[jelt2359]

Clearly we're at an impasse here, because I do not think the Milo is colored. In your defense, I haven't hear it with the LCD-4... nor have you heard it with my gear, which is to say this conversation has surpassed the point of usefulness. I think we could probably continue to go around in circles on this forever, so I'll save you the trouble and show myself out of it. I'm sure your $20,000 systems is better than my humble $2,500 kit.

I think everyone has a different definition of coloured. In fact I think most of my gear is coloured. The Studio is probably the least so since it emphasises transparency and detail above all, with great soundstaging. My Dave is the same, which is why I like that specific combination so much. But even then this pair is sometimes too bright. The First Watt F7 is another good example, balanced all around and musical, but bass probably ticked up a small notch north of neutral. Fits my subjective preferences a lot, though. Almost everything else I have heard is coloured too, just to different degrees. To me the Milos and V281 fall into the same "camp", prizing musicality and a tubey-like flow over objective honesty. The DAC19, which I owned for a few years, is warm and lush.

Ultimately, these components can still sound very nice, but pairing the Milos with the Dave, as the dealer did, afforded me a unique opportunity to head just exactly what the Milos was doing to the signal from the Dave. Paired with a less transparent or detailed DAC, this would probably not be an issue.

So I expect you to be perfectly happy with the DAC19 and Milos (from my experience with the former, not because of price point). I expect that combination to be lush, smooth, warm, and highly musical. Certainly enjoyable. But the OP may find himself bottlenecked by one of another of these components should he start moving upwards, which was what I found when it was paired with the Dave- which btw was the dealer's choice of pairing, not mine!

 

[Hansotek]

I think everyone has a different definition of coloured. In fact I think most of my gear is coloured. The Studio is probably the least so since it emphasises transparency and detail above all, with great soundstaging. My Dave is the same, which is why I like that specific combination so much. But even then this pair is sometimes too bright. The First Watt F7 is another good example, balanced all around and musical, but bass probably ticked up a small notch north of neutral. Fits my subjective preferences a lot, though. Almost everything else I have heard is coloured too, just to different degrees. To me the Milos and V281 fall into the same "camp", prizing musicality and a tubey-like flow over objective honesty. The DAC19, which I owned for a few years, is warm and lush.

Ultimately, these components can still sound very nice, but pairing the Milos with the Dave, as the dealer did, afforded me a unique opportunity to head just exactly what the Milos was doing to the signal from the Dave. Paired with a less transparent or detailed DAC, this would probably not be an issue.

So I expect you to be perfectly happy with the DAC19 and Milos (from my experience with the former, not because of price point). I expect that combination to be lush, smooth, warm, and highly musical. Certainly enjoyable. But the OP may find himself bottlenecked by one of another of these components should he start moving upwards, which was what I found when it was paired with the Dave- which btw was the dealer's choice of pairing, not mine!

That's a fair answer, but again I question whether there was something else going on with that setup, because (to me) the Milo sounds very solid state and absolutely the polar opposite of the V281, which to my ears is very dark and gooey, and lacks the air and dynamic freedom I get from the Milo. I know a lot of people love that amp, it's just not my cup o' tea.

Also, what dealer even had a Milo for a demo? I'm pretty sure they are all made-to-order. Are you absolutely sure you're not confusing it with another amp? I mean no offense, it is a legitimate question because none of this adds up. When a dude who is as deep in the tube game as you calls the Milo "tubey", I have to wonder if there hasn't been some sort of mixup.

Edit: NVM that last paragraph - I see you guys had a meet recently over in the Milo thread. I still don't understand the "tubey" part, but that's fine. We might just have different definitions of what makes something sound "tubey", I guess.

 

[ohhgourami]

That's a fair answer, but again I question whether there was something else going on with that setup, because (to me) the Milo sounds very solid state and absolutely the polar opposite of the V281, which to my ears is very dark and gooey, and lacks the air and dynamic freedom I get from the Milo. I know a lot of people love that amp, it's just not my cup o' tea.

