[ulyses]

Quote:

Hmmmm  Doesn't everything ( caps, wire, cables, psu, etc etc ) in the signal path affect EQ???   Isn't that why some products can be varied to sound warm, thin, detailed,  etc etc.  Shouldn't it be about the Music???  Subjective??  Already ppl are making judgements about how it will sound based  on pure speculation on what they think it will sound like.  What about just letting our ears be the judge.  If  product A is technically superior and passes a  bit perfect signal but  doesn't sound as good as B to your ears, which one will you listen to??  I think some will actually listen to A because its technically superior, even if its sonic capability is inferior.  Count me on the side of the best sounding unit, whichever technology is used.  

Definitely. I can sing under this post.

 

[Omega17TheTrue]

@leepery
 
Did you actually hear a R2R Dac instead of basing your opinion on engineer quotes ? Science and theory is great but the real test is only done by the ears. (and blind to avoid placebo)

 

[ninjikiran]

I think the point is any processing and wow'ing of the signal should be handled in the dac device, or any other devices you have in that path. Wow'ing the signal should not be the goal of a transport.
 

 

[Trapper32]

Quote:

I think the point is any processing and wow'ing of the signal should be handled in the dac device, or any other devices you have in that path. Wow'ing the signal should not be the goal of a transport.
 

I think I'll leave the goal of designing audio components to those with more experience and knowledge than me.  But I will  judge them with my ears.  Those scopes and graphs only go so far in defining soundstage, instrument separation (air) , etc etc

.  

 

[ninjikiran]

I agree those scopes and graphs are only useful to a degree in telling you where audio peaks and if the peak is huge resulting in a painful experience on your ears .  But it would be bad design(unless explicitly purposeful) to design a transport that colors the signal.  This of course is ignoring the physical problems.

 

[haloxt]

Component choice is different than eq'ing. Let's not make a big deal about whether we want eq or dsp or not, the stated purpose of this device is jitter reduction. Make a big deal out of it if it turns out it can't pass the bit-perfect test .

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

 

Oversampling is done within the DAC chip at the conversion stage, anything else is called upsampling...and should be avoided in many ppl's opinions(including mine): http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2

 

 
Quote:

The only thing upsampling does is feed interpolated bogus data to the DAC oversampling algorithm..and yes, we can measure the THD/THD+N increase very easily. Some ppl might still like it, but there is no question that it's coloring the sound.

 
My bad, I need to remind myself about these things.  Thanks for the link. 

 

[leeperry]

  

@leepery
 
Did you actually hear a R2R Dac instead of basing your opinion on engineer quotes ? Science and theory is great but the real test is only done by the ears. (and blind to avoid placebo)

 
Yes, it's like those chinese NOS...I don't buy the "trust your ears" argument no more, and I'm not in the market for grossly overpriced obsolete technologies kthx.
 
And am I daydreaming or there's no datasheet whatsoever for that DSP3 chip? Audio-GD has such a good niche, a lot of ppl willing to pay shipping costs both ends for a new product running a DSP w/o any datasheet available(or technical specs for that matter), I presume it does "very good low jitter reduction"...that's what I call a sales argument

 

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
My bad, I need to remind myself about these things.

 
having the 192kHz led lighting up on your DAC is sheer sexiness, I'll give you that

 

[Currawong]

I shall be evil and say, on both the Northstar M192 MK1 I used to own, and the current Ref 3 upsampler (I didn't get it for that though) any difference between up-sampled and not was less than the difference I felt I got between power cables. 

 
Anyway, aren't we supposed to be talking about the USB Face? Or has all the drama shifted to the Hiface clock chip issue? 

 

[Trapper32]

Quote:

  
 
Yes, it's like those chinese NOS...I don't buy the "trust your ears" argument no more, and I'm not in the market for grossly overpriced obsolete technologies kthx.
 
 

 
Lol..who ya gonna believe...your lying ears or ME ??

 

[erin]

Quote:

  
 
Yes, it's like those chinese NOS...I don't buy the "trust your ears" argument no more, and I'm not in the market for grossly overpriced obsolete technologies

what about very resonably priced obsolete technology?
TDA1541 all the way.............

 

[Audio Bling]

Quote:

[..] 
And am I daydreaming or there's no datasheet whatsoever for that DSP3 chip? Audio-GD has such a good niche, a lot of ppl willing to pay shipping costs both ends for a new product running a DSP w/o any datasheet available(or technical specs for that matter), I presume it does "very good low jitter reduction"...that's what I call a sales argument

[..]
 

 
[size=10pt]It seems to me Kingwa’s “sales argument” is not so much the [/size][size=10pt]"[promise of] very good low jitter reduction" but more that there are fifteen testers up for reporting criticism or praise. Yes, it would be good to have a “datasheet”; IMO, better to get your hot little hands on it and have a listen.. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]As to what the DSP-3 actually does; I won’t say this is unimportant. However, what if it turns out that it is not bit perfect but still sounded fantastic; what then? I think this is what slim.a was getting at to a degree in an earlier post. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]BTW. Anyone seen my post here? (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/423960/musiland-monitor-01-usd-24-192-usb-to-spdif/840#post_6794696) Anyone care to respond?[/size]

 

[regal]

that would be fine but it wouldn't be a transport and shouldn't be compared to transports.  Lets say it is not bit perfect and we find it applies +5db bass boost.  Yea it might sound great with your setup,  but wouldn't you rather apply eq under your control rather than some pseudo-transport?
 
Quote:

 

 

[regal]

completely wrong.   R2R DAC's are much less susceptible  to jitter.  You need to study before posting such nonsense.
Quote:

 
Aren't we talking about obsolete parts here?

The best audiopath is the shortest, and delta-sigma DAC's such as the AK4396 and its newer revisions do it all at once in the same chip, providing "the performance and linearity of a delta-sigma device with the noise performance of an R-2R part"...you seem to care about jitter, yet you're OK to use an external oversampling chip? I sense contradiction in your faith, Jedi.
 
Just as a reminder: 

 

[Audio Bling]

 
Quote:

[..]
that would be fine but it wouldn't be a transport and shouldn't be compared to transports.  Lets say it is not bit perfect and we find it applies +5db bass boost.  Yea it might sound great with your setup,  but wouldn't you rather apply eq under your control rather than some pseudo-transport?
[..]

I agree to an extent. In some definitional sense, I suppose, it would not be a "transport". But do all transports sound the same? My experience is that every device, every cable, every piece of software, every resistor, every whatever, comes with its own "sonic signature". If absolute transparency is the criteria then transports seem not exist at all. Can anyone tell me what 100010.. is supposed to sound like? No two transports seem to agree on the question.
 
But I do get your point. It's a can of worms, really.