[OneEyedHito]

The bigger problem with this thread is the overabundance of snarky, moralistic arm-chair meta-commentary on questions of burn-in, EQ (gasp! EQ!), and who-knows-what will-be-next -- without contributing any hands-on impressions on the headphone in question that could back up any such opinions.

 

[Xcalibur255]

Why does it have to be this complicated? You plug it in, listen to music. Like the sound? Great, it's a keeper; not, return within the window. Graphs, reviews, eq, tf? It's a tool for enjoying recorded music. Anything more and obsessing over details is unhealthy.

Because music means different things to different people and we all process it in different ways. The hobby can also be about music AND other things at the same time. Why make a reductive statement like this? Does it bother you that other people dig into details you personally do not find relevant?

 

[mwilson]

Doesn't bother me one bit. Was just wondering is all.

 

[MN8372]

The bigger problem with this thread is the overabundance of snarky, moralistic arm-chair meta-commentary on questions of burn-in, EQ (gasp! EQ!), and who-knows-what will-be-next -- without contributing any hands-on impressions on the headphone in question that could back up any such opinions.

Ok - my hands on experience is I’m not sure sorry!

They do sound different at times (last night there appeared to be more air/transparency with more sparkle - not as dark) but I’ve no idea whether that is down to brain burn in, different recordings, my valve amp needing time to warm up, my mood, atmospheric pressure, interference on the line etc..

Personally I find it very difficult to judge but don’t rule it out. I guess I just don’t get worked up about it either way. If I am patient I know it will resolve itself after a week or two (either because there is no such thing as burn in or burn in will have occurred). The main thing is that I’m still enjoying the LCD5 very much.

Where I lose patience is the thought that they will magically transform after 500+ hours. I can’t be bothered with that. Life’s too short!

 

[Maxx134]

 

[Maxx134]

The main thing is that I’m still enjoying the LCD5 very much.

Where I lose patience is the thought that they will magically transform after 500+ hours. I can’t be bothered with that. Life’s too short

Good for you .

And I agree about burn in.
More than that, any manufacturer that makes an excuse to burn in a unit for the equivalent of one month/24hr continuously, is either waiting for you to expire the "return period", OR hoping you get used to it with "brain-burn", OR taking the gamble that your don't have another better headphone to compare with.

Burn in is real, but shouldn't be used as an excuse... And to be clear, I am not referring about Audeze, but any others with such claims.

 

[Currawong]

Anyone else finding burn-in to be important here?

I guess with the LCD5 it's especially tricky to separate any potential headphone burn-in from the always-very-real brain burn-in process, since its tonal profile definitely forces your brain to adjust, making the latter a very real thing.

For me, for what it's worth, on day 1, doing about two hours of listening, I found the headphone to sound pretty underwhelming, sounding stiff and altogether un-relaxed, and un-extended in the bass ("lacking personality" was the phrase that came to mind). Though its great technicalities were pretty obvious.

After doing 1-2 hours of listening every day since then, it was only on I think day 4 with about 60-70 hours of burn-in when I really started taking a shine to it (either with or without eq), and really started to do a lot of listening with it.

I suspect the pads are softening a bit. I noticed that the FR can shift suddenly sometimes with movement, and the position on my head makes a big difference. Since pad softening is a well-known source of FR changes in headphones, this may well be worth considering as a possible cause of some of these "burn-in" changes.

I own both the Stealth and the LCD-5, as well as the Susvara and all 3 powered by the same source chain and there is not a close comparison between the Stealth and the other two premium headphones to my ears. These trolls have been hitting all of the threads about how the Stealth is the butter to their buns........I would venture to say they are on the “Acult” Science Reviews forums with the same drivel. Been a long day so there you have it.

"Audio Science Religion", but your name for it works just as well.

FWIW, my preferences seem to align very closely with @Resolve 's, so I put a lot of stock in his reviews.

If you can find a reviewer whose impressions align with your own, that's excellent.

Also, a suggestion/reminder that I started an impressions thread if anyone feels like posting their impressions there, so people who want to ignore the noise in this thread can just read impressions.

 

[MN8372]

Now this is interesting as my Utopia’s are out of action at the moment…and I also have a Studio 6.

Haven’t watched yet…

From memory - more “heft” with the LCD 5 and bigger soundstage with slightly darker treble.

