[googleborg]

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/528473/review-anedio-d1-dac-my-new-reference-dac
 
project86 whose new reference DAC is this one also lives in the bay area (am i right in thinking san francisco is the bay area?) perhaps his will be at the meet hehe

 

[upstateguy]

yeah a DSP of sorts that would alter the input to make the ouput the same based on some kinda 'loopback' thing  you're right it would probably cost a lot lot more than the dacs you'd want to emulate haha...

 


I've been thinking about this for a while and don't think it would be any more expensive to implement than the DSPs that replicate various venues like Albert Hall or Carnegie Hall. Once the parameters have been measured, they can be reproduced just like the venue DSPs.

USG 

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

Before you say anything, yes I used the search. I came up with this link.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/517082/what-makes-a-dac-better-than-another
 
It seems to say expensive DACs still sacrifice something... Now why are people spending $1000+ on DACs when there are supposedly equally good cheap DACs?
 
I'm willing to put the money up for something like the Anedio D1, but I'd really like to know if there is actually a real benefit before I drop that much money.

People buy expensive Dacs for pride of ownership, fractional improvements in overall sound, and specific sonic attributes that they find worth spending the extra money.
 
Many people who have tried cheap dacs actually like them but usually end up upgrading because of hype surrounding more expensive dacs.  Some Valab owners who have a/b'd the