[gogogasgas]

I've been putting off my 'big spend' with the headphone/headphone amp until I've finished an even bigger spend (and trauma) with my set-up's front end. Now I'm starting to think that the LCD-2s might be just too hard to match with a headphone amp to bother. The feedback on the few solid state options that would do the LCD-2s real justice is mixed and just slightly bewildering. That's why I mentioned the Denon 7000s in an earlier post. Although the Denons seem (to me) like a bit of a dinosaur, albiet, a top notch one, they are starting to look like an easy option that would give me long lasting satisfaction...with the right amp. However, I feel that LCD-2 is a landmark headphone design that I would like to own to complete and compliment the rest of my rig.
 
Last year, I was talking with a gent who builds Planar speakers. If I remember what he said correctly, the major part of the effective amplification of planar speakers is a large supply of current. The knowledgeable Head Fi folk have also pointed this out in relation to the LCD-2s, along with the other parts of the 'recipe' for good amplification. Perhaps this is why a number of Head Fi-ers like the Audio GD Phoenix - it looks like it has a very decent power supply. 
 
Kwkarth is a fan of the Schiit Asgard. At $250, it looks like a great option until the right super-solid-state amp is released. At the moment, I feel that headphone amp just isn't available yet. As much as I am adverse to valves/tubes, the yet-to-be available Schiit hybrid might just make a Lyr out of me! 

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

I've been putting off my 'big spend' with the headphone/headphone amp until I've finished an even bigger spend (and trauma) with my set-up's front end. Now I'm starting to think that the LCD-2s might be just too hard to match with a headphone amp to bother. The feedback on the few solid state options that would do the LCD-2s real justice is mixed and just slightly bewildering. That's why I mentioned the Denon 7000s in an earlier post. Although the Denons seem (to me) like a bit of a dinosaur, albiet, a top notch one, they are starting to look like an easy option that would give me long lasting satisfaction...with the right amp. However, I feel that LCD-2 is a landmark headphone design that I would like to own to complete and compliment the rest of my rig.
 
Last year, I was talking with a gent who builds Planar speakers. If I remember what he said correctly, the major part of the effective amplification of planar speakers is a large supply of current. The knowledgeable Head Fi folk have also pointed this out in relation to the LCD-2s, along with the other parts of the 'recipe' for good amplification. Perhaps this is why a number of Head Fi-ers like the Audio GD Phoenix - it looks like it has a very decent power supply. 
 
Kwkarth is a fan of the Schiit Asgard. At $250, it looks like a great option until the right super-solid-state amp is released. At the moment, I feel that headphone amp just isn't available yet. As much as I am adverse to valves/tubes, the yet-to-be available Schiit hybrid might just make a Lyr out of me! 

The right solid state amp is on the market and its the Meir Concerto which was and is still the best solid state I have heard to date outclassing many more more expensive amps I have heard.  TheMeir has it all very good bass neutral powerful with a nice treble and a great volume control with zero noise. highly recommended and my favorite solid state amp. But if you really want musical magic the Woo' Decware and Leben will take you all the way there.

 

[oqvist]

gogogas I would say the LCD-2 is one of  the EASIEST of the headphones I currently own to satisfy with amps. But you want to spoil it rotten anyway

 

[Jimmy-Jack]

[size=10pt]This post addresses three subjects:[/size]
[size=10pt]The LCD 2 in general[/size]
[size=10pt]The LCD 2 when driven by the [size=x-small]HeadRoom Balanced Desktop Amp[/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=x-small]The LCD 2 with same amp plus a new cable[/size][/size]
 
