[Currawong]

Straight through DB9 serial cables:

DB9 Serial Cable Male to Male at Cables4computer

or Google straight through db9 serial cable male to male -female

 

[IPodPJ]

Phoenix Discovery 101

Ever since I got back from the meet I've felt something is missing from the Phoenix -- that even though it has better layering in my opinion than the B22, it just doesn't have the detail or bass impact of the B22. It sounds thinner and lacking body, and the bass is muddy and lacking detail in comparison. Or should I say....... it did.

Well today when I got home from work I tried plugging back in the stock Sennheiser cable to see if SE would have more body to it even though the separation and detail wouldn't be on par with balanced. It did. So then I got thinking of some stuff Jude and I were discussing, about output impedance of amps and how the HD800 seem to prefer a higher output impedance, something we've both noticed. Maybe the Phoenix would benefit from adding a resistor(?) to the balanced headphone output since the Phoenix's output impedance is 3 ohm. Well I can't do that now on my own so I was wondering what else I could try. For the heck of it I decided to plug my SE interconnects back in -- from my WBT Nextgen outputs on my DAC to input 1 on the Phoenix -- all the while still using the balanced headphone outputs. Presto!

The XLR inputs on the Phoenix are subpar. But the good thing is that the amp is every bit as good as the balanced B22 now (as best as I can recollect). I can't explain why this is as it seems to defy normal logic if everything is wired the same. Obviously the balanced outputs on my DAC are fine because they sounded great with the B22. Therefore I conclude that the XLR inputs on the Phoenix are either wired in such a way that is hindering performance, or the more likely scenario: they are just poor quality connectors. If SE sounds this good I can't wait to hear what the CAST inputs sound like. (Had I known at the time I bought the Phoenix that I would be getting the Reference One, I would have had Lemo connectors installed on both the Phoenix and the Reference One.)

I suggest all of you Phoenix owners running balanced headphones give this a try.

Also, let me mention that the WBT Nextgen connectors are supposedly the best SE connectors on the market. They reduce eddy currents more than any other connector including the Eichman Bullets. So perhaps if there were better XLR connectors installed on the Phoenix the issue I'm encountering would no longer be an issue. I think I'm going to have to replace them. The bass coming out of the HD800 now is just awesome. And the bass on the HD800 is the hardest part to control due to its crazy impedance curve -- it jumps from 300 ohm to 600 ohm at 100 Hz. and then back down to 300 ohm again. Anyone that says the HD800 have poor or little bass have obviously never heard them with the Phoenix or balanced B22.

 

[haloxt]

Maybe XRL ^^ adds too much detail on top of your already very detailed headphones. I get edgy when barraged with all-encompassing realism from 1 inch from my ears, so when I need to relax I listen to the monotone droning of my mp3 player and mid-fi headphones. I'd like to use the Phoenix in a speaker setup one day though, just need to buy speakers and an amp doh.

 

[IPodPJ]

No, it's just the opposite. The XLR input is less detailed and muddier. But my system isn't edgy at all. It took a lot of power cord matching (especially with my transport) to get it to sound like smooth analog and not edgy digital.

If your headphone system sounds edgy and makes you feel fatigued, your components need fine tuning or replacement -- eventually.

It took me a long time and a lot of money to get it to sound as good as it does. This isn't a cheap hobby, but surely cheaper than high-end amateur astronomy which is something I could never afford to get into. I did have a nice telescope at one point, a 10" Meade Schmidt-Cassegrain (and unfortunately had to sell it a long time ago) but it didn't come close to comparing to the very expensive apochromatic refractors I used to look through at star parties on Mt. Pinos.

 

[JamesL]

Didn't you say earlier that the bal input bal output sounded miles better than the se input bal output?
It doesn't defy logic though as you say...
There would have to be a SE-balanced converter of some sort in order to run your balanced headphones. Either that, or the amp automatically switches the negative rails of your balanced output to passive ground.

Also, unbalanced interconnects(and connectors) are technically inferior to balanced interconnects (unless you're using some fancy unorthodox balanced IC's that degrade performance)

 

[haloxt]

The sound isn't edgy, I am just getting disturbed at having realistic sound coming at me from 1".

 

[Currawong]

I thought the XLRs are all Neutrik? Anyway, using all three outputs of the Ref 1 to all 3 inputs of the Phoenix, using the same model cable for RCA and XLR, and there wasn't much in it, at least nothing that couldn't be suggested by slightly different volume levels. It could be your DAC. You should also consider getting an SPL meter to be sure it isn't a result of volume levels being different.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesL /img/forum/go_quote.gif Didn't you say earlier that the bal input bal output sounded miles better than the se input bal output? It doesn't defy logic though as you say... There would have to be a SE-balanced converter of some sort in order to run your balanced headphones. Either that, or the amp automatically switches the negative rails of your balanced output to passive ground. Also, unbalanced interconnects(and connectors) are technically inferior to balanced interconnects (unless you're using some fancy unorthodox balanced IC's that degrade performance)

Initially when I got the amp I did say that yes, but I also hadn't spent much time with it and it had very few hours on it compared to now, as well as no hours put on the balanced headphone cable, and not nearly as many hours on the HD800. In addition, I did a lot of power cable swapping after that, I let the amp warm up now for several hours before I use it, I use optical now whereas I used coax before, and I now also use 96kHz upsampling vs. 192kHz -- many variables have changed.

