[Argyris]

That could very well be. Measurement evidence doesn't always translate into perceivable phenomena, and in this case it could be coincidence. I just thought that article was interesting because the measurements do seem to corroborate with what people usually say, at least about the 32 ohm version. As far as quality control, I also happen to know that there are some very well driver-matched DT880s out there, since every time I see a measurement of one the tracking is excellent. Clearly they put some effort into their (former) flagship reference can. I would certainly expect them to, since they cost $400 MSRP today and they're not even TOTL anymore.
 
I suppose the only way to be sure of any of this is to measure a lot of samples and do a lot of listening tests to see if there's a consistent difference, and that would take a tremendous amount of time and effort.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
I think the differences might be exaggerated, but there's solid science and measurements behind the idea that there is a difference.
 
Have you seen this article:
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones

 
I did read it, and what I took from it is what only seems logical: that in most circumstances and with most amplifiers there's a far bigger difference between the 32 and 250 ohm than the 250 and 600 ohm. Clearly the 32ohm is to be avoided unless you need the sensitivity, but the 250/600ohm appears to be a matter of choice. I had a 600ohm for a few days but preferred the 250ohm. However the 600ohm was well used, with slightly depressed earpads, and I don't know to what degree that would affect the sound. In any case I find the 250ohm quite exceptional.
 
No doubt this has been answered many times, but I seemed to have missed it. What is the difference between Pro and Premium other than clamping force?

 

[Argyris]

Quote:

No doubt this has been answered many times, but I seemed to have missed it. What is the difference between Pro and Premium other than clamping force?

 
The headband on the Pro is more padded than on the Premium and the cable is coiled. Also, the badges say "DT880 Pro" rather than just "DT880." For all practical purposes, they're basically the same headphone, to the point that I actually got a price match on a Premium at HeadRoom by accidentally sending them a link for a Pro--the difference was subtle enough that I missed it entirely, and of course I was still new at all this. Jorge over at HR was kind enough to give me the match, anyway, for which I'm forever grateful.
 
I've read some accounts that the extra clamping force tweaks the balance very slightly by bringing the drivers closer to the ear, but others which say the effect is subtle at best.

 

[fotoralf]

Quote:

Incidentally, has anyone read this review: http://kenrockwell.com/audio/beyer/dt-880.htm  

Oh, Kennyboy...
 
He's universaly known for his ability to write long articles about cameras he has definitely never tried.
 
Quote:

I have a big sense of humor, and do this site to entertain you (and myself), as well as to inform and to educate. I occasionally weave fiction and satire into my stories to keep them interesting. I love a good hoax.

 
 
You might want to have a look at this bevore delving any deeper into his site:
 
http://www.kenrockwell.com/about.htm
 
Ralf

 

[Argyris]

Quote:

Oh, Kennyboy...
 
He's universaly known for his ability to write long articles about cameras he has definitely never tried.
 
 
 
You might want to have a look at this bevore delving any deeper into his site:
 
http://www.kenrockwell.com/about.htm
 
Ralf

 
Wow. Big himself up much? 

 
There were a few odd things he said. Something about all headphones having the same soundstage. Not sure I've ever heard anybody who knew what a soundstage was say that. He also pointed out a similarity between the styling of the old DT990 and the Stax Lambda, and then between the new DT880 and the Stax Omega, and he suggested between the lines that it may have been deliberate. I've never considered that before, and somehow I think it's a bit of a stretch. Though not impossible, considering Beyer stated quite clearly they were shooting for electrostat-level sound with the DT880/990.

 

[DOCisChief]

From my time on camera forums I've found that people don't usually take him serious at all.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

There were a few odd things he said. Something about all headphones having the same soundstage. Not sure I've ever heard anybody who knew what a soundstage was say that.

 
 
I think I know what he means. To most people headphones are headphones; compared to speakers the sound is in your head. I must admit I'm not into soundstage; I never really notice it. But then I couldn't make out 3D either, the first time I saw it back in the 60s.
 
Quote:

Oh, Kennyboy...
 
