[gonzalo1004es]

I've been wondering the following, and maybe someone knows the technicalities, as I don't: for a giving amplifier, if I'm using a DAC with a balanced connection which outputs at +18dBU (around 6.2V, compared to the usual 2V), how does this output change translate into the actual power needed for the amplifier to drive the HE-6?

 

[bigkef]

Hello Fellow HE'6 ers!! 
 
Last night I took delivery of an absolutely MINT Marantz PM500 to drive my HE'6 headphones at the speaker taps...  The results were truly impressive...  For only $150 bucks I have a piece of headphone equipment that I'm sure would dwarfs anything that I have heard to date in the headamp world.  Since this beautiful machine has fast-twitch "led" meters to show wattage consumption, now I KNOW why..  I only played for apx 1 hour and ran thru some of my favorites (Anita Baker, Jill Scott, Marvin Gaye) at decent volumes (ok loud, prob 100 db).  What amazed me was the fact this headphone PEGGED 130w (@4 ohm) meter on several tracks and I know the HE'6 could have handed more.  I have pics to prove!  While I couldn't get a pic during an actual, instantaneous PEG, I was able to get several pics of meters on their way back from a 130w excursion!!  Mind you this headphone sounded PHENOMENAL during the entire session. -Sounds like a freakin SPEAKER!!  -Clear as a bell, NO distortion could be heard upstairs in my house...  I will work on posting pick later today, but I was actually skeptical about 100+ watt "ghost" stories about HE6 I read a while back until I saw for myself.  I'm gonna be sure and get a second pair because I still don't think a better headphone exists today..      

 

[1974]

  Hello Fellow HE'6 ers!! 
 
Last night I took delivery of an absolutely MINT Marantz PM500 to drive my HE'6 headphones at the speaker taps.

 
Nice score! How's the noise floor when music isn't playing?

 

[punit]

  Hello Fellow HE'6 ers!! 
 
Last night I took delivery of an absolutely MINT Marantz PM500 to drive my HE'6 headphones at the speaker taps...  The results were truly impressive...  For only $150 bucks I have a piece of headphone equipment that I'm sure would dwarfs anything that I have heard to date in the headamp world.  Since this beautiful machine has fast-twitch "led" meters to show wattage consumption, now I KNOW why..  I only played for apx 1 hour and ran thru some of my favorites (Anita Baker, Jill Scott, Marvin Gaye) at decent volumes (ok loud, prob 100 db).  What amazed me was the fact this headphone PEGGED 130w (@4 ohm) meter on several tracks and I know the HE'6 could have handed more.  I have pics to prove!  While I couldn't get a pic during an actual, instantaneous PEG, I was able to get several pics of meters on their way back from a 130w excursion!!  Mind you this headphone sounded PHENOMENAL during the entire session. -Sounds like a freakin SPEAKER!!  -Clear as a bell, NO distortion could be heard upstairs in my house...  I will work on posting pick later today, but I was actually skeptical about 100+ watt "ghost" stories about HE6 I read a while back until I saw for myself.  I'm gonna be sure and get a second pair because I still don't think a better headphone exists today..      

I also run my HE 6 from the speaker taps of a Marantz PM500. The power level meters stay at 1.5 W @ 8 ohms (or 3 W @ 4 ohms) during my listening sessions. So I don't understand when you say the above highlighted statement ? My volume knob stays @ around 8 o'clock, are you saying that your volume know goes to 5 o'clock

but that will blow the drivers.

 

[GUTB]

Right now I'm driving them off of the speaker taps from a Pioneer VSX-816. Just a stop gap for now, sound quality is pretty bad at volume. It's rated for 110wpc, and I find that -23 dB provides a good listening volume, and if I want to crank it for certain tracks, I will go to -17 dB. It goes from -100 to 0.
 
When I had the Mjolnir 2, which claims 5 watts into 50 Ohms, turning the pot to maximum would result in almost a listening volume (low gain).
 
So, it seems to me, the real power draw of the HE-6 is significantly above 5 watts.

