[gjc11028]

  anyone gone to the high end toob realm with the he-6 yet 

 ?

silent one uses nice shindo gear.  the tube preamp and hybrid amp i use probably count as high end.

 

[kothganesh]

  Hi Ganesh,
 
Long time, I've been meaning to pm you but extremely busy, sitting in another airport lounge now.  Check out this if you're looking for a passive pre, I've had some time with one and was extremely impressed, somewhere in feb I'm flying to the US and intend to pick one up, cheaper than having to deal with the import procedure.
 
http://www.tortugaaudio.com/new-preamps-pricing-holiday-year-end-specials/
 
Silent as hell (meaning the level of background noise).

Hi Werner:
 
Thanks for the link. Trust you've been doing well. Let me know when you are in my neck of the woods; would love to catch up and play host.
 
Cheers

 

[kothganesh]

  Hi Ganesh,
 
Long time, I've been meaning to pm you but extremely busy, sitting in another airport lounge now.  Check out this if you're looking for a passive pre, I've had some time with one and was extremely impressed, somewhere in feb I'm flying to the US and intend to pick one up, cheaper than having to deal with the import procedure.
 
http://www.tortugaaudio.com/new-preamps-pricing-holiday-year-end-specials/
 
Silent as hell (meaning the level of background noise).

Specifications look compelling. Which model would you suggest? 

 

[Xenophon]

 
Specifications look compelling. Which model would you suggest? 

If you run a balanced setup then the LDRxB makes a lot of sense, but carries a commensurate tag.  I'm getting the LDR3 V2 but check out the forum connected to the site,there you'll find options of actual owners, I just played with it for a while (but as I said, I liked what I heard or rather, what I didn't hear).  Thought about purchasing the kit but have too much other stuff to finish and I don't think many hotels will be thrilled if I start soldering in the room.

 

[grokit]

 

   so its confirmed the he6 plays well with the first watt F1J right?  even if  the wattage is low which I believe is 10 watts at 8 ohms ?

Confirmed by two F1J owners and one F1 owner.

F1J specs are confusing, it says 10 watts at 8 ohms, 7 watts at 4 ohms, but it actually has a 60 ohm output

 
 

. cool. I was able to get one from the classifieds here.

Nice find

 

 

[Xenophon]

  F1J specs are confusing, it says 10 watts at 8 ohms, 7 watts at 4 ohms, but it actually has a 60 ohm output

 
 
Nice find

 

Yes, it's a transconductance amplifier, input voltage controls current output, different principle from most other amps.  The 60R output resistance is required for it to work within specs.  Iirc with a 16R load it delivers 9W.
 
As the documentation says, it's a niche product that will not play well with 98% of speakers (crossover etc is totally different)...but it's glorious with the HE-6. 

 

[shayson1357]

maybe because planars don't really care about output impedance as much as regular drivers 

 

[preproman]

You'll be surprised how good the F1J pairs with the HD800 as well.

 

[Happy Camper]

Pre, I thought your old 800s sounded great on my Rotels. Many headphones play very well with speaker amps.

 

[Justin_Time]

 
HiFiMan didn't do themselves any favours with the EF-6. Big, bulky and nasty sounding. Not a good amp for the money - and only 5W output, barely more than my Taurus and still not enough for the HE6 IMHO.
 
I'm learning to put a lot more faith in the HeadFi regulars. Best of all is the chance to demo something, but that cannot always be practical, particularly in my part of the planet.

 


I second the assessment of the EF-6. I too was sorely disappointed by the sound of the EF-6, though I found the power more than adequate, if not generous--I listen mostly at a moderately high level.

An interesting experiment: I used the Sophia Electric Magik Box between the transport/DAC (PS Audio PerfectWave Mk2 or Oppo 105) and the EF-6 and, lo and behold, the mid-range became more liquid and the nasty treble became more musical, almost sweet--slower decay?