He's universaly known for his ability to write long articles about cameras he has definitely never tried.
 
 
 
You might want to have a look at this bevore delving any deeper into his site:
 
http://www.kenrockwell.com/about.htm
 
Ralf

 
All I got from that was that he's a bit of a joker and has a healthy ego. As to his opinions on camera, I wouldn't know one camera from another. His review of the DT880 seems pretty straight on to me and accords with my own in terms of neutrality and balance (and I have a feeling I wouldn't like the HD800 any more than he does). Worth throwing into the pot along with all the other user opinions, except that, unlike most of them, he's heard some top end stuff.

 

[Argyris]

Quote:

 
 
I think I know what he means. To most people headphones are headphones; compared to speakers the sound is in your head. I must admit I'm not into soundstage; I never really notice it. But then I couldn't make out 3D either, the first time I saw it back in the 60s.
 
 
All I got from that was that he's a bit of a joker and has a healthy ego. As to his opinions on camera, I wouldn't know one camera from another. His review of the DT880 seems pretty straight on to me and accords with my own in terms of neutrality and balance (and I have a feeling I wouldn't like the HD800 any more than he does). Worth throwing into the pot along with all the other user opinions, except that, unlike most of them, he's heard some top end stuff.

 
Certainly. I thought about it afterward and I think you're right. Some people just can't get on with the headphone presentation, or else they define it coarsely and move on. A lot of what we perceive as soundstage in headphones is illusion, anyway, since depth and height are technically impossible but some headphones nonetheless manage to give the impression that they're rendering these cues. It's never the same thing as speakers, though, and the delta between different headphone presentations is considerably smaller than that between the presentation of any given headphone and a good speaker setup.
 
I've encountered some fascinating soundstage illusions. One of the most recent was on a recording by E. Power Biggs of four of Bach's toccata and fugues, which were performed in a cathedral with four different organs all controlled from one central console. You can switch them on and off at will. They had some sound snippets on Amazon to let you get a feel for the various pieces included with the collection, and the effect was uncanny: against all convention and everything I know to be true about how stereo sound through headphones works, I swear it feels like the sound field is more than 180 degrees and that stuff is actually coming from behind you. I bought the album just based on that (and, obviously, I like Bach and organ music in general).

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
Certainly. I thought about it afterward and I think you're right. Some people just can't get on with the headphone presentation, or else they define it coarsely and move on. A lot of what we perceive as soundstage in headphones is illusion, anyway, since depth and height are technically impossible but some headphones nonetheless manage to give the impression that they're rendering these cues. It's never the same thing as speakers, though, and the delta between different headphone presentations is considerably smaller than that between the presentation of any given headphone and a good speaker setup.
 
 

 
I will say that I've been a touch more aware of depth with the DT880 than with most headphones. That does seem to be one of its strengths, probably a natural and inevitable consequence of its neutrality. But it's a minor factor with headphones, and I must say, listen as hard as I might even with phones of the calibre of LCD-2 and HE-500, I cannot hear anything like a real orchestra laid out before me.
 
Here's the thing though. Frustrated by that inability, the last time I went to an orchestral concert I shut my eyes and tried to "see" the orchestra with my mind's eye, and found it just as fuzzy and ill defined as with my headphones. I think much of the depth we "hear" at concerts comes from actually seeing musician's "tiered" before us. Take away those visual clues and depth becomes much less defined. 

 

[Argyris]

Quote:

 
I will say that I've been a touch more aware of depth with the DT880 than with most headphones. That does seem to be one of its strengths, probably a natural and inevitable consequence of its neutrality. But it's a minor factor with headphones, and I must say, listen as hard as I might even with phones of the calibre of LCD-2 and HE-500, I cannot hear anything like a real orchestra laid out before me.
 
Here's the thing though. Frustrated by that inability, the last time I went to an orchestral concert I shut my eyes and tried to "see" the orchestra with my mind's eye, and found it just as fuzzy and ill defined as with my headphones. I think much of the depth we "hear" at concerts comes from actually seeing musician's "tiered" before us. Take away those visual clues and depth becomes much less defined. 