 

[Armaegis]

  I've been wondering the following, and maybe someone knows the technicalities, as I don't: for a giving amplifier, if I'm using a DAC with a balanced connection which outputs at +18dBU (around 6.2V, compared to the usual 2V), how does this output change translate into the actual power needed for the amplifier to drive the HE-6?

 
No change. Feeding a higher source simply means you won't have to turn it up as high on the amp. Debatably you'll get a better signal/noise ratio with a higher source voltage, assuming this doesn't clip the input circuitry to the amp and it's running within its optimal range.
 
 

  Right now I'm driving them off of the speaker taps from a Pioneer VSX-816. Just a stop gap for now, sound quality is pretty bad at volume. It's rated for 110wpc, and I find that -23 dB provides a good listening volume, and if I want to crank it for certain tracks, I will go to -17 dB. It goes from -100 to 0.
 
When I had the Mjolnir 2, which claims 5 watts into 50 Ohms, turning the pot to maximum would result in almost a listening volume (low gain).
 
So, it seems to me, the real power draw of the HE-6 is significantly above 5 watts.

 
110W is probably the 8 ohm rating. Simple division brings that down to 17.6W for 50 ohms. For the sake of simplicity let's say you're listening at an average of -20dB. That's a voltage multiplier of 0.1, which is squared for power giving you 0.01*17.6W = 0.176W.

 

[gonzalo1004es]

   
No change. Feeding a higher source simply means you won't have to turn it up as high on the amp. Debatably you'll get a better signal/noise ratio with a higher source voltage, assuming this doesn't clip the input circuitry to the amp and it's running within its optimal range.
 
 
 

 
Thanks for the explanation! I just got the HE-6 and before connecting to a power amp, I decided to try first with my Bryston BHA-1 amplifier; I thought that I should probably have to turn the Bryston at almost full volume to listen to them, and to my surprise, using a DAC that outputs at +18dBu, I found that they sound very loud (and gorgeous, by the way) between 10 and 11 in the volume pot, meaning that there's no way to go louder, it is simply too loud (at least compared to my usual listening levels). That was quite a surprise as the Bryston should not be able to amp them properly, how can this be technically explained? I mean that if the BHA-1 should not be able to amp them with ease and the higher source should not create a big difference, what's going on exactly? I'm asking because the first thought (probably simplistic, and maybe easy to refute) is: why should I use a speaker amp if my headphone amp is apparenlty amplifying them easily?

 

[LarsHP]

Your Bryston is probably doing around 2W in 50 Ohms, which should be enough for normal listening levels and tracks. Actually HiFiMan says 2W is the recommended minimum power. I had the Burson Soloist for a while. It's about 1.7W in 50 Ohms and that was enough to my ears. No substantional difference between that and my Audio-gd Master 6 which is doing 7W.
 
The reason for using speaker amps is - in my opinion - that they are better value (especially in terms of getting high wattage) and there are so many out there on the used market too. In terms of sonics alone (cost no object) a top high end speaker amp might be better than a ditto headphone amp. This is of course debatable, but it seems like there is something to it.
 
My 50W class A speaker amp (8W in 50 Ohms) makes a tighter bass than the Master 6, but the latter has a fuller bass. In other words some of this is very subjective and depends on preference.

 

[Tobes]

  Hello Fellow HE'6 ers!! 
 
 What amazed me was the fact this headphone PEGGED 130w (@4 ohm) meter on several tracks and I know the HE'6 could have handed more.  I have pics to prove!  While I couldn't get a pic during an actual, instantaneous PEG, I was able to get several pics of meters on their way back from a 130w excursion!!       

Just remember that the amp won't be putting 130W into the 50ohm HE6 load - if it did, the headphone would surely be damaged.
Extrapolating 130W/4ohms gives 10.4W/50ohms - which is still a lot of power for the HE6, even for instantaneous peaks - that's assuming the meters on the PM500 provide an accurate indication.

 

[comzee]

  Just remember that the amp won't be putting 130W into the 50ohm HE6 load - if it did, the headphone would surely be damaged.
Extrapolating 130W/4ohms gives 10.4W/50ohms - which is still a lot of power for the HE6, even for instantaneous peaks - that's assuming the meters on the PM500 provide an accurate indication.

