's "in the shade." It doesn't quite do that, because while I'm enjoying my time with the T90 and appreciating what these headphones do well, there's still that feeling that these headphones don't quite scratch the itch, like I was hoping they would.


I haven't listened to any other headphone since the T90's got here two weeks ago, and I'll continue to only listen to the T90's for a while yet, in order to listen-out for any changes to them (or, my ears adjusting to them). (The K-701 made me a believer of "break-in", even though I never detected that change with any other headphone since, including the 702's). If I hadn't noticed the change in the sound of the 701 for myself, I'd probably think that "burn-in" was nonsense. So, while I'm allowing for the possibility of a slight change to the sound of the T90, with them breaking-in, I'm on-guard not to fool myself into hearing something only because I want to hear it. But, I haven't noticed any changes with the T90, so far. (And, from what I've read from others who have them, I'm not really expecting much of a change from this headphone, because I don't see this being talked about).

I think the T90's will stick around (I'll investigate some tweaking and maybe some modding to these headphones, although from the pad-swapping posts that I've read, most want to do this in order to increase the bass). Ugh. No. If anything, I'd change-out the pads to hopefully introduce a fuller midrange, and an easier-to-hear lower treble section. I won't kick the T90's to the curb as I did with the "flash in the pan" LCD-3's. There's something to work with here, in the T90's, but it just seems "we aren't quite there, yet."



"Happy Listening" and "Enjoy the Music" to any-and-everyone who just read my thoughts. You're welcome to disagree and leave your thoughts and opinions and/or advice, of course.