Alessandro MS1000 and MS Ultimate - DIY & modding [56K warning]

[Philimon]

I have the MS1 and GS1000 pads in hand, and now I am just waiting for the distancers... I also ordered one of those lambskin headbands in brown - couldn't resist.

So far from listening for the past hour - I really like the MS1 (configured with bowl pads). I cant say at the moment if these headphones are more detailed than my PK1 (I will do an a/b comparison later). I hope the extra bass from the MS1000 mod will help give brass instruments some more oomph.

I will update with impressions and some pics of the completed MS1000 mod later.

 

[Philimon]

How much is the bass supposed to increase with the MS1000 mod? It feels as though the bass only increased some (noticeably and appreciably), but not enough to exhibit any thing like bass guitar well enough in pop/rock music (seriously lacking in music from bands like Gang of Four and Minutemen, so much so that I have to turn on bass boost otherwise I feel like its not worth using the MS1000 at all). If my opinions are different than yours, then what exactly may be the cause of deficient bass if I had assembled the MS1000 improperly?

I used epoxy to attach the distancers to the MS1. Would a more or less than perfect seal allow for more bass? I think I remember from reading earlier in the thread that a less than perfect seal creates more bass... I feel I created a pretty damn tight seal, and used tape afterwards to make sure it was air tight.

Thank you for any thoughts.

 

[nickchen]

That is indeed bad news for you. I think of different possibilities as reason:
- It's not properly burnt in (I doubt that)
- You are are a victim of quality spread (i experienced one extreme bass heavy MS1 becoming totally thin after modding)
- You are a basshead

An improper seal doesn't increase bass, it's rather vice versa.

The MS1K/Ulti isn't a very bassy can generally, it's very un-ultrasonish in that respect. You only get a bit more than a K701, that is DT880 leage or so.

 

[Philimon]

Basshead? I didn't think I was a basshead. I do not like overbearing, or uncontrolled bass - which is why I did not like the D2000. The DT770 (2005) had great bass (considered bass light even by some), but was too bright so I got rid of that as well...

Perhaps I am wrong about having a good seal? Is it a large difference in bass quantity if the seal is not that great? What about if I have too thick a layer of epoxy between the distancer and MS1 - would this effect "bass"?

With bass boost on the bass sounds fine. With bass boost on though - the bass is on par with my PK1. However, I have always felt my PK1 were too warm/bassy. Maybe I just need a little more time to adjust to a truly open and airy, bass-light sounding headphone... I am going to abstain from using EQs or my amp's bass boost function, and allow myself to be accustomed to the MS1000's sound. Then after a week or so, I will see if I feel the same way about the bass.

 

[nickchen]

Yes, maybe you have to get used. When I put on my Alessandros after longer sessions with bass heavy cans, they sound awfully thin as well.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philimon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basshead? I didn't think I was a basshead. I do not like overbearing, or uncontrolled bass - which is why I did not like the D2000. The DT770 (2005) had great bass (considered bass light even by some), but was too bright so I got rid of that as well... Perhaps I am wrong about having a good seal? Is it a large difference in bass quantity if the seal is not that great? What about if I have too thick a layer of epoxy between the distancer and MS1 - would this effect "bass"? With bass boost on the bass sounds fine. With bass boost on though - the bass is on par with my PK1. However, I have always felt my PK1 were too warm/bassy. Maybe I just need a little more time to adjust to a truly open and airy, bass-light sounding headphone... I am going to abstain from using EQs or my amp's bass boost function, and allow myself to be accustomed to the MS1000's sound. Then after a week or so, I will see if I feel the same way about the bass.

How thick and dense was the felt you used in the distancer? That could be part of the issue. Different felts behave differently. Would it make a huge difference? Hard to say, but I have a ton of experience tuning orthodynamics now and every single felt is different and some suck up bass like a sponge while others have almost no effect.

I have not made my distancers yet, but I will be shortly for myself and Kintsaki so I will do a few experiments with different felt at that time and I'll be using SR-125, SR-325, and RS-1s for the mods too.

 

[les_garten]

I bought some distancers from RDS. I had him leave the felt off because I wanted black felt. What weight felt should I use?

.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif I bought some distancers from RDS. I had him leave the felt off because I wanted black felt. What weight felt should I use? .

I'll defer that one to nickchen for now, but my favorite felt for dampening orthos is a tie between a nearly impossible to source cashmere/angora blend that is really dense and a synthetic black felt that is very open to the point light passes through it. I personally plan to start with the open synthetic. There is also a white synthetic I use a lot that is thin and dense. All of these felts are about 2mm thick or so. I think any thicker and it will kink and suck up too much audio across the spectrum , but especially the bass.

I won't even start the distancer experiments until after Aug. 15 as I have far too many other projects in front of those. Try a 1-2mm thick medium density, garment-quality felt picked up at a fabric store first. Then I'll let you know what I find in my experiments and I'll send you the two pieces you would need to replicate it. Then you can let me know which sounds getter to you.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll defer that one to nickchen for now, but my favorite felt for dampening orthos is a tie between a nearly impossible to source cashmere/angora blend that is really dense and a synthetic black felt that is very open to the point light passes through it. I personally plan to start with the open synthetic. There is also a white synthetic I use a lot that is thin and dense. All of these felts are about 2mm thick or so. I think any thicker and it will kink and suck up too much audio across the spectrum , but especially the bass. I won't even start the distancer experiments until after Aug. 15 as I have far too many other projects in front of those. Try a 1-2mm thick medium density, garment-quality felt picked up at a fabric store first. Then I'll let you know what I find in my experiments and I'll send you the two pieces you would need to replicate it. Then you can let me know which sounds getter to you.

Thanx! I'll start thin then.

