[MN8372]

Talking about tube pre-amps, I accidently stumbled onto a SS pre-amp into a tube amp which works as well.

I bought a Pass Labs HPA-1 with the intention of selling my Woo Wa6-SE. Unfortunately the Woo didn't have a pre-out, but the Pass Labs did. I figured I'd hook it up just to try it out.

Man. Been amazing. Was looking to upgrade off the Woo because it was too soft for the Calderas. Now with the Pass Labs it added so much more punch, definition, while keeping the tube goodness. Loving it so far

Love my Supratek 300B pre into Dukei CFA3. Made a big difference. More holographic (as expected) but also more punch and mid-bass. Listening to my Calderas with this combo right now. Sounds amazing.

Having a good run with the Calderas at the moment. For the past few months I preferred my Susvaras but now reaching more for the Calderas. Funny how preferences change over time.

 

[goldwerger]

I've never heard one of his amps. Any good?

yea, he's made some real unique amps. His designs always highlight super high quality power components which I'm certain contribute to his amps sounding so clear.

 

[ChJL]

What if SS and tube amp both have pre functionality, is there a general rule which to choose as pre? As in which choice brings out what qualities?
Given using a planar like Caldera?

 

[BassicScience]

What if SS and tube amp both have pre functionality, is there a general rule which to choose as pre? As in which choice brings out what qualities?
Given using a planar like Caldera?

Not sure there's a general rule, but I strongly prefer a tube preamp into a solid state amp. This may be a holdover from my prior years of mostly listening to speakers. Tubes are very linear small-signal devices, which makes them very well-suited for class A preamp duty. They are less well-suited to deliver large currents, as required by speakers and some planars. Also, tube amps typically have significantly higher output impedances, which may result in flabbier bass on some cans.

OTOH, there are too many different headphones and tube amps to state anything categorically. A lot of people swear by tube amps for driving the Caldera and other ZMFs. There's an entire lengthy thread on amp pairings for ZMF headphones, so that may be another good place to post your question. As an aside, I doubt too many have tried putting a solid state preamp in front of a tube headphone amp, and I don't really see the point of doing it unless said preamp has tone controls, crossfeed, etc., but YMMV.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Not sure there's a general rule, but I strongly prefer a tube preamp into a solid state amp. This may be a holdover from my prior years of mostly listening to speakers. Tubes are very linear small-signal devices, which makes them very well-suited for class A preamp duty. They are less well-suited to deliver large currents, as required by speakers and some planars. Also, tube amps typically have significantly higher output impedances, which may result in flabbier bass on some cans.

OTOH, there are too many different headphones and tube amps to state anything categorically. A lot of people swear by tube amps for driving the Caldera and other ZMFs. There's an entire lengthy thread on amp pairings for ZMF headphones, so that may be another good place to post your question. As an aside, I doubt too many have tried putting a solid state preamp in front of a tube headphone amp, and I don't really see the point of doing it unless said preamp has tone controls, crossfeed, etc., but YMMV.

Tube buffer devices were never "a thing" in 2-channel audio, and over the years they became even less present in the marketplace. Nevertheless, a properly designed & executed tube buffer placed between the DAC's output and the SS headphone amp can do very good things for the sound.

 

[goldwerger]

Not sure there's a general rule, but I strongly prefer a tube preamp into a solid state amp. This may be a holdover from my prior years of mostly listening to speakers. Tubes are very linear small-signal devices, which makes them very well-suited for class A preamp duty. They are less well-suited to deliver large currents, as required by speakers and some planars. Also, tube amps typically have significantly higher output impedances, which may result in flabbier bass on some cans.

OTOH, there are too many different headphones and tube amps to state anything categorically. A lot of people swear by tube amps for driving the Caldera and other ZMFs. There's an entire lengthy thread on amp pairings for ZMF headphones, so that may be another good place to post your question. As an aside, I doubt too many have tried putting a solid state preamp in front of a tube headphone amp, and I don't really see the point of doing it unless said preamp has tone controls, crossfeed, etc., but YMMV.

@ChJL +1 on the above. Most commonly seen tube in preamp. I've used both SS and OTC amps in line as output stage which can work equally well with planar headphones, as long as you have lower output impedance wtih higher power (as you would need if you used those amps on your own). In short -- any amp that would work with the Caldera, you can experiment with adding a tube preamp before it. I've seen this improve and detract. Just another element in shaping synergy. For most this would be an overkill and a headache, and for some of us who enjoy tinkering way too much () this is another fun element to play with..