Also, what dealer even had a Milo for a demo? I'm pretty sure they are all made-to-order. Are you absolutely sure you're not confusing it with another amp? I mean no offense, it is a legitimate question because none of this adds up. When a dude who is as deep in the tube game as you calls the Milo "tubey", I have to wonder if there hasn't been some sort of mixup.

I heard the Milo at the Wells Audio table with my own HE-6. That amp was probably the most gooey thing I've ever heard. Seriously sounded like you got drowned in tar while listening. I can see how people could enjoy it if they have never heard reference grade gear, but the amount of coloration and details omitted can't be ignored.

 

[Moochibond]

  I just bought a Rega Brio-R for my HE-6. When I recieve it, I will post my impressions. It's an integrated with a relatively small footprint: 22cm wide and 32cm deep (and 8cm high).
 

 

(Edit: added photo)

 

[Hansotek]

I heard the Milo at the Wells Audio table with my own HE-6. That amp was probably the most gooey thing I've ever heard. Seriously sounded like you got drowned in tar while listening. I can see how people could enjoy it if they have never heard reference grade gear, but the amount of coloration and details omitted can't be ignored.

That makes zero sense.

 

[Clemmaster]

I depends on the listener's own tar level.

 

[LarsHP]

This amplifier speaks body language:
 

 
I got the Rega Brio-R amp yesterday: It makes my legs move and eyes blink!
 
In other words, if rock, pop, funk, R&B etc. is your primary musical diet, this amp should certainly be considered. Especially if you want a desktop friendly amp for HE-6, since it's a half size speaker amp (22cm wide and 32cm deep). In fact, it's more the size of a high quality headphone amp than a ditto speaker amp.
 
To be more precise regarding sound, drums are extremely well reproduced. The attack, punch and slam, the dynamics and low end, is definitely the strong point of this amplifier. If anything there is a little more sub bass amount rather than less. I don't find the mids to be beefed up with an overly warm tone (extra amount of low mids / upper bass), but having a rather balanced tonality. I remember the Anthem 225 had extra bass and lowest mids, but yet a lean mid-range making an odd tonality. Not here.
 
Headstage (soundstage) is definitely smaller than what I am used to. Music seems to be much closer to my ears and head even though pin-pointed sounds do sound pin-pointed; they are just not perceived as far away as expected. Another way of saying this is that there is less depth in the rending of larger sound scenes. Transparency is very good, so it seems not a veil causing this. Close sounds appear very close.
 
These two features of the amp conveys a certain immediacy in the rendering of the music. Pace Rhythm and Timing (PRaT) is probably the thing here...
 
The upper mids might have a slight dryness to it, but treble seems fine to me. However, the treble quality of HE-6 is just wonderful, so with a dry sounding headphone (like HD800 or TH900) the upper frequencies might in fact be dry sounding. This will in other words be dependent on the headphone or speaker used (as always).

 
I wouldn't recommend this amp for lovers of chamber, classical and choir music because of the limited depth and the strong points of the amp being less important to these genres, while the qualities in the upper frequency range may be the weak point.
 
These are my first impressions and not the "final verdict".

 

[Rodeodave]

I'm currently building an amp to drive my HE-6 headphones, and I have a tough choice to make.

The design is fully balanced, JFET input and MOSFET output (diy Aleph X). I have to decide what rail voltage to use, which directly influences output power. The design allows each output to swing within 5V to the rails without distorting, and I have to choose between +/-20V unregulated or +/-15V regulated rails. Unregulated would comprise a CRC PSU with 0.4F filtering (that's not a typo), regulated would comprise a series FET regulator (capacitance multiplier) in place of the R.

+/-15V rails would allow for 20V peaks across the driver, translating to P=U*I=U^2/R=400/50=8W peak power and P_rms=U_rms^2/R=(U*1/sq2)^2/R=1/2*U^2/R=4W RMS power, both into 50 Ohm (the equivalent of 50W peak and 25W RMS into 8 Ohm).

+/-20V rails would allow for 30V peaks across the driver, translating to P=U*I=U^2/R=900/50=18W peak power and P_rms=U_rms^2/R=(U*1/sq2)^2/R=1/2*U^2/R=9W RMS power, again both into a 50 Ohm load (the equivalent of 112.5W peak and 56.25W into 8 Ohm).


