[kwkarth]

I respect your opinion.

 

[Lan647]

Quote:

 
 
This peak business has been discussed time and time again in this thread in a way that is potentially misleading.  I'll reiterate some of the comments I posted a while back that bear keeping in mind:
 
A peak at 6khz is basically irrelevant to anything but overtones if you are listening to recordings of vocals and natural instruments.  (See: http://www.listenhear.co.uk/general_acoustics.htm  )  Violins cut off, on the high end around 3.5khz - and even piccolos only extend to around 5khz.  A serious spike sub-4khz (see Beyer's DT880s) *might* be a real factor with respect to fatigue and treble balance, but peaks at 5khz and beyond do not matter in terms of core frequencies (unless you listening to a lot of recordings featuring the highest pitched pipes on a pipe organ).

 

The 6khz peak will impact overtones - which are the bases on which we perceive tone/timbre and distinguish between one instrument/voice and another.  However, my perspective is that the serious dip in the LCD-2's curve (as much as 15db!), at 6-8khz (depending on whether you're looking at the higher or lower amplitude curve), likely causes just a much, if not more, alteration/degradation in tone as the HD800's peak at 6khz.

 

I don't own the LCD-2's (so you may write me off on that basis), but I recently spent about 45 minutes critically listening to them in a silent room while trying to make a final decision as to whether or not to buy them.  They are great phones that do a whole lot of things right, but for me, the tone and texture of violins was not one of those things.  I attribute this (correctly or incorrectly) to their treble roll-off.  For example, in Chanticleer's superb recording "Evening Prayer - Purcell Anthems & Sacred Songs" the violins simply sounded a bit too smooth to be real.  To my ears, the textured and subtle bite of their highs just wasn't there.  I absolutely love the LCD-2's for rock, but in the classical realm and even with some bluegrass, my conclusion was that my HD650's (v2) (to say nothing of the HD800's) actually give a more honest, textured presentation of strings than the much loved Audeze's.  For live music recorded in large spaces (i.e. cathedrals) the perceived sound stage of the LCD-2's is also quite a let down compared to the HD800's.    

 

 

 

[baka1969]

@skeptic


I've had similar experiences that you've had. I will say, though, that better amping does improve the treble roll off and staging perception. I still prefer the HD800.

 

[Skylab]

I know this is a LCD-2 vs. HD800 thread, but I still think I will toss out there that for people who are willing to amp them properly, and want a brighter sound than the LCD-2, but like some of the other things they do, that the HE-6 are a better choice than the HD-800.  I personally think the HE-6 are much better than the HD800, but they do have a somewhat similar tonal balance. 
 
JMO of course, but I do own all of them.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I know this is a LCD-2 vs. HD800 thread, but I still think I will toss out there that for people who are willing to amp them properly, and want a brighter sound than the LCD-2, but like some of the other things they do, that the HE-6 are a better choice than the HD-800.  I personally think the HE-6 are much better than the HD800, but they do have a somewhat similar tonal balance. 
 
JMO of course, but I do own all of them.

Agreed.  Another thought one might entertain is a pair of Koss ESP 950s as an adjunct to the LCD-2.  The HE-6 probably has better bass extension than the 950s, but I'm not sure as I don't have a pair to compare, but the balance and presentation of the 950s is a nice alternative balance to the LCD-2s.
 
 

 

[skeptic]

@kw: I respect yours as well!  In fact, the thoughtfully expressed differences of opinion reflected in this thread are undoubtedly what keeps me coming back to it time and time again, even if the discussion has become a bit circular.  That's probably to be expected though in a thread dedicated to nitpicking about the pros and cons of two absolute top-tier pairs of phones. 
 
@baka: Thanks for the reply and the pointer re amping.  I'll definitely be on the lookout for more opportunities to sample the LCD-2's in different rigs.  There's no question that they are fabulous phones, but for present purposes, given the way my ears function and the musical genres I'm currently spending the most time with, I think the 800's are going to be the most enjoyable pick for me.  This is made all the more true by virtue of my recently completed Bottlehead Crack kit - which I adore and which seems to be simply a sublime match for Senns.  Off-topic - I should also thank you again for giving me such a bargain on your old BCT transport.  My listening has increased substantially due to the ease of running my DAC off my laptop, and I think its a far better source than either my arcam or the digital output from my x-fi. 
 
@skylab/kw: Thank you for the helpful recommendations regarding the HE-6 and/or Koss stats as possible compromises given my listening preferences.  I will certainly have to find a time to give these headphones a taste test at a meet sometime soon.  A year or two ago, I almost jumped on a cheap pair of the 950's up on the for sale forum - but I have yet to actually see them in person.  Would you say that they have more of a bottom end than your average pair of stax?  

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

@kw: I respect yours as well!  In fact, the thoughtfully expressed differences of opinion reflected in this thread are undoubtedly what keeps me coming back to it time and time again, even if the discussion has become a bit circular.  That's probably to be expected though in a thread dedicated to nitpicking about the pros and cons of two absolute top-tier pairs of phones. 
 