[size=10pt]I've been listening to a pair of LCD2s for the past few weeks, driving them via a HeadRoom Balanced Desktop Amp (the amp is actually the version that comes with a DAC, which they've since stopped offering in a balanced version; both the DAC and amp portions have all possible upgrades). I feel I've had adequate time to form an opinion.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]First, my references[/size][size=10pt] in the headphone world are few; I own a pair of closed Audiotechnica ATH M-50s and a pair of Sennheiser HD200s (closed cans that I bought to use when evaluating CDs at the local library). My references in the non headphone world are extensive; I've spent years building and perfecting a multi-SET-amped, 6-way, all-horn system.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Initial impressions: [/size][size=10pt]Using the very well-made (nicely soldered; I checked) balanced cable purchased from Audieze, Right out of the box, the headphones were, to my ears, underwhelming; yes they sounded better than my other "cheap" headphones, but they also sounded congested; a little congested relative to my other headphones, and way congested relative to my horn system. I listen mainly to classical (orchestral) and jazz, and I'm used to hearing the texture in acoustic instruments; that goes for strings wood winds and brass.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]I tried the unbalanced cable and confirmed that, in the case of the amp in question driving these phones, balanced is clearly the way to go.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]I decided to give myself the next few days to think it over; translation; "did I really want to keep them?"[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]New cable: [/size][size=10pt]That weekend, I pulled out a box of cable I bought from a military surplus source. I selected, mostly based on diameter and insulation material, what looked to me like an appropriate cable. Stripping off the insulation confirmed that it was Teflon, revealing conductors (multi stranded) that were not gold in color, but a silvery grey; I have no idea if its real silver or what. The wire comes as a twisted pair; the guy that sold it to me said it was from the 1980's. He could almost certainly tell me more, as it came off a large spool that likely has a reference, but at the time I had no idea I'd be using it for this purpose, so didn't ask.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]I ran eight single conductors (four twisted pairs), from XLRs to mini XLRs (eight feet length); this is the same number of conductors that ALO use in their recent version of the Chainmail cable.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]By the way, I laughed at the price of that ALO cable until I tried making my own... I now know that I would not do the work for one penny less than what ALO ask.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Time for a test listen; didn't even bother shrinking the heat shrink... I was totally prepared to toss the whole thing without wasting another second, and this frankly is exactly what I expected I'd be doing. However...[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Results with new cable: [/size][size=10pt]Whoa!!! It took me a couple minutes to believe the difference. Gone were ALL signs of congestion; everything opened up; it sounded like I had been cured of a head cold, and there was texture galore; brass had that brassy "blatt" when called for (I hate that expression!); strings had the grunge and the hairiness, woodwinds; I don't know how to describe that quality, whatever, it all sounded instantly right; the kind of right that makes you want to turn up the volume and forget about shrinking that heat-shrink. Three weeks later I finally shrunk (shrank?) it. I should also mention that the new cable cleaned up, opened up, and relaxed the bass; with the original cable, I found the bass a bit heavy-handed and slightly clouded. If it was not already understood by my coments regarding openness, s[size=x-small]ound stage benefited significantly. [size=x-small]Regarding what is sometimes said about the LCD 2s possibly rolling off treble, yes, with the orig cable, they do, and I think this is one reason why they are known to be so forgiving of badly mastered recordings (dynamically compressed). What I feel is the rolling off is purely a result of the original cable, as the cable I made totally fixed that. [/size]Negatives? Well, t[/size]he only possible negative is what I just mentioned; a somewhat reduced tolerance to badly mastered (dynamically compressed) music, which is normal, as the upper end is now open and clear, but I'm talking only the really horribly mastered stuff here... I have no problem listening to the majority of my pop and rock recordings.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Conclusions:[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Regarding the LCD 2; based on my little experiment, I'd say if you're not completely happy, don't even think about selling them until you've tried a good (whatever that means; lots of conductors?) cable, and if you have or can swing a balanced amp, so much the better.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Regarding the LDC 2 with the HeadRoom Balanced Desktop Amp; I haven't tried any others (I'm afraid to drive the LCD 2s with my SET amps), but I can tell you, this is one nice-sounding combination; I can't find anything I'd want to change. The "Home DAC" upgrade in this amp by the way is outstanding, but I was not able to compare it to the standard DAC.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]I have on hand some nice oxygen-free copper wire (two kinds actually; one just copper and the other plated with silver, both of which I can easily identify by manufacturer etc); its a little too fat for the mini XLRs, but if I can stop listening, I might go ahead and make up some other cables just for comparison; if I do, I'll post a follow up, probably in a "cable thread".[/size]

 

[Frihed89]

Quote:

 

Which tube based headphone amps output 2-7W into 50 ohms?
 