More similar than you would think though - but that’s in comparison to the HEKSE (which was very different) and possibly also due to the Lazuli Reference cable I have for the Utopia which takes the edge off the treble and fills out the bass.

Going to watch the video now and compare notes..

 

[MN8372]

I’ve now watched Currawong’s video. Interesting comparison about detail retrieval. I wouldn’t have picked the LCD 5 was better than the Utopia in that respect but it shows how important it is to directly compare and not rely on memory (in my case the left driver of my Utopia died 3 months ago and we’ve been in strict lockdown here in Auckland for 3 months…)

I’ve already sent my HEKSE off to Hifiman (to be upgraded to the Susvara - a direct response to the LCD 5) and I‘m now wondering if my Utopia’s will survive when they are fixed! The LCD 5 really is the best bits of the HEKSE and Utopia combined. And then I may have the same issue with Susvara - but listening to different options is what this hobby is about. And the Susvara’s dont need to blow the LCD5 out the water so long as there is fine grained difference.

And then I watch Sajid’s excellent video comparing SR009S vs Susvara and I can’t help wondering what the new Stax would sound like out of a DIY T2 built by Miroslav…. And I say that when I can’t even afford an Abyss 1266 TC after my recent splurge which probably makes more sense than the Stax!

Well I could afford them but then I’m also into bikes (bicycles) and I quite fancy a Colnago C64 for Xmas which is NZD25K plus….

 

[curvz]

Now this is interesting as my Utopia’s are out of action at the moment…and I also have a Studio 6.

Haven’t watched yet…

From memory - more “heft” with the LCD 5 and bigger soundstage with slightly darker treble.

More similar than you would think though - but that’s in comparison to the HEKSE (which was very different) and possibly also due to the Lazuli Reference cable I have for the Utopia which takes the edge off the treble and fills out the bass.

Going to watch the video now and compare notes..

Thanks for posting! Can't wait to go home and listen to that comparison.

Strongly considering replacing my Utopia with an LCD-5. The main reasons I went for the Utopia last year and not the LCD-4 was the weight and because I felt it would likely replace my beloved (and then fairly new) LCD-3s. When I pay that much for a headphone, I want to be able to wear them all day and as much as I love my Audeze's, it just gets uncomfortable after a certain period.

Looks like the LCD-5 fixes those concerns for me, now if only they would have been a bit cheaper!

 

[KMann]

@Currawong Thanks for the comparison you made in the video. I wonder why the word 'transparency' is not used as much in reviews, which you indirectly alluded to when going from dynamic drivers to electrostats and planars with very thin diaphragm such as LCD-5. While tonality and clarity are only part of the equation when it comes to 'micro-detail', time resolution is what allows low mass drivers to provide a bigger window in to the music by allowing us to notice subtle changes and impart realism that we naturally and instinctively expect in sounds we hear in real life (because of physics involved) similar to how you described the shakers. It is not just tonal in nature but the nuances that can easily be mushed together in time if the driver is not nimble enough.

As someone who chases transparency, one of the advantages LCD-5 offers over competing headphones is the ability to to be driven directly out of high quality integrated Dac/Amps. I personally avoid adding an amp to my chain if I can, as it means additional interconnects additional amplification/elements, additional PSU all of them stack up and do reduce transparency just like additional elements in a high quality lens (as an analogy in photography). But to my ears LCD-5 driven direct out of Chord DAVE or TT2 is can be more transparent than a electrostatic setup that adds an amp to the chain. I am not saying everyone should abandon using amps, I am providing another point of view for those who may value transparency more and are willing to give up a little on other aspects that an amp can bring.

 

[All Day Breakfast]

@Currawong Thanks for the comparison you made in the video. I wonder why the word 'transparency' is not used as much in reviews, which you indirectly alluded to when going from dynamic drivers to electrostats and planars with very thin diaphragm such as LCD-5. While tonality and clarity are only part of the equation when it comes to 'micro-detail', time resolution is what allows low mass drivers to provide a bigger window in to the music by allowing us to notice subtle changes and impart realism that we naturally and instinctively expect in sounds we hear in real life (because of physics involved) similar to how you described the shakers. It is not just tonal in nature but the nuances that can easily be mushed together in time if the driver is not nimble enough.