@baka: Thanks for the reply and the pointer re amping.  I'll definitely be on the lookout for more opportunities to sample the LCD-2's in different rigs.  There's no question that they are fabulous phones, but for present purposes, given the way my ears function and the musical genres I'm currently spending the most time with, I think the 800's are going to be the most enjoyable pick for me.  This is made all the more true by virtue of my recently completed Bottlehead Crack kit - which I adore and which seems to be simply a sublime match for Senns.  Off-topic - I should also thank you again for giving me such a bargain on your old BCT transport.  My listening has increased substantially due to the ease of running my DAC off my laptop, and I think its a far better source than either my arcam or the digital output from my x-fi. 
 
@skylab/kw: Thank you for the helpful recommendations regarding the HE-6 and/or Koss stats as possible compromises given my listening preferences.  I will certainly have to find a time to give these headphones a taste test at a meet sometime soon.  A year or two ago, I almost jumped on a cheap pair of the 950's up on the for sale forum - but I have yet to actually see them in person.  Would you say that they have more of a bottom end than your average pair of stax?  

Not sure how others here feel about this, but I personally put the Koss ESP-950s sonics just below the O2s and above all the other Staxen.

  And they come with a competent and flexible amplifier, and they have a lifetime guarantee, and Koss is a US company.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it, until I change my mind.
 
 

 

[24phun]

Well, I have both and have had the Koss ESP-950s. Don't miss the Koss at all. On the other hand, I don't think I will sell either the LCD-2 or the HD 800s. They are both great to my ears, but very different (as must be painfully obvious by now)! Depends on my mood, depends on the recording or music type - heck it may depend on the alignment of the moon and planets.
I will say that if you can afford only one you should still be happier than a clam! If you are after total resolution, super comfort, and you don't mind the bias tilted towards the upper end - HD800.
A warmer, fuller bottom end with a more substantial feel on your head: LCD -2.

 

[grokit]

These headphones both have their strengths but they do not compare well when A/B'ing against each other. The LCD-2 can sound thick and soft with too much resonance/reverb if it is listened to right after the HD800, and the HD800 can conversely sound thin and distant, a bit metallic/cold if sampled right after the LCD-2. But if allowed to stand on their own these are both excellent headphones; the LCD-2 becomes clear with excellent timbre and intimacy, and the HD800 becomes more organic sounding with an unparalleled soundstage. My advice is to pick just one and go with it for the entire day if you own both because their sonic signatures are so fundamentally opposite that the brain takes a while to adapt to the differences.
 

 

[pcf]

Quote:

These headphones both have their strengths but they do not compare well when A/B'ing against each other. The LCD-2 can sound thick and soft with too much resonance/reverb if it is listened to right after the HD800, and the HD800 can conversely sound thin and distant, a bit metallic/cold if sampled right after the LCD-2. But if allowed to stand on their own these are both excellent headphones; the LCD-2 becomes clear with excellent timbre and intimacy, and the HD800 becomes more organic sounding with an unparalleled soundstage. My advice is to pick just one and go with it for the entire day if you own both because their sonic signatures are so fundamentally opposite that the brain takes a while to adapt to the differences.
 

Best post of the day for me.
 
 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Well, I have both and have had the Koss ESP-950s. Don't miss the Koss at all. On the other hand, I don't think I will sell either the LCD-2 or the HD 800s. They are both great to my ears, but very different (as must be painfully obvious by now)! Depends on my mood, depends on the recording or music type - heck it may depend on the alignment of the moon and planets.
I will say that if you can afford only one you should still be happier than a clam! If you are after total resolution, super comfort, and you don't mind the bias tilted towards the upper end - HD800.
A warmer, fuller bottom end with a more substantial feel on your head: LCD -2.

What did you dislike about the 950s?  I find that they will reflect what you feed them.  Better answer me via PM so we don't lead things too far OT.
 

 

[dallan]

Quote:

These headphones both have their strengths but they do not compare well when A/B'ing against each other. The LCD-2 can sound thick and soft with too much resonance/reverb if it is listened to right after the HD800, and the HD800 can conversely sound thin and distant, a bit metallic/cold if sampled right after the LCD-2. But if allowed to stand on their own these are both excellent headphones; the LCD-2 becomes clear with excellent timbre and intimacy, and the HD800 becomes more organic sounding with an unparalleled soundstage. My advice is to pick just one and go with it for the entire day if you own both because their sonic signatures are so fundamentally opposite that the brain takes a while to adapt to the differences.
 

Yep, good post.  That's what i remember when a/b them too.
 

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

These headphones both have their strengths but they do not compare well when A/B'ing against each other. The LCD-2 can sound thick and soft with too much resonance/reverb if it is listened to right after the HD800, and the HD800 can conversely sound thin and distant, a bit metallic/cold if sampled right after the LCD-2. But if allowed to stand on their own these are both excellent headphones; the LCD-2 becomes clear with excellent timbre and intimacy, and the HD800 becomes more organic sounding with an unparalleled soundstage. My advice is to pick just one and go with it for the entire day if you own both because their sonic signatures are so fundamentally opposite that the brain takes a while to adapt to the differences.
 

My experience has been that my brain can adjust a bit, but the problems I hear at first listen almost always wind up bothering me in the long run even if I can get past it for an album or two late at night.  But the LCD-2 sounds resonant as heck no matter how much time I give them and it's only gotten worse since I upgraded to a new Gamma2 dac.  I don't think my brain adjusts to the sound of headphones very well...  poor brain

 

[vcoheda]

i can't imagine an amp being equally suited for both the HD800 and LCD2. preference for one over the other is probably amp based.

 

[dallan]

^ V200?