 
Good for you. 
 
There are some SET amps that will put out, say, 8W into 8 Ohms or 3.5W into Ohms through the speaker connections.  But they won't deliver anything like that into 30-50 Ohms through the headphone outputs.  Ask Craig Uthus, for example, how much power (and current) the ZDT delivers into the LCD-2 load?  Or his new 2A3 amp.

 

[Paganini Alfredo]

Quote:

[size=10pt][/size] [size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Results with new cable: [/size][size=10pt]Whoa!!! It took me a couple minutes to believe the difference. Gone were ALL signs of congestion; everything opened up; it sounded like I had been cured of a head cold, and there was texture galore; brass had that brassy "blatt" when called for (I hate that expression!); strings had the grunge and the hairiness, woodwinds; I don't know how to describe that quality, whatever, it all sounded instantly right; the kind of right that makes you want to turn up the volume and forget about shrinking that heat-shrink.[/size]
[size=10pt][/size]
 
[size=10pt][/size] [size=10pt]Regarding the LDC 2 with the HeadRoom Balanced Desktop Amp; I haven't tried any others (I'm afraid to drive the LCD 2s with my SET amps), but I can tell you, this is one nice-sounding combination; I can't find anything I'd want to change. The "Home DAC" upgrade in this amp by the way is outstanding, but I was not able to compare it to the standard DAC.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
 

Did you get a bum cable or something from ALO? I'm using a single ended chain mail cable out of a HR Ultra Desktop and can't place anything you said about the sound, at least not by swapping different cables.
 
Also, if you have the "home" DAC, that is the stepdown and basic DAC they have to offer. The "upgrade" DAC is the Max DAC found in the ultra desktop. If I'm wrong about any of this someone please correct me!

 

[gogogasgas]

Quote:

The right solid state amp is on the market and its the Meir Concerto which was and is still the best solid state I have heard to date outclassing many more more expensive amps I have heard.  TheMeir has it all very good bass neutral powerful with a nice treble and a great volume control with zero noise. highly recommended and my favorite solid state amp. But if you really want musical magic the Woo' Decware and Leben will take you all the way there.

Thanks, Frank. I'm wondering what sort of headroom the Mier would have before it ran out of puff.  This is an OPAMP design, yes?
 

gogogas I would say the LCD-2 is one of  the EASIEST of the headphones I currently own to satisfy with amps. But you want to spoil it rotten anyway

 
Oqvist, I should have emphasised what you have stated. I want not just an amp that would work 'OK' with the LCD-2s; I want one to bring out the 'best' in the LCD-2s! Spoil it rotten, as you say!
 

 (edited)
[size=10pt]Results with new cable: [/size][size=10pt]Whoa!!! It took me a couple minutes to believe the difference. Gone were ALL signs of congestion; everything opened up.[/size]
Regarding the LCD 2; based on my little experiment, I'd say if you're not completely happy, don't even think about selling them until you've tried a good (whatever that means; lots of conductors?) cable, and if you have or can swing a balanced amp, so much the better.

 
JJ, there is so much interesting info in your post. Hats-off to your hands-on approach. I was thinking that the impedance of the stock cable/s was not a good match for your amp. Perhaps Audeze might shed some light on the design and materials objectives for the stock cable. You may have found a solution to a problem that other posters have commented on. In particular, why some amps sound congested with the LCD-2s. It may be the interaction of the stock cable with their amps, and not the amps, per say.
 