 
I think you're spot on. I've had the exact same sensation when watching a concert. Imaging especially is virtually nonexistent, apart from very obvious cues (the soloist on the end is going to sound very slightly panned to his or her side). In fact, every live performance I've ever seen has been like listening in mono, except with the sense of presence and ambiance being presented in stereo.
 
There's some give and take with the headphone presentation. They're incapable of presenting a 360 degree sound field, and they're technically incapable of depth and height (though the DT880 does a good job of producing the illusion of both these things), but they can make detail a lot more apparent and they exaggerate location cues (that soloist is now clearly on his/her side instead of just slightly off center).
 
Another problem with headphones is that the entire presentation moves when you move your head. Obviously a real performance isn't going to do this. Even sitting still it's not quite right because the sensation of distance just isn't there. I've caught myself being surprised by the proximity of the cups on occasion, though--clearly my brain was interpreting the sound as coming from a point just outside my head and was momentarily jarred by the presence of the headphone slightly closer than it had calculated through what it was hearing. It's a weird uncanny valley effect that nevertheless delights me every time it happens because it reminds me just how excellent the DT880 really is.

 

[ayaflo]

I would like to share my opinion and how much of a fan I am to the dt 990 pro sound .. 
 
I think for the price i got it, it offers unprecedented bang for the buck .. for watching movies out of my a/v receiver they provide stellar imaging, detail and comfort.
 
I always get these criticism of how they have recessed mids and I do not agree.. to my ears the mids are just a  tad bit recessed but exceptional and on their own .. a preferable U-shape .. 
 
I think this is what sounds balanced to my ears ... I do not think I can really have any upgrade from these other than going for some stax. these are among the best you can get. .way above you just get 'other' versions...  
 
as for the build quality /// these are elemental but darn too strongly built! 

 

[ayaflo]

 
 
thats my favourite rig ..

 

[LaineR]

My first post of many i hope Thought id chime in as i've just aquired my first set of entry level headphones.
 
Started while i discovered my minidisc player under my bed about 6 months back, and discovered that it sounded so much better than my iPod with standard ear buds. This then prompted me to look for some semi decent portable headphones pickedup some AT-WS55i for £50 and loved them for what they were. But now wanted more.
 
Got myself a HRT Music Streamer II DAC, Little Dot MK II Tube amp with Mullard M8100 / Russian Gold Grid 6N6P and last but not least a set fo Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium (600 Ohm).
 
I am not home yet to plug them into my amp (litterally just got them for Xmas), so only listening them on a headphone out port on my laptop (lol), although theres no power at all for bass they still sound incredibly detailed and good i was shocked. I cannot wait to get home and feed them the power they deserve

 

[Argyris]

Quote:

My first post of many i hope Thought id chime in as i've just aquired my first set of entry level headphones.
 
Started while i discovered my minidisc player under my bed about 6 months back, and discovered that it sounded so much better than my iPod with standard ear buds. This then prompted me to look for some semi decent portable headphones pickedup some AT-WS55i for £50 and loved them for what they were. But now wanted more.
 
Got myself a HRT Music Streamer II DAC, Little Dot MK II Tube amp with Mullard M8100 / Russian Gold Grid 6N6P and last but not least a set fo Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium (600 Ohm).
 
I am not home yet to plug them into my amp (litterally just got them for Xmas), so only listening them on a headphone out port on my laptop (lol), although theres no power at all for bass they still sound incredibly detailed and good i was shocked. I cannot wait to get home and feed them the power they deserve

 
Welcome to the wonderful world of headphones! Also, welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet. 

 
It sounds like you've already got a pretty nice setup going there. Of course now you need to get a really nice (not just decent) portable set, maybe some IEMs, and maybe a secondary closed full-sized headphone, and....
 
When you get into headphones, your ears will be richer but you will be poorer.

 

[ksimm033]

Are the DT770 a good can for mainstream R&B, Hip-Hop and Country? Do they isolate well/comfortable? And are they worth using, when listening to MP3 files (meaning is there any sense since it's not lossless)?