[szanella]

Adding some flavor to the discussion:
 
What about the NFB-6 (amp) + NFB-17 (DAC) combo vs Schiit Lyr + Bifrost vs. NFB-10SE?

 

[drez]

I think a couple of people have foudn the mids with HE-500 a bit dry/artificial with the NFB-10 SE, and others have found they prefer to use the O2 amplifier, so unfortunately it seems the perceived brightness can be a problem for quite a few people.  A couple of poeple that compared NFB-10 to Lyr/Bifrost with HE-500 preferred the Lyr/Bifrost combinatoin, so MIO the NFB-10 SE is quite a divisive piece of gear as half the people love it, and half find the upper mids glarey, so its a bit of a risk whether or not whit will bother you.  I found it subjectively removed some of the "veil."  If you have tried slightly bright gear before and not minded the sound I guess it might be OK but if you are completely avers to brightness then it might be better to stay away and go for the Schiit gear, which errs on the smooth side of neutral and allows for tube rolling.
 
As you can see I am having a hard time not selling the NFB-10 short while warning about the potential brightness problems

  Schiit gear should be a safer bet. 

 

[darren700]

Quote:

I think a couple of people have foudn the mids with HE-500 a bit dry/artificial with the NFB-10 SE, and others have found they prefer to use the O2 amplifier, so unfortunately it seems the perceived brightness can be a problem for quite a few people.  A couple of poeple that compared NFB-10 to Lyr/Bifrost with HE-500 preferred the Lyr/Bifrost combinatoin, so MIO the NFB-10 SE is quite a divisive piece of gear as half the people love it, and half find the upper mids glarey, so its a bit of a risk whether or not whit will bother you.  I found it subjectively removed some of the "veil."  If you have tried slightly bright gear before and not minded the sound I guess it might be OK but if you are completely avers to brightness then it might be better to stay away and go for the Schiit gear, which errs on the smooth side of neutral and allows for tube rolling.
 
As you can see I am having a hard time not selling the NFB-10 short while warning about the potential brightness problems

  Schiit gear should be a safer bet. 

This, completly how i feel about the NFB-10SE.
 
I sold my NFB-10SE because i just plain did not like the sound of the amp; way too bright for me, made rock and metal un-listenable with the LCD2v2 IMO, however the DAC section was great.
 
The Objective 2 Sounds way better in my opinion. I will defiantly be getting the Objective Desktop Amp when it is released.
 
I have also preordered a Audiolab MDAC, which supposedly has a headphone out the competes with the Betta22 (see here).
I am interested to see how the amp in the MDAC compares with the O2.
 
I would consider the Audio-GD NFB-6 as well but im too afraid it will sound alot like the NFB-10SE and i wont like it, as King-wa describes it as like the NFB-10SE with analog inputs. However it does sport a pretty beefy power supply and is Class A which the NFB-10SE is not.
 

 

[drez]

AGD have a bunch of new products coming out, including a new budget balanced amplifier only based on Master 6.  Power output is down, and it looks like class-A biasing is used.  Hopefully it won't be so bright

 
 
MDAC looks promising, especially if it can compete with B-22!
 

 

[dagothur]

Quote:

This, completly how i feel about the NFB-10SE.
 
I sold my NFB-10SE because i just plain did not like the sound of the amp; way too bright for me, made rock and metal un-listenable with the LCD2v2 IMO, however the DAC section was great. 

One of the pitfalls and strengths of the NFB is that it's very revealing.  If your recording is poor, the NFB will punish your ears for it.  Generally, rock and metal don't have the best recording/mastering quality and the unit let's you know that very plainly.  However, if you can manage to get 320 or FLAC I've found the NFB adds some brilliant texturing and instrument separation to metal.

 
 

 

[darren700]

Quote:

One of the pitfalls and strengths of the NFB is that it's very revealing.  If your recording is poor, the NFB will punish your ears for it.  Generally, rock and metal don't have the best recording/mastering quality and the unit let's you know that very plainly.  However, if you can manage to get 320 or FLAC I've found the NFB adds some brilliant texturing and instrument separation to metal.

 
 

 
I was using all FLAC music. no low quality MP3's here.
I do agree about the NFB-10SE being very revealing, but that doesnt explain why the O2 sounds so much better to me (YMMV) as its suppose to be a very neutral and transparent amp.
 
 

 

[dagothur]

Quote:

 
I was using all FLAC music. no low quality MP3's here.
I do agree about the NFB-10SE being very revealing, but that doesnt explain why the O2 sounds so much better to me (YMMV) as its suppose to be a very neutral and transparent amp.
 
 

Even if you have Death Magnetic in FLAC, the mastering quality was poor.  I've not heard the O2 - although I should in the next few days - so  I can't say which is superior.  But I would say the NFB might not be your taste because it's not really neutral.  It's slightly bright, and sometimes even sibilant when the recording itself is already edgy or bright.  Generally I've found that if the recording is generally meant for a Grado-type signature, the NFB will make it seem harsher than a more laid-back unit might.  The only problem I've had with this quality was my 192 kbps recording of Resolution by Lamb of God.  I find the transparency and instrument separation from the NFB vastly improves metal recordings, especially with death and thrash metal.  I guess I will have a better perspective when I hear the O2.