As far as how it does the conversion, you'd have to ask Kingwa on that. I have no idea.

 

[Yikes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I use optical now whereas I used coax before, and I now also use 96kHz upsampling vs. 192kHz -- many variables have changed.

TOS optical (Even the best OPT cables) is nowhere near as good as any properly implemented COAX 75 Ohm digital cable. It's almost as crappy as using a USB connection.

I believe that you are hearing what you say, but I suspect that you are obsessing and convincing yourself into hearing new issues. You might need to take a Zanex and try to enjoy the music.

If you're not careful Audiophilia Nervosa can suck all of the joy out of listening to the music that got you into it in the first place.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes /img/forum/go_quote.gif TOS optical (Even the best OPT cables) is nowhere near as good as any properly implemented COAX 75 Ohm digital cable. It's almost as crappy as using a USB connection. I believe that you are hearing what you say, but I suspect that you are obsessing and convincing yourself into hearing new issues. You might need to take a Zanex and try to enjoy the music. If you're not careful Audiophilia Nervosa can suck all of the joy out of listening to the music that got you into it in the first place.

Well I will use BNC with the Ref-1, for sure. And no, optical is still way better than any implementation I've heard with USB. But I do agree that the coax is not properly implemented or there would be no sonic difference between cables.

How about you just don't comment on me obsessing or convincing myself or think I'm delusional yadda yadda yadda... if you don't believe it, just don't respond. We are all here to post our impressions and what we notice. If I had said that the Phoenix had a minor clicking noise in the right channel you wouldn't believe me on that either I'm sure. Funny how my amp seems to be one of the only ones without that issue. And I did a back and forth comparison with SE and XLR input for my girlfriend and she agrees that SE sounds better.

Nothing is sucking the joy out of this hobby. I enjoy tuning my system to get the best sound possible as much as I enjoy sitting and listening to the music, as much as I enjoy talking to people at meets. It's part of the hobby and I love all aspects equally. You do not have my headphones or my system so you cannot possibly say what is or what is not different. And we have established that every Phoenix so far has had different issues so to dismiss the fact that mine sounds better one way (even if yours does not) is just foolish.

I will be using CAST (assuming I like the Reference One) and once he completes my Squeezebox transport in a few months I will use BNC to the DAC. I choose to use optical with my DL3 because I was tired of hearing variations/setbacks in certain parts of the frequency spectrum due to signal reflections from (what I believe to be) poor, non 75-ohm impedance mismatching on both DAC and SB. I have a very good clock in my DL3 so jitter is a non-issue there (Audiocom Superclock 4-S, <2ps) but I'm sure there are issues with the SB which is why I asked Kingwa to make me a high quality one.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Les, how are your DIY Lemo CAST cables coming along ?

Peete.

PS: My amp behaves without issue, no clicking, no cold start relay hunting. I'll take it.

PJ turn off upsampling and listen to the source material at it's original bit/sampling rate and see if the upsampling option is adding unwanted side effects. I have a Anagram tech hardware upsampler that no matter what I did up or downstream of it I couldn't eliminate entirely a sheen or effect that was applied to everything that it resampled/reclocked (24/192 oddly enough which your GF pointed out).Try the files at their native rates for a few days and report back. I can't stand upsampling anymore but that is just me. As always EMMV (everyone's mileage may vary

compared to mine

 

[Pyriel0]

Lol great avatar Peete

Have there been any other thoughts after initial impressions from other people? If there were, I missed them from all Ipodpj's posting.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Les, how are your DIY Lemo CAST cables coming along ? Peete.

Finished tem a couple weeks ago.

.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Finished tem a couple weeks ago. .

and

Whaddya think vs SE or regular balanced ?

Peete.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif PJ turn off upsampling and listen to the source material at it's original bit/sampling rate and see if the upsampling option is adding unwanted side effects. I have a Anagram tech hardware upsampler that no matter what I did up or downstream of it I couldn't eliminate entirely a sheen or effect that was applied to everything that it resampled/reclocked (24/192 oddly enough which your GF pointed out).Try the files at their native rates for a few days and report back. I can't stand upsampling anymore but that is just me. As always EMMV (everyone's mileage may vary compared to mine

I take it you're unfamiliar with the PS Audio DL3. You can't turn it off. You have two options: 96kHz or 192kHz.

I wish it had Anagram Technologies gear inside of it though. Anagram does it better than anyone else.