Of course, I clearly see the absurdity of using a $2900 device to improve the sound of a so-so $1,600 SS amp--buying the Woo WA5 would be a simpler and better option in my opinion--but I just thought that the outcome was eye-(ear?)opening.

 

[Justin_Time]

5watt into 50ohm (real nominal figures) is enough if the amp is well designed and built purposeful (for a phone like the he6) with large enough quality powersupply and with high quality internals..no need for multi 100watts of power...but its not bad also....and most of the times a light (in watts) quality speaker amp is by far the best affordable choice to drive a he6 well.

 


I FULLY CONCUR WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT,

Too often, owners of the HE-6 become obsessed with more power to feed the hungry beast.

While I agree that the HE-6 needs--no, demands--a lot of power, we should not forget that these are high-resolution headphones that also require very high-quality amps to sound their best.

As Nelson Pass and Dick Olsher made abundantly clear decades ago, the quality of the first watt--OK, the first few watts for the HE-6--is crucial. The point was driven home with the following statement (and I paraphrase): I don't care what the amp sounds like at 500 watts, if it sounds like crap at the first watt.

My experience with the HE-6 tends to support that statement.

The best sound I heard through the HE-6 was with excellent tube headphone amps with moderate powers (less than 10 watts into 50 ohms) like the Woo WA5 (K1K output), and great SS amps like the HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 or the Bakoon HPA-21--though this latter could use a beefier power supply.

I also had good results with moderately-powered (vintage) but well-designed speaker amps such the Pass Aleph 2 (SS 100-watt, Class-A), and Conrad-Johson MV75 (Tube, 75-watt), all loaded to 8 ohms across the speaker binding posts.

A higher-powered SS speaker amps I tried successfully was the Threshold Stasis S300 (150 watts x 2), which operated mostly in class A thanks to Nelson Pass's sliding-bias trick. Surprisingly the mass-produced Harman Kardon HK775 (SS 135-watt monoblocks) using Dr. Matti Otala superb designs, also fared very well with the HE-6. This latter amp can be had for a song--OK, for less than $200 hundred dollars on ebay. Replace the electrolytic caps, a few resistors in the hot pre-driver/driver areas and fix a few solder joints, and you are good to go for another 25 years if you do not have a bias drift, a notorious problem with the HK 775.

Generally, I had much better results with moderately-powered tube amps and class-A speaker amps (~ 25-100 watts) than with highly-powered class AB speaker amps with several hundred watts of power.

In a nut shell, the quality of the sound of the amp at a few watts is just as important as its power reserve. It is best to have both for the HE-6.

 

[TonyNewman]

...
Generally, I had much better results with moderately-powered tube amps and class-A speaker amps (~ 25-100 watts) than with highly-powered class AB speaker amps with several hundred watts of power.
...

 
 

I use a WA5 to drive my HE6 via the K1K output and am very happy with the results - doesn't appear to lack anything with the 8W output. The WA5 also seems to be able to swing plenty of current/voltage to feed the HE6 when it needs it (my guess is that those huge transformers help with this - but I don't know).

 
My question is for anyone who has heard the HE6 from the WA5 (8W) and from speaker amps (20W+):
 
Does the extra wattage from a speaker amp give the HE6 something that the WA5 can't?
 
Really curious about this as I want to get the best I can out of my HE6. I'm hoping that my WA5 gets me there (or very close to it)

 

[shayson1357]

Wattage isn't everything you know, pretty sure a viva egoista or anything from the WAVAC line(from the top of my head) would beat 99% of all macho-watt SS power amplifiers(passlab's upper shelf offerings among a few others being notable exceptions).... BUT, we're talking mega dollar boutique amplification here.... these babies aren't toys 