As someone who chases transparency, one of the advantages LCD-5 offers over competing headphones is the ability to to be driven directly out of high quality integrated Dac/Amps. I personally avoid adding an amp to my chain if I can, as it means additional interconnects additional amplification/elements, additional PSU all of them stack up and do reduce transparency just like additional elements in a high quality lens (as an analogy in photography). But to my ears LCD-5 driven direct out of Chord DAVE or TT2 is can be more transparent than a electrostatic setup that adds an amp to the chain. I am not saying everyone should abandon using amps, I am providing another point of view for those who may value transparency more and are willing to give up a little on other aspects that an amp can bring.

Your mention earlier of the Chord DAVE which I already have is one of the main reasons I ordered LCD5s. What you say here is very much in line with what Rob Watts says about time resolution and keeping the chain as simple as possible. Also thanks for your many comments here at Head-Fi about the LCD5 which were helpful in convincing me to order a pair (and your earlier comments about the LCDi4 which I’ve owned for a few years).

 

[Xcalibur255]

I suspect the pads are softening a bit. I noticed that the FR can shift suddenly sometimes with movement, and the position on my head makes a big difference. Since pad softening is a well-known source of FR changes in headphones, this may well be worth considering as a possible cause of some of these "burn-in" changes.

This is an excellent point about the pads, both the physical distance to ear changing as they soften and their alignment to the ear canal depending upon positioning on the head. The latter is a source of endless OCD for me personally because I've found that all headphones and planars in particular just seem to sound wrong tonally unless they're sitting on my head in a very specific way. The headphones that are more seal dependant seem to suffer from this effect even more severely I've found. I've often wondered if this is part of the reason why opinions on some of the DCA stuff, especially the original Ether, are so polarizing. I can put the Ether on my head and they will sound so bad you'd think they are broken, then pick them up and shift them around and they'll sound fine.

The repeatability gets better with practice but it feels like it will always be a variable that isn't entirely controllable and that kind of bothers me.

 

[Chianti]

@Currawong Thanks for the comparison you made in the video. I wonder why the word 'transparency' is not used as much in reviews, which you indirectly alluded to when going from dynamic drivers to electrostats and planars with very thin diaphragm such as LCD-5. While tonality and clarity are only part of the equation when it comes to 'micro-detail', time resolution is what allows low mass drivers to provide a bigger window in to the music by allowing us to notice subtle changes and impart realism that we naturally and instinctively expect in sounds we hear in real life (because of physics involved) similar to how you described the shakers. It is not just tonal in nature but the nuances that can easily be mushed together in time if the driver is not nimble enough.

As someone who chases transparency, one of the advantages LCD-5 offers over competing headphones is the ability to to be driven directly out of high quality integrated Dac/Amps. I personally avoid adding an amp to my chain if I can, as it means additional interconnects additional amplification/elements, additional PSU all of them stack up and do reduce transparency just like additional elements in a high quality lens (as an analogy in photography). But to my ears LCD-5 driven direct out of Chord DAVE or TT2 is can be more transparent than a electrostatic setup that adds an amp to the chain. I am not saying everyone should abandon using amps, I am providing another point of view for those who may value transparency more and are willing to give up a little on other aspects that an amp can bring.

Do you mean "speed" in the first paragraph, and possibly "loss of fidelity" in the second? I would only call the latter perhaps transparency (in the sense of the mythical wire with gain analogy). The field of TOTL headphones regarding "speed" is not easy to generalize, gets even harder when including IEMs (I perceive my Tia Fourte Noir and Shure KSE1500 to be quite nimble ...). It would be interesting to hear more about your first hand experience comparing e.g. LCD-5 vs. CRBN? To keep things "in the family" and avoid appearance of commercial bias (e.g. trickier to have a conversation LCD-5 vs. Raal SR1a and not become distracted by such considerations)?

 

[xtr4]

Day two (technically hour number 2 hahah):

There's still a bit of a "hotspot" at the top but overall clamp isn't as obtrusive as the first time, much like my experience with the Solitaire P-SE headband.
Oh, forgot to mention that I'm also wearing glasses and it doesn't affect the comfort of the headphones.

I'm only listening to Katie Melua for this session to better grasp what I've heard with female vocals yesterday. I mentioned a kinda veil and it's still kinda there but it's more like an envelope or pocket so to speak. This encapsulation has a sort of effect similar to that of covering your ears when listening to speakers or covering the ports of open back headphones. Muffled sort of masking but doesn't affect the voicing of the female vocals. It's subtle.