.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanx! I'll start thin then. .

Thin and dense.

Eventually I plan to make my own felt too, but I can't find the fibers I want at a reasonable cost so it's been pushed to a back burner project.

 

[kangcore]

finally, my ms-1000 is complete! just grabbed a pair of GS1K pads from jaben in Singapore today... and received nick's distancers earlier in June.

I don't have much experience with higher-end open cans, but I can tell you this - as far as i'm concerned, the MS-1000 is definitely a massive step up from your standard MS-1s. The most noticeable difference really is in soundstage - the stereo field widens considerably and i'm getting a much more three-dimensional soundstage.

I had the distancers installed for a while before getting the GS1K pads, and I was listening with the smaller grado bowl pads. Whilst there was some change in soundstage, I found that this setup created a rather annoying midrange emphasis. With the GS1K pads, that midrange hump has gone - presentation is much flatter and much more like the original MS-1 character, although I've put in quite a number of hours on this set so its nicely burned in. Highs sparkle, midrange is smooth and silky. Bass impact is reduced, but as some of the other reviews have said, its a very audiophile bass quality. I'd say that the basic Grado/Alessandro character is there - these cans love to rock! But its much more amenable to gentler styles as well now, handling classical and light jazz with aplomb.

Am going to listen at work for most of Tuesday, will post more impressions if any later! But right now... its back to my MS-1000

 

[nickchen]

Listening at work, you've got a friendly boss.

Mine threatened me to re-erect SS drumhead court-martials if I would ever dare to appear with headphones again.

 

[Philimon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan /img/forum/go_quote.gif How thick and dense was the felt you used in the distancer? That could be part of the issue. Different felts behave differently. Would it make a huge difference? Hard to say, but I have a ton of experience tuning orthodynamics now and every single felt is different and some suck up bass like a sponge while others have almost no effect.

The distancers have a white colored felt installed, and there is Beyerdynamic foam on top of the drivers... I bought the distancers from apatN, whom also supplied the felt and foam. Perhaps he will be able to chime in sometime on the details (I believe he is currently on vacation).

The bass does not feel as anaemic as it did yesterday morning. I listened to the MS1000 all day, and by the evening time - I did not feel like I was missing much any more (in the bass department atleast). Fellow MS1000 owner xkRoWx owns the Yuin PK1, which is the phone I am comparing my MS1000 to as well, and he conferred exactly how I felt the MS1000's sound characteristics had changed after modding. Here is a quote from xkRoWx (I don't think he will mind):

"The headphone is bass light compared to the PK1, so don't be surprised. I would say the OK2 sound closest to the MS1000. PK1 have a lower bass extension compared the MS1000, and much thumpier. I find that the bass loses some energy after the mod, but in return produces a more "neutral" sound across the spectrum. Give your ear some time to adjust to the sound, you'll learn to love it. "

And the soundstage is very wide, but does not exactly have much depth and height (I haven't done much testing with the soundstage yet, because I was too worried about making sure the bass was adequate). Instrument placement and separation also doesn't seem to be that great thus far (detail in general, ie. cymbals are not clear). These headphones do have their excellent qualities, and no insufferable traits. I can see myself keeping these for a niche purpose, unlike the D2000 and DT770 2005 250ohm which did have insufferable traits. I have an AD900 on the way for critical listening...

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philimon /img/forum/go_quote.gif The distancers have a white colored felt installed, and there is Beyerdynamic foam on top of the drivers... I bought the distancers from apatN, whom also supplied the felt and foam. Perhaps he will be able to chime in sometime on the details (I believe he is currently on vacation). The bass does not feel as anaemic as it did yesterday morning. I listened to the MS1000 all day, and by the evening time - I did not feel like I was missing much any more (in the bass department atleast). Fellow MS1000 owner xkRoWx owns the Yuin PK1, which is the phone I am comparing my MS1000 to as well, and he conferred exactly how I felt the MS1000's sound characteristics had changed after modding. Here is a quote from xkRoWx (I don't think he will mind): "The headphone is bass light compared to the PK1, so don't be surprised. I would say the OK2 sound closest to the MS1000. PK1 have a lower bass extension compared the MS1000, and much thumpier. I find that the bass loses some energy after the mod, but in return produces a more "neutral" sound across the spectrum. Give your ear some time to adjust to the sound, you'll learn to love it. " And the soundstage is very wide, but does not exactly have much depth and height (I haven't done much testing with the soundstage yet, because I was too worried about making sure the bass was adequate). Instrument placement and separation also doesn't seem to be that great thus far (detail in general, ie. cymbals are not clear). These headphones do have their excellent qualities, and no insufferable traits. I can see myself keeping these for a niche purpose, unlike the D2000 and DT770 2005 250ohm which did have insufferable traits. I have an AD900 on the way for critical listening...

That makes sense. I have a couple of cans, especially the QP400s, that really sound different when they are put on after another can but become really enjoyable after the ears adjust. The QP400s sound really bright at first, but then they just disappear and the music is enjoyable. Swapping back to a less bright can takes a lot longer to adjust too. Same thing happens on the bass side with my Sextetts or T10s. Going to most of my other cans makes the ears ask where the bass is.

 

[khii]

Thanks to nickchen's innovative discovery and RDS's distancers, I finally have my very own MS1000i!! Here are some quick photos.

I find that using the non-corrosive silicon sealer as mentioned in this forum before does a great job with the seal and yet is easily removable if I have to say.....sent them back for repair. I spent a good week burning in the drivers and another 2 weeks listening to the original MS1i before modding. After 1000ing, the difference is indeed amazing!! This is easily my favourite pair of headphones.

Now if anyone can comment, does putting the felt over the driver as oppose to on top of the distancers affect the bass output?