I believe the regulated supply would sound more crisp and the amp would possibly retrieve more detail. The unregulated supply would leave more headroom on the other hand...

Thoughts?

 

[LarsHP]

I am far from being able to comment on technicalities, but my experience with amps in general - and HE-6 in particular - is that quality is much more important than power.
 
For reference I had the Leben CS300 (a 12W tube speaker amp, 2W in 50 Ohms) and it had no problems regarding power / loudness / bass amount. Same with Burson Soloist (1.7W in 50 Ohms).
 
In my opinion the idea that HE-6 is something extraordinary regarding power requirements (look at the thread title) is partly wrong. Yes, HE-6 needs much more power than "normal" headphones and for this reason it is extraordinary. However, many people have used amps that "on paper" should drive it without issues, but found it lacking bass and sounding thin. I hear a nice tonality directly driven by the built-in Balanced amp card of the HiFiMan HM910s which of course is power limited and won't make HE-6 play loud, but within it's limits, it actually sounds balanced. More bass than a 5W (in 50 Ohm) DIY headphone amp I have.
 
My point is that all amps have some kind of character, and those who have that extra sub bass amount are being praised for being "able to drive the HE-6". Those who have an emphasis in the upper frequencies will be called "unable". This is my experience and opinion.

 

[LarsHP]

... and then we can add, that much of the debate about HE-6 sounding thin or light is overall fixed by modifications - particulary by changing pads. (Most people in this and the big HE-6 thread has done this.) The stock pads - especially the ones that came with HE-6 originally - didn't seal properly and were quite large. The next generation (now called the old pads) were better, but still not very good. With Audeze micro suede (vegan) pads, Brainwavz HM5 pads etc., bass is much more prominent. This means the tonal balance is corrected considerably compared to stock condition. So, the thin bass is gone more or less completely just by changing pads and gluing/taping them to the cup. Better amp is still better though ...

 

[jelt2359]

I'm currently building an amp to drive my HE-6 headphones, and I have a tough choice to make.

The design is fully balanced, JFET input and MOSFET output (diy Aleph X). I have to decide what rail voltage to use, which directly influences output power. The design allows each output to swing within 5V to the rails without distorting, and I have to choose between +/-20V unregulated or +/-15V regulated rails. Unregulated would comprise a CRC PSU with 0.4F filtering (that's not a typo), regulated would comprise a series FET regulator (capacitance multiplier) in place of the R.

+/-15V rails would allow for 20V peaks across the driver, translating to P=U*I=U^2/R=400/50=8W peak power and P_rms=U_rms^2/R=(U*1/sq2)^2/R=1/2*U^2/R=4W RMS power, both into 50 Ohm (the equivalent of 50W peak and 25W RMS into 8 Ohm).

+/-20V rails would allow for 30V peaks across the driver, translating to P=U*I=U^2/R=900/50=18W peak power and P_rms=U_rms^2/R=(U*1/sq2)^2/R=1/2*U^2/R=9W RMS power, again both into a 50 Ohm load (the equivalent of 112.5W peak and 56.25W into 8 Ohm).


I believe the regulated supply would sound more crisp and the amp would possibly retrieve more detail. The unregulated supply would leave more headroom on the other hand...

Thoughts?

15V should be okay- but it also depends on your source. My F7 goes to 30W RMS into 8ohms and as far as I'm concerned has the perfect gain (not too much, not too little) with a HE6, with about 10-15db of free headroom with my Chord Dave.

 

[posedown]

Hello,
 
can the Shiit Jotunheim (Balanced Output) drive the HE-6?
 
Thank you.

 

[Fearless1]

It will power them, but far from the best option, I would choose an entry level speaker amp over the Jot with the 6.

 

[cskippy]

In my experience, it wasn't that far behind my Spec 2 power amp.  Plus ease of use, and worry free listening make it a whole lot easier for me with Jot, balanced from Freya/Gumby.  
 
I'm not discounting speaker amps, I plan on getting either a First Watt or AHB2 down the line.  

 

[Happy Camper]

Have you already bought the Schit.