[RPGWiZaRD]

 

I got my RMA number from digizoid but I'm having a hard time deciding what to do now.  I don't care about bypass mode but am concerned about lack of amplification with the revised ZO 2.  My unit is actually pretty decent, as it doesn't have too much hiss and no popping when powering off/on so I'm afraid of getting something "worse" when I get it back.  
 
For those of you that did the exchange -- is amplification completely removed or just reduced?
 
Decisions...

I would personally give it a few days and see what kind of "solution" digiZoid has to offer in case they are trying to revamp it once more. These guys (and women) seem to really work hard to try and solve this but I don't see how they are gonna be able to make it work with every possible setup from sensitive IEM to work both with LOD and HO as well as a little more demanding headphones say 150 ohm or something and still provide enough volume for the more demanding headphones but not too loud for the most sensitive IEMs and also that it won't result in hissing in neither cases, without offering a gain switch for low and high gain but who knows what they are planning.

 

[The Larch]

Quote:

I got my RMA number from digizoid but I'm having a hard time deciding what to do now.  I don't care about bypass mode but am concerned about lack of amplification with the revised ZO 2.  My unit is actually pretty decent, as it doesn't have too much hiss and no popping when powering off/on so I'm afraid of getting something "worse" when I get it back.  
 
For those of you that did the exchange -- is amplification completely removed or just reduced?
 
Decisions...

amplification is completely removed for me.

 

[kazxenon]

same here, amplification seems either completely removed or heavily toned down 

 

[F900EX]

Are we talking about volume  ??  just trying to understand what people mean by amplification. Since it does have a volume option on it.  Or you guys talking about the contour levels ......

 

[louisnomad]

If I understand, there is no more those 6db more amplification. Although there is a volume control, the control ofSmart Vektor, but lost the extra strength for headphones with higher impedance, and lost the by-pass ...

 

[gaspir324]

Hows headphones with 20Ω-80Ω impedance? Loud enough?

 

[F900EX]

It sure be nice to hear from MizMoxie regarding these things.  Yep, they said they have found the source of the problem, but never said what they did to fix the issue or more important what has been taken away in order to have no hiss.
 
 
Thing I don't get is the E11 has none of these problems. Why does the ZO2.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

 

Quote:

Hows headphones with 20Ω-80Ω impedance? Loud enough?

Well I personally think 80 ohm might be on the border of usable. DT770 80ohm is a good measurement which is a bit silent but "doable" even on onboard Realtek or a portable DAP or something like that (not speaking about sound quality here but volume) but you'll gonna have to turn up the volume a bit (near max if it's a weak source), now imagine with ZO you might have to put it slightly higher even so we're probably talking 80~95% volume or so here I could imagine for "normal" listening volume, not optimal but perhaps doable but yea 80 ohm around that is probably the limit what that rev 2 ZO2 would be capable to handle. This is just a speculation based on unamped DT770 Pro 80/ohm experiences which I've tried as well so don't quote me on that.
 
Quote:

 
Thing I don't get is the E11 has none of these problems. Why does the ZO2.

It has a high and low gain, that says everything. Volume lvl/hissing is straightly related to the gain level. One gain setting can't handle the most sensitive IEM nor handle 150+ ohm headphone at the same time, you get a problem on either ends, either volume won't be enough for the more demanding headphone or the IEM will be too loud and have noticable hissing. With 2 different gain modes (or more) you could make it work with IEMs and sensitive headphones as well as a bit more demanding headphones. You still have to get the gain level just about right though so you land "in-the-middle" of the targeted impedance/sensitivity headphone/IEM range. Say if low gain mode is wanted to work with a range of 8 ~ 64 ohm for example (ofc the sensitivity of IEM/headphone will have an impact too but this is to simplify), you would want the gain lvl to be tweaked to sound perfect with a headphone with 28 ohm impedance, this gain setting still might have a tiny bit hissing with the the most sensitive 10 ohm IEM around but you just can't optimize it for 10 ohm use with 2 levels only at least then 64 ohm headphone might not work so great with it anymore for example. See this is the problem and why most portable amps (well more serious amps anyway) have gain switches as there will be a problem on both ends (sensitive IEMs or demanding headphones) if the gain levels are too few and there's no going around that, you can like minimize noise and such to some extent but you'll never be able to completely escape the issues of hissing if gain is set too high for a headphone/IEM.
 

 

[louisnomad]

Quote:

Thing I don't get is the E11 has none of these problems. Why does the ZO2.

 
lol
 
silly question...
 