 

[ChJL]

Main system: DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid) + DDC + two or sometimes three amps (currently V281 & Icon Audio HP8, with the V281 serving as preamp) + electronic crossover + class D amp + speakers (KEF 103.2s) + sub (JLAudio e110)Side system: DAC (Metrum Onyx) + DDC + Wells Milo + Liquid Carbon v2

@Pharmaboy
so you chose to do it the other way around in both set ups?

 

[Pharmaboy]

@Pharmaboy
so you chose to do it the other way around in both set ups?

Not sure I understand your question. Do what the other way around?

 

[ChJL]

In short -- any amp that would work with the Caldera, you can experiment with adding a tube preamp before it. I've seen this improve and detract. Just another element in shaping synergy.

my idea was actually finding a tube amp for planars I use. f.e. guys from Feliks say "no problem driving planars with Euforia"... but many Caldera users don't recommend that pairing. So I'm wondering if (theoretically) one can get (some) tube flavor when using a tube pre...

 

[ChJL]

Not sure I understand your question. Do what the other way around?

SS as pre into tube amp...

 

[goldwerger]

my idea was actually finding a tube amp for planars I use. f.e. guys from Feliks say "no problem driving planars with Euforia"... but many Caldera users don't recommend that pairing. So I'm wondering if (theoretically) one can get (some) tube flavor when using a tube pre...

don't use an OTL with Caldera. it's a suboptimal idea at best. you will get sound. you might get volume. it won't be ideal.

yes, you could use a tube preamp to get some flavor. Just make sure the tube on the front end, to which the headphone is connected, has low output impedance and reasonable power.

 

[Pharmaboy]

SS as pre into tube amp...

Oh. No, haven't done that here.

But if I did it would be the Icon Audio HP8 as pre into either Wells Milo or Violectric V281. Truthfully neither one needs help from a preamp; both sound wonderful run straight from a NOS DAC. The V281 may need help even less than the Milo, because the V281's rendering of space (around notes & recording space) is exceptional for a SS design, and this is also an attribute of good tube preamps.

BTW, to answer your other post above: the HP8 is a tube amp that really nails it with the Caldera. That is a great combination. Maybe it's because the HP8 is transformer-coupled, not OTL ... not sure why, but it's a killer planar amp.

 

[jmanpd]

Talking about tube pre-amps, I accidently stumbled onto a SS pre-amp into a tube amp which works as well.

I bought a Pass Labs HPA-1 with the intention of selling my Woo Wa6-SE. Unfortunately the Woo didn't have a pre-out, but the Pass Labs did. I figured I'd hook it up just to try it out.

Man. Been amazing. Was looking to upgrade off the Woo because it was too soft for the Calderas. Now with the Pass Labs it added so much more punch, definition, while keeping the tube goodness. Loving it so far

Not sure if this helps but if I could've done it the other way to see if it improved the sound, I would.

What @BassicScience is saying is right - have to use the high gain on my Woo to get the full power on my Calderas. Might not have that difficulty on a SS amp.

I will say though. I tried my Calderas on the Woo without the Pass Labs as a preamp, and they definitely lack punch and clarity compared to when I do use the SS Pass Labs as a preamp.

 

[idairyou]

my idea was actually finding a tube amp for planars I use. f.e. guys from Feliks say "no problem driving planars with Euforia"... but many Caldera users don't recommend that pairing. So I'm wondering if (theoretically) one can get (some) tube flavor when using a tube pre...

What's your budget?

HA-300MKII is an SET tube amp, and while the Bliss is my preferred choice with the Caldera I still really enjoy them on the 300MKII.

Plenty of body, slam, resolution, and detail and I never go above 12noon on the volume dial.

 

[chrisnyc75]

A lot of people swear by tube amps for driving the Caldera

FWIW, I now have a TOTL solid state and TOTL tube amp and I would suggest, based on my experience, that Caldera pairing depends largely on what you're listening to. A reasonably powerful tube amp will drive Caldera just fine, but what you get from it is markedly different than what you get from ss + Caldera. For electronica & modern productions, solid state provides a precision and slam that tubes cannot match - this effect is way more pronounced than it is with dynamic drivers IMO. For classical, jazz, acoustic, etc, you'll get a wider more airy sound from tubes, but with less precision. Again, the effect is way more pronounced than it is with dynamic drivers. YMMV.