 .
would that small contribution to the overall sound(since amps aren't everything here) justify their order-of-magnitude higher price ? I'm tempted to say "it depends on how much you value that extra little bit more" but looking back at our situation I get the feeling that it's just not right to spend 10 times the price of the transducer on amplification for it. In my opinion, I'd say 6-7k should be the max one should go for headphone amps(in Tony's case that would be a wa5 with parts upgrade,nice NOS 6sn7's and Elrog's new 300Bs or ELM/KR/takatsuki/Psvane replicas if you want a bit less than the best 300B 

 )

 

[TonyNewman]

  ...I'd say 6-7k should be the max one should go for headphone amps(in Tony's case that would be a wa5 with parts upgrade,nice NOS 6sn7's and Elrog's new 300Bs or ELM/KR/takatsuki/Psvane replicas if you want a bit less than the best 300B 

 )

 
That's pretty much where I am at. My WA5 is stock, but my tubes are anything but. Not quite at the Elrog / Takatsuki / Vintage WE300B level - but one step below that.
 
I am starting to see the WA5 as less of an amp and more of a tube platform. It scales beautifully with the better tubes - what you get out of it is directly related to the tubes you put in it.
 
My question is driven by curiosity - I am very happy with what the WA5 delivers to the HE6 via the K1K port - I want to know if the speaker amp rigs with lots of watts deliver something that the WA5 can't. Can the HE6 be driven to a level beyond what the WA5 is capable of by a speaker amp?  At least one enquiring mind wants to know

 
Looking for some opinions from folks that have tried both with a modded HE6 and can shed some light on this.

 

[Justin_Time]

   
 

I use a WA5 to drive my HE6 via the K1K output and am very happy with the results - doesn't appear to lack anything with the 8W output. The WA5 also seems to be able to swing plenty of current/voltage to feed the HE6 when it needs it (my guess is that those huge transformers help with this - but I don't know).

 
My question is for anyone who has heard the HE6 from the WA5 (8W) and from speaker amps (20W+):
 
Does the extra wattage from a speaker amp give the HE6 something that the WA5 can't?
 
Really curious about this as I want to get the best I can out of my HE6. I'm hoping that my WA5 gets me there (or very close to it)

If your listening habit is similar to mine--I listen to pop, jazz and classical music at a moderate to moderately high volume with occasional excursion into the ear-bleeding level--you are 99% there with the WA5 and the K1K output.
 
In terms of musicality across the audible range (clarity, focus, microdynamics, smooth midrange, sweet high and realistic soundstage--for headphones, that is) it is tough to beat the WA5/HE-6 combo.
 
On rare occasions when I need the ultimate bass slam--i.e. macrodynamics--I use a class-A SS amp with a huge power supply like the SS Pass Aleph 2 (100 watts x 2 of pure class A into 8 ohms) or the SS Stasis S300 (150 watts x 2 of mostly class-A power into 8 ohms) or a moderately powered tube amp like the Conrad-Johnson MV75 or or the BAT VK75SE (75 watts x 2 into 8 ohms ). That usually does the trick for me, but in terms of sound quality overall and microdynamics, I cannot hear much improvement over the WA5, if any.  I happen to own these amps for my speaker system, but if I didn't, I would not go out of my way to buy them just for the HE-6.
 
Most mid-fi class-AB speaker amps (250-500 watts) with a plethora of inexpensive parts on the signal path, huge negative feedbacks and puny power supplies are a detriment rather than a benefit to the sound of the HE-6 in my experience.  It is not just the quantity, but also the quality of the power that counts for me. Folks with sonic preference dissimilar to mine may arrive at a totally opposite conclusion.
 
PS:  for HE-6 owners on a practical budget, the Sophia Electric Baby (tube) Amplifier is not a bad option at all.  With upgraded caps, which I recommend, the total damage goes up from $700 to $900.  You can make your own resistor arrays to put 8 ohms across each pair of speaker outputs and hook up an XLR adaptor to play the HE-6 very loud with a darn good sound.  It ain't the WA5 but it is highly listenable and the $4,000 still in your wallet will put a grin on your face.