2 companies, 2 totally different products, there is no way to compare each other. 
 
Digizoid was in a hurry to have it on sale before christmas, but the wise thing to do was to test and hold the production before send it to their customers. Now, they will throw away any profit they got with ZO2 to fix it with an even worst solution... I'm pretty sure it will be the first and last time they will do things that way...

 

[Jae304]

Quote:

amplification is completely removed for me.

 
Quote:

same here, amplification seems either completely removed or heavily toned down 

 
bummer 

 but thanks for the replies guys.  Looks like I'll hang onto my unit for now and reconsider down the line if there are any further revisions.  

 

[F900EX]

Quote:

 
lol
 
silly question...
 
2 companies, 2 totally different products, there is no way to compare each other. 
 
Digizoid was in a hurry to have it on sale before christmas, but the wise thing to do was to test and hold the production before send it to their customers. Now, they will throw away any profit they got with ZO2 to fix it with an even worst solution... I'm pretty sure it will be the first and last time they will do things that way...

 
2 different companies sure, but regarding the products they are not totally different, IMO the two products do 2 things, enhance sound and increase bass. Sure they go about it two totally different ways, but in principle they are the same.
 

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

It sure be nice to hear from MizMoxie regarding these things.  Yep, they said they have found the source of the problem, but never said what they did to fix the issue or more important what has been taken away in order to have no hiss.
 
 
Thing I don't get is the E11 has none of these problems. Why does the ZO2.

No, the E11 has a whole *other* set of problems ... you know why I cant link to the source of the following criticisms, but I suspect that most of you know where it comes from. Unlike the rest of us, he has measurements to back up his subjective impressions. Just as they did with my E9, Fiio appear to have come so close (again..) only to make some questionable design decisions.
 
 
 
FIRST CLASS:

1. Small and light
2. Relatively low noise
3. Flat frequency response
4. Low output impedance
5. Significantly improved performance over Mini3
6. Two gain options
7. USB battery charging

ECONOMY:

1. Cannot use the amp on external power (can only run from the battery)
2. Even the high gain setting limits output with iPod LOD input
3. Fails to meet published power specs at 1% THD both channels driven
4. Third channel creates some interchannel distortion and degrades performance
5. Some moderate low frequency phase shift
6. Shows signs of instability with difficult loads 
7. Odd clipping behavior into 15 and 33 ohms implies power supply limitations
8. Significant RF leakage from DC-DC converter into output

 

 

[DannyBai]

Quote:

Hows headphones with 20Ω-80Ω impedance? Loud enough?

I've tried it with 50 ohm headphones and at max volume it's at a comfortable level.  So I would say it's not loud enough.  Headphones at 40 ohms and less do just fine.  This is with both HO and LOD.  After doing some testing, it does seem un-amped and only the smartVector function is available.  Glad I kept the original ZO.  I still think the second revision of ZO2 is worth it for the LOD function but I understand the frustrations of the shortcomings.  It would been wiser if digiZoid would have let us test them before final production.  

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

     Quote:

It would been wiser if digiZoid would have let us test them before final production.  

This is a very good suggestion especially for a small company. Hopefully they take this as a lesson for future releases to avoid these launch problems as they are something which should always be avoided at all costs as the launch is so important for the reputation/success for the product. If they either don't have the resources (read time or money to go out and buy lots of different equipment and test them out) simply outsource the amps for testruns to a few select people before the launch which is a very common business move, to people that 1) got experience of these kind of things 2) has as big collection of IEMs/headphones and sources as possible. This will both save time and hazzle and minimize the risk of issues that might have been undetected at their labs and they might even get some feedback that might be useful to make the product as good as possible and allow some time to ensure the product is perfected as much as possible before the launch. They can continue selling their old version meanwhile running this "evaluation period" of the new product so technically it won't be a matter of delaying a launch, it just matters when they inform they will release a new product.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

  It would been wiser if digiZoid would have let us test them before final production.  

 
They were already late getting the ZO2 to market, and one can only imagine how many suggestions they would have received on everything from amp gain to output power to the adjustability of the SmartVektor settings. My personal suggestion would have been to make that bloody bright light about 1/10th the size that it is, but that was an easy fix courtesy of black masking tape.
 
If you think about the 'fix' logically, all they had to do was remove the gain multiplier - effectively reverting to an amp with zero gain. If said amp doesnt have the power to drive some phones, then so be it - that's the price you've elected to pay. No gain, no pain.