When ordering the LCD-2s, do I just order them with the standard cable and then buy an balanced after market cable (assuming that I decide to go balanced)? And, since I am new to the world of balanced cables, why does the Audeze site ask the purchaser to choose between balanced cable with two 3 pin connectors or balanced cable with a 4 pin connector? What does this mean? Is the answer determined by the different connections offered by the various models of balanced amplifiers?

 

[matthewh133]

Quote:

I've been putting off my 'big spend' with the headphone/headphone amp until I've finished an even bigger spend (and trauma) with my set-up's front end. Now I'm starting to think that the LCD-2s might be just too hard to match with a headphone amp to bother. The feedback on the few solid state options that would do the LCD-2s real justice is mixed and just slightly bewildering. That's why I mentioned the Denon 7000s in an earlier post. Although the Denons seem (to me) like a bit of a dinosaur, albiet, a top notch one, they are starting to look like an easy option that would give me long lasting satisfaction...with the right amp. However, I feel that LCD-2 is a landmark headphone design that I would like to own to complete and compliment the rest of my rig.
 
Last year, I was talking with a gent who builds Planar speakers. If I remember what he said correctly, the major part of the effective amplification of planar speakers is a large supply of current. The knowledgeable Head Fi folk have also pointed this out in relation to the LCD-2s, along with the other parts of the 'recipe' for good amplification. Perhaps this is why a number of Head Fi-ers like the Audio GD Phoenix - it looks like it has a very decent power supply. 
 
Kwkarth is a fan of the Schiit Asgard. At $250, it looks like a great option until the right super-solid-state amp is released. At the moment, I feel that headphone amp just isn't available yet. As much as I am adverse to valves/tubes, the yet-to-be available Schiit hybrid might just make a Lyr out of me! 

TBH, I have tried it through the Burson HA-160 and it sounds incredible. Bought more life to it, and made it a little less dark with more energy. IMO that's a good thing, depends on your taste.

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

Quote:

The right solid state amp is on the market and its the Meir Concerto which was and is still the best solid state I have heard to date outclassing many more more expensive amps I have heard.  TheMeir has it all very good bass neutral powerful with a nice treble and a great volume control with zero noise. highly recommended and my favorite solid state amp. But if you really want musical magic the Woo' Decware and Leben will take you all the way there.

Thanks, Frank. I'm wondering what sort of headroom the Mier would have before it ran out of puff.  This is an OPAMP design, yes?
 

gogogas I would say the LCD-2 is one of  the EASIEST of the headphones I currently own to satisfy with amps. But you want to spoil it rotten anyway

 
Oqvist, I should have emphasised what you have stated. I want not just an amp that would work 'OK' with the LCD-2s; I want one to bring out the 'best' in the LCD-2s! Spoil it rotten, as you say!
 

 (edited)
[size=10pt]Results with new cable: [/size][size=10pt]Whoa!!! It took me a couple minutes to believe the difference. Gone were ALL signs of congestion; everything opened up.[/size]
Regarding the LCD 2; based on my little experiment, I'd say if you're not completely happy, don't even think about selling them until you've tried a good (whatever that means; lots of conductors?) cable, and if you have or can swing a balanced amp, so much the better.

 
JJ, there is so much interesting info in your post. Hats-off to your hands-on approach. I was thinking that the impedance of the stock cable/s was not a good match for your amp. Perhaps Audeze might shed some light on the design and materials objectives for the stock cable. You may have found a solution to a problem that other posters have commented on. In particular, why some amps sound congested with the LCD-2s. It may be the interaction of the stock cable with their amps, and not the amps, per say.
 
When ordering the LCD-2s, do I just order them with the standard cable and then buy an balanced after market cable (assuming that I decide to go balanced)? And, since I am new to the world of balanced cables, why does the Audeze site ask the purchaser to choose between balanced cable with two 3 pin connectors or balanced cable with a 4 pin connector? What does this mean? Is the answer determined by the different connections offered by the various models of balanced amplifiers?

