[gogogasgas]

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I do like how the Phoenix opens up the soundstage to make the LCD-2s more Stax-like (except tonally) but while keeping the dynamic punch. That is possibly why the NFB-10 owners have had good luck too.

Currawong, you also have a very useful post on this site where you compare the Luxman P1 headphone to the Phoenix. Just can't remember where I saw it or I would put a link in for the other members.
I've been trawling through the Phoenix blog (some of the posts are really 'out there'!) and I believe that the Phoenix (from reports) takes the whole headphone experience to the next level. My main caveat is customer support over time - however, the feedback from Headfi folk dealing with Audio GD seems excellent. Have you had any issues thus-far with the Phoenix/LCD-2 combo?

Originally Posted by zilch0md /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Apparently, all of Schiit's circuits are discrete:
Quoting from http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/general-questions/:

First, use the simplest, purest possible circuit to achieve a specific goal. We’re not in the business of building discrete op-amps; we’re in the business of making music. That’s why you’ll see that all of our circuits are discrete, feature zero feedback, a single voltage gain stage, and are single-ended and noninverting.

Quality and simplicity at a good price. Even though its a hybrid, the new Schiit model is something to watch out for. Epecially as its been designed as a fit for the LCD-2s. No balanced connections, though. 

...the Apache is op-amp based  

And the Apache is a $3,000 set up!

 

[SP Wild]

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I like all the sound signatures described by the owners but would like an amp that could open up the soundstage a little so as to give the music depth. Don't like the exaggerated treble and tinny description of the Hd800 or the price increase...lol. As for the stax, I am not familiar with them and will look into it, thanks.
 

Added detail and separation might also give the sound depth, depending on what you're going for.  There's amps that to my ears give a very wide expansive left to right staging, while there are some that might not be as wide but give a very good sense of layers and space around the sounds.  Either can be good, depending on what you want.  For me, the LCD-2's give so much information that the "width" of the soundstage sometimes isn't as important sometimes as the detail, space, and specificity of the sound, but it's all a matter of taste.  From the limited time I've spent with HD800's, I sometimes think the soundstage is unnaturally large, almost like it's stretched.  There's definitely some music and tastes that it works for though, so YMMV.  To be fair, I also haven't heard the HD800s with an amp that doesn't cause me fatigue at some point.
 
When you say "soundstage" and "depth" are you talking about left to right staging, separation and layers, or both?

I have only recently experienced "depth" with greater understanding with the Phoenix - Ref7 combo driving the LCD2s balanced.  I've never heard headphones with this sense of realism in the past, the frontal and side layering effect is remarkable...I have never enjoyed headphones like this before...


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I have nothing again Schiit, I never heard any Schiit products and I'm sure they are good, but I don't believe in generalization that no-opamp has to be good, like I used to.  I know some products that's VERY good on paper but <blah> on sound, at least to my ears, so, I suggest you forget about IC and non IC based at the moment, listen, judge, then you can read whether they're using IC or not.  My Lehmann BCL (to my ears) are better than those Class A, fully discrete, using the best component in the world etc etc, ok ay okay, Apache is REALLY good I admit.
 
Wish I could listen to the Asgard tho one day, quite an interesting product it sounds, from people feedback.

I ran the LCD2s with the BCL as a technical benchmark for quite a while and thoroughly enjoyed the combo.  Before the LCD2s (and a lesser extent the D7000s)...I was starting to view solid states as inferior to tubes.  The LCD2s were the first headphone I owned that was able to exploit the full potential of the Lehmanns circuit speed.  Its a great amp for those that feel the LCD2s need an injection of a cooler signal, I personally felt that with some dacs, the Lehmann and LCD2s leaned on the cooler side on a lot of recordings for my preferences.
 
On another note, I had a Meir StageDac and Concerto at my desk with my other components...I felt the Concerto was a better amp than the StageDac as a dac.  The Concerto sounded more powerful and more organic than the Lehmann.  It also seems like a better engineered product overall than the Lehmann, therefore the value for money is much greater.  I wish I had more time with the Concerto, but I was constrained time.  I didn't hear any flaws with the LCD2s and Concerto.

 

[KingStyles]

I am hoping that at my next meet that maybe the lcd-2 will click with me. It is not that I dont like them, it is more of I just havent fell in love with there sound yet or havent found them to be better than what I have. I think I just havent spent enough time with them to really appreciate there qualities.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

...the Apache is op-amp based

 
See, I told ya specs doesn't really matter! 
Btw, how did you know Apache is an op-amp? I can't find this info on the RSA website.
Do you also know whether Apache is an IC based op-amp or 'fully discrete' op-amp?
 