Hmm, using the same method, that means for the 300ohm HD800 that is 1.7w, pretty overkill. 
I actually saw one Marantz PM500 on Ebay after @bigkef mentioned it, scooped it up.
 
I'm going to run the taps out to a passive preamp, to my HD800, I'll see how it sounds.... 
At the least I'd have a decent speaker amp for the future  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

[Tobes]

I'm going to run the taps out to a passive preamp, to my HD800, I'll see how it sounds.... 
At the least I'd have a decent speaker amp for the future  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Hopefully you're not going to insert a passive pre (designed for line level voltages) between the poweramp output and the headphones.
That is likely to damage the passive.
FWIW I've connected my 300ohm HD600's directly to my speaker amp output (just to assess the sound) without issue - and it did sound better than my HF amp in certain ways. As always caution is required with the volume control.
Personally I don't think a speaker amp is appropriate for high impedance headphones like the Sennheisers - it's just the wrong tool for the job IMO.

 

[GUTB]

So guys, I'm putting together a list of items for the HE-6 endgame.
 
First of all, I want to make sure the amp is NOT the limiting factor. Options I've identified so far include:
 
Odyssey Audio Hybrid Integrated Kismet: http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-kismet-hybrid-int-amp.html
- Don't know the specs, but when I get to the buying stage I will of course ask for them. I trust though this will sound sublime with a tube pre stage built in.
- High end European-market components.
 
Odyssey Audio Startos Mono Extremes: http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-mono.html
- Two 400VA Plitrons per channel
- 360,000uf
- >800 damping factor (low output impedance)
 
Emotiva XPA-2 (aka: Value Option) https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-2
- 1,200VA transformer
- $720
 
Xindak A600P Dual Mono: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Xindak-A600P-post-amp-Dual-mono-design-Pure-Class-A-80W-Super-Power-Design-Xindak-A600/32347229338.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.124.e2LowX&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10005_10006_10021_10003_10004_10022_10018_10019,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_-1&btsid=c46333d4-595f-4c02-8094-820f0d4a840a
- Class A
- Gold-plated PCB
- 350,000uf custom caps
- 24 output devices
- 102 amps peak
- 130 lbs get wrekt
 
NAD M22: http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M22-Stereo-Power-Amplifier
- Based on Hypex, widely reported to sound better than NC400.
- Lots of power
 
Edit:
 
Forget muh JFET: http://www.firstwatt.com/j2.html
- JFET outputs
- Everyone agrees an awesome amp.

 

[bigkef]

Got Ya Tobes....

I guess what I am saying us that I got the volume knob up to about 1030

I also run my HE 6 from the speaker taps of a Marantz PM500. The power level meters stay at 1.5 W @ 8 ohms (or 3 W @ 4 ohms) during my listening sessions. So I don't understand when you say the above highlighted statement ? My volume knob stays @ around 8 o'clock, are you saying that your volume know goes to 5 o'clock :basshead: but that will blow the drivers.

 

[Keithpgdrb]

Hey, how many of you have modded your cans, or at least changed the pads?
 
also, I'm running the he6 out of a violectric right now, and its doing well.  one of the few headphone amps that are powerful enough.  jury is out on weather its better then my yamaha 2020.

 

[gonzalo1004es]

Your Bryston is probably doing around 2W in 50 Ohms, which should be enough for normal listening levels and tracks. Actually HiFiMan says 2W is the recommended minimum power. I had the Burson Soloist for a while. It's about 1.7W in 50 Ohms and that was enough to my ears. No substantional difference between that and my Audio-gd Master 6 which is doing 7W.

The reason for using speaker amps is - in my opinion - that they are better value (especially in terms of getting high wattage) and there are so many out there on the used market too. In terms of sonics alone (cost no object) a top high end speaker amp might be better than a ditto headphone amp. This is of course debatable, but it seems like there is something to it.

My 50W class A speaker amp (8W in 50 Ohms) makes a tighter bass than the Master 6, but the latter has a fuller bass. In other words some of this is very subjective and depends on preference.

Thanks! I'm still surprised that it sounds
so so much at 10