 
 

 

[szanella]

Quote:

I think a couple of people have foudn the mids with HE-500 a bit dry/artificial with the NFB-10 SE, and others have found they prefer to use the O2 amplifier, so unfortunately it seems the perceived brightness can be a problem for quite a few people.  A couple of poeple that compared NFB-10 to Lyr/Bifrost with HE-500 preferred the Lyr/Bifrost combinatoin, so MIO the NFB-10 SE is quite a divisive piece of gear as half the people love it, and half find the upper mids glarey, so its a bit of a risk whether or not whit will bother you.  I found it subjectively removed some of the "veil."  If you have tried slightly bright gear before and not minded the sound I guess it might be OK but if you are completely avers to brightness then it might be better to stay away and go for the Schiit gear, which errs on the smooth side of neutral and allows for tube rolling.
 
As you can see I am having a hard time not selling the NFB-10 short while warning about the potential brightness problems

  Schiit gear should be a safer bet. 

 
Hey Drez, thanks a lot!
 
I'm going through a extensive learning period, in which I basically want to try every kind of sound there is.
Seems like a bright source that could be very revealing would be something nice for a change!
 
Although, I do enjoy darker sounds, so I'm still unsure about which way to go.
My HE-500s are coming before the LCD-2s... I think I should get the LCD in a month
I think I'll go with the NFB just to try it out, and eventually pass it over if it doesn't fit my taste.
(living in Brazil, despite insane taxes, has some advantages regarding our hobby: you never lose money reselling - things are muuuch more expensive here, so even though I don't profit, I don't lose money either ).
 
thanks again for helping out!
 
and thanks DARREN and DAGOTHUR for adding some info!
 
Cheers,
Stefano
 
 

 

[drez]

Another thing to consider is AudioGD are bringing out new seperate DAC and balanced amp combination in the NDB-17 and NFB-6 which should cost only a couple of hundred more.  AudioGD make excellent Wolfson DAC's, and if you don't like the amplifier you can sell it off and keep the DAC.  should be out in a couple of weeks, and they will come with new tenor asynchornous USB.  You can also get the NFB-10 with the new asynch USB installed also:
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm
 
 

 

[D2Cowones]

 
Absolutely right, Death Magnetic has one of the poorest dynamic range measures in a recording

 
By the way, I shot the question regarding power output to Icon audio, maximum power of HP8 is 1 watt x channel.

 
Quote:

Even if you have Death Magnetic in FLAC, the mastering quality was poor. 

 
 
 

 
 

 

[ninjikiran]

MP3 or flac, a properly mastered song is still going to sound amazing in both formats.

 

[dagothur]

Quote:

MP3 or flac, a properly mastered song is still going to sound amazing in both formats.

Yeah, but you can totally hear the difference between 320 and 1000 kbps.  Totally.
 
 

 

[ninjikiran]

Sometimes I do but thats not an argument for the amp forum,  I just give more credence to a properly mastered song.  That can make poor equipment shine, and great equipment can make it shine brighter.
 
A poorly mastered song seems to sound like mush no matter how good the equipment is. 

 

[dagothur]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjikiran /img/forum/go_quote.gif
A poorly mastered song seems to sound like mush no matter how good the equipment is. 

I was only poking fun, but that's definitely true.  It seems to me that the more resolving and high quality equipment gets, the more painful poorly mastered recordings become to the ears.
 
Edit: I got a chance to hear the O2 with the NFB and LCD-2s today.  It's an extremely good amp and definitely worth the money.  It's a powerful little unit, especially for its size, but I still prefer my NFB.  Overall, the sound was a bit warmer and more dynamic than my NFB, with less focus on transparency and detail.  I also had the opportunity to demo the NFB with the Fostex t50RP Paradox mod, and it was a pleasing combo.  The NFB is a powerful, neutral amp, and that worked extremely well for the Paradox and its neutral signature.  It adds detail, transparency and excellent instrument separation.  I demoed the iBasso D6 connected to the O2, and it reminded me a lot of my Nuforce.  Details were pressed together a bit, and instrument separation suffered.  Overall, the NFB won out with the LCD-2s, but the O2 is still an excellent unit, and it slightly edged out the NFB when paired with the Paradox.

 

[orri]

Hi everyone,
 
I am thinking of upgrading my current HR Micro Amp + D2000 rig and from what I have read I think the LCD-2's will suit my taste. I use a 160gb iPod as a source through a LOD but I will buy the Pure i-20 and a DAC as well as a to get the best out of my iPod. 
 
My budget is sub 1000$ and from what I've read on this thread is that the Schiit Lyr + Bifrost combo would arguably be the best match for the LCD's. The only thing bothering me with the combo is that it is missing the crossfeed option my current Micro Amp has. Since I listen quite a lot to old 60's recordings I find the crossfeed almost a necessary feat.
 
Could I solve this problem by using the Meier Stage Dac (which has crossfeed) and pair it with the Lyr or would I get better synergy by pairing it with a Meier amp? Or should I buy the Bifrost and pair it with a Meier Corda Classic/Concerto? Another option is to buy the HR Desktop Amp but I haven't read any comments on how it drives the LCD-2's...
 
 
Any help would be well appreciated....
 
Thanks,
Orri