The Meir never ran out of puff it was very loud at 9 and it will blow your head up at 11. The Meir is a very nice amp for the LCD2 and I enjoyed my time with it. But if you want to spend upwards of 1k there is Decware and Woo amps which are better but more expensive.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 

The Meir never ran out of puff it was very loud at 9 and it will blow your head up at 11. The Meir is a very nice amp for the LCD2 and I enjoyed my time with it. But if you want to spend upwards of 1k there is Decware and Woo amps which are better but more expensive.

Frank's comments mirror my own as well with regards to the Concerto. But in the end, I slightly prefer my Woo WA2 a bit more with them. Both amps have very good headroom with the LCD-2s.

 

[Jimmy-Jack]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paganini Alfredo
 
Did you get a bum cable or something from ALO? I'm using a single ended chain mail cable out of a HR Ultra Desktop and can't place anything you said about the sound, at least not by swapping different cables.
 
Also, if you have the "home" DAC, that is the stepdown and basic DAC they have to offer. The "upgrade" DAC is the Max DAC found in the ultra desktop. If I'm wrong about any of this someone please correct me!

ALO cable? Alfredo, you seem to have misunderstood my post regarding cables: I don't have and never did have an ALO cable; the only cables I have are the balanced and un-balanced cables purchased from Audieze, and the balanced cable I made myself. I would like to have an ALO cable for comparison with the one I made...
 
"Home" Upgrades to HeadRoom Balanced Desktop amp: The way I understand it, at the time mine was made (2007), the "Home" upgrades (Home module and Home DAC,) constituted their ultimate offering (see linked article below); along with the Home upgrades, you could also specify a stepped attenuator. The unit I have has all of these options. HeadRoom has since that time stopped offering the DAC module in their balanced amp, and have changed the name of thier upgrades from "Home" to "Max". The unit I own is basically still available, but not in one box. Also, the new stand alone DAC has likely evolved quite a bit relative to the one in my unit (which is a non-oversampling DAC).
 
Regarding that DAC and my comment about is sound quality; this refers to use with the USB input (obviously, my comment assumes the user understands how and is successful in optimising its interaction with a computer). Also, I say it sounds good, but good as compared to what? This is when directly comparred to the $3500 stand-alone DAC of my non-headphone system (it is possible to feed the HeadRoom amp section with an external DAC and compare it directly to the internal DAC via headphones).
 
Nice images of the internals, including the stepped attenuator and a discussion of the Home upgrades at the following link
(starts off talking about power supply; interesting but scroll down to see the images and read about the upgrades):
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue30/headroom_balanced.htm

 

[Paganini Alfredo]

I was tired while reading your post and responding, so apologies as I misinterpreted most of what you had to say. Thanks for the clarifications!

 

[gogogasgas]

RE: Violectric V200. I read 'somewhere' that this amplifier uses Op-Amps. True?

 

[BebopMcJiggy]

 
Quote:

 
When ordering the LCD-2s, do I just order them with the standard cable and then buy an balanced after market cable (assuming that I decide to go balanced)? And, since I am new to the world of balanced cables, why does the Audeze site ask the purchaser to choose between balanced cable with two 3 pin connectors or balanced cable with a 4 pin connector? What does this mean? Is the answer determined by the different connections offered by the various models of balanced amplifiers?

Yeah pretty much.  Some amps have dual 3 pin outputs and some single 4 pin outputs, a headphone load doesn't use the ground pin of the 3 pin connectors anyhow.  Some amps have both though.  I think for headphones the single 4 pin is more convenient, though some amps have the 3 pin xlr plugs because the 4 pin plugs don't come as combo xlr/trs jacks.
 
If you mean integrated circuit op-amps then yes it would appear that it does... I think all the Meier amps, are pretty ic op-amp happy though and most don't seem to mind.

 

[RedBull]

I don't think using op-amp is a problem though, just curious, is Lehmann BCL also using IC op-amp? anybody knows?