Quote:

I ran the LCD2s with the BCL as a technical benchmark for quite a while and thoroughly enjoyed the combo.  Before the LCD2s (and a lesser extent the D7000s)...I was starting to view solid states as inferior to tubes.  The LCD2s were the first headphone I owned that was able to exploit the full potential of the Lehmanns circuit speed.  Its a great amp for those that feel the LCD2s need an injection of a cooler signal, I personally felt that with some dacs, the Lehmann and LCD2s leaned on the cooler side on a lot of recordings for my preferences.
 
On another note, I had a Meir StageDac and Concerto at my desk with my other components...I felt the Concerto was a better amp than the StageDac as a dac.  The Concerto sounded more powerful and more organic than the Lehmann.  It also seems like a better engineered product overall than the Lehmann, therefore the value for money is much greater.  I wish I had more time with the Concerto, but I was constrained time.  I didn't hear any flaws with the LCD2s and Concerto.

 
Finally someone has a comparison BCL vs Concerto with LCD-2.
 
I really like BCL speed and effortless presentation.  It's a good compromise.
 
What do you think of BCL vs Concerto in terms of mids detail (vocal breath, ambience, air), bass detail, treble (extension and body), SPEED (I like speed), depth, dynamics (ability to drive LCD-2).  Or, have you write somewhere else about this 2 comparison?
BCL is so smooth for LCD-2, definitely less fatiguing compared to DV337 (for me).
 
Thanks again SP Wild, you have convinced me before to buy LCD-2, I REALLLY LIKE IT, now you have a chance to convince me again to buy Concerto 

 

[SP Wild]

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Quote:

...the Apache is op-amp based

 
See, I told ya specs doesn't really matter! 
Btw, how did you know Apache is an op-amp? I can't find this info on the RSA website.
Do you also know whether Apache is an IC based op-amp or 'fully discrete' op-amp?
 
Quote:

I ran the LCD2s with the BCL as a technical benchmark for quite a while and thoroughly enjoyed the combo.  Before the LCD2s (and a lesser extent the D7000s)...I was starting to view solid states as inferior to tubes.  The LCD2s were the first headphone I owned that was able to exploit the full potential of the Lehmanns circuit speed.  Its a great amp for those that feel the LCD2s need an injection of a cooler signal, I personally felt that with some dacs, the Lehmann and LCD2s leaned on the cooler side on a lot of recordings for my preferences.
 
On another note, I had a Meir StageDac and Concerto at my desk with my other components...I felt the Concerto was a better amp than the StageDac as a dac.  The Concerto sounded more powerful and more organic than the Lehmann.  It also seems like a better engineered product overall than the Lehmann, therefore the value for money is much greater.  I wish I had more time with the Concerto, but I was constrained time.  I didn't hear any flaws with the LCD2s and Concerto.

 
Finally someone has a comparison BCL vs Concerto with LCD-2.
 
I really like BCL speed and effortless presentation.  It's a good compromise.
 
What do you think of BCL vs Concerto in terms of mids detail (vocal breath, ambience, air), bass detail, treble (extension and body), SPEED (I like speed), depth, dynamics (ability to drive LCD-2).  Or, have you write somewhere else about this 2 comparison?
BCL is so smooth for LCD-2, definitely less fatiguing compared to DV337 (for me).
 
Thanks again SP Wild, you have convinced me before to buy LCD-2, I REALLLY LIKE IT, now you have a chance to convince me again to buy Concerto 

Sorry to disappoint, I only had the Concerto on my desktop for one night and only managed to squeeze in one song... I was only able to form a very general impression with no specifics.  If I get another more detailed audition with more time and direct AB, I will do so and report straight back.  What strikes me is that having seen the Asgard and Concerto in the flesh...they both look bigger in pictures, because in real life...they're the same size as the Lehmann amp...

 

[RedBull]

I'm dissapointed, nah, just kidding.  Thanks, yes please report when you can compare BCL, Asgard and Concerto, would be interesting 

 
Today I will try LCD-2 with local tube amp named Martin (something), I will post if it is of any good.

 

[sokolov91]

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I am hoping that at my next meet that maybe the lcd-2 will click with me. It is not that I dont like them, it is more of I just havent fell in love with there sound yet or havent found them to be better than what I have. I think I just havent spent enough time with them to really appreciate there qualities.

Well no guarantee, but I know I loved mine from the first few tracks... but once I really heard them after some time and realized it was the first headphone where the impressive sound never stops to amaze me it really hit me just how friggen good they are - The imaging, the neutrality, the speed. Going back to other headphones, especially brighter ones just made me realize how wrong they made some songs sound and the lack of imaging really is a big thing in some cases.
 
At least if they don't click with you, there are a number of other super good sounding alternatives.

 

[RedBull]

I too, were love at the first hear with LCD-2 

 

[kingice10]

For Portable Amp Setup, can Meier Corda Stepdance or RSA SR71B cope up in terms of Sound Quantity with the high-end desktop amps?

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

For Portable Amp Setup, can Meier Corda Stepdance or RSA SR71B cope up in terms of Sound Quantity with the high-end desktop amps?

It will sound "nice" but not "great". 

 

[gogogasgas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

 ...the Apache is op-amp based

 
See, I told ya specs doesn't really matter! 
Btw, how did you know Apache is an op-amp? I can't find this info on the RSA website.
Do you also know whether Apache is an IC based op-amp or 'fully discrete' op-amp?

 
Headphone amplifier manufacturers with fully discrete designs advertise the fact 'front and centre' in their product information sheets and on their web sites. I don't think we will see 'Opamps used liberally' as a selling point any time soon. Granted, opmaps have a stigma attached to them and most people wouldn't know what the terms 'fully discrete' and 'opmaps' mean. Still, why plug 'fully discrete' unless it is an important and, arguably, desirable design attribute of an amp?

 

[gogogasgas]

Quote:

Apparently, all of Schiit's circuits are discrete:
Quoting from http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/general-questions/:
 

First, use the simplest, purest possible circuit to achieve a specific goal. We’re not in the business of building discrete op-amps; we’re in the business of making music. That’s why you’ll see that all of our circuits are discrete, feature zero feedback, a single voltage gain stage, and are single-ended and noninverting.

Thanks Zilch!

 

[Currawong]

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Quote:

I do like how the Phoenix opens up the soundstage to make the LCD-2s more Stax-like (except tonally) but while keeping the dynamic punch. That is possibly why the NFB-10 owners have had good luck too.

Currawong, you also have a very useful post on this site where you compare the Luxman P1 headphone to the Phoenix. Just can't remember where I saw it or I would put a link in for the other members.
I've been trawling through the Phoenix blog (some of the posts are really 'out there'!) and I believe that the Phoenix (from reports) takes the whole headphone experience to the next level. My main caveat is customer support over time - however, the feedback from Headfi folk dealing with Audio GD seems excellent. Have you had any issues thus-far with the Phoenix/LCD-2 combo?

 
It probably included the Audiovalve RKV in it too, as I posted three or so times in different threads. Try the first post of the HD-800 amp thread I started.
 
I might be able to borrow the P-1 again to see how it goes with the LCD-2s. It's a coloured amp -- has very slightly emphasised, but great bass. The treble is less clean than the Phoenix, but only by a smidgen.  It does use a cheap alps pot, rather a shock in such an expensive amp. You are paying for the brand and everything that comes with it though.  The sound is typical Luxman though: Slight sweetness at the expense of absolute fidelity.  The Phoenix is rather the neutral-man's monitor amp, when you want to listen to your music and not listen to your gear. This doesn't work so well single-ended -- the colour of the Luxman works better in that respect IMO. But balanced, everything goes WIDE, even Grados with bowls.  I used it as an SE pre to a Parasound Zamp (their smallest, cheapest amp) to a pair of Paradigm Titans, and even then the difference between that and other gear I had on hand at the time was dramatic.  There are no questions speed, power or anything else, the music simply jumps out of nowhere.  The Luxman, on the other hand, is like a carefully crafted tube amp that makes everything sound good. It's rather like the trick of upping the saturation or gamma on a photo just a touch to make it feel warmer. The color to imagine is that of the front panel. It sounds like it looks in a manner of speaking.   If I wasn't in the process of rebuilding a Stacker I'd pick up a P-1u here second-hand as they have been going quite cheap.
 
As for issues, I had a couple, due to the Alps rotary encoders and some (non-audio-signal) caps in the relay system being bad, but I owned one of the first ones and he has long since fixed those issues. Even though I know Kingwa considers the customer a priority (which is why I think he's a good guy) quite a few of us still bug him about ways he could do better.

 

[gogogasgas]

Currawong, that was brilliant - thanks! I know the sound of Luxman equipment well, so I understand exactly what you have said about the P-1 in comparison with the Phoenix. However, I want 'neutral' too so the Phoenix is appealing from that standpoint as well. I have even changed my mind about the possibilities of using either a Phoenix or Lyr as a preamp and running a set of quality powered monitors. BTW- how long have they been making the Phoenix (you say you got an early example)? Sounds like he has 'got the bugs out' of the design.

 

[Currawong]

Going by when I started the Phoenix thread it was a couple of years ago almost exactly. It was my casual question to Kingwa about a balanced headphone amp I think that resulted in it being designed in the first place. I remember it arrived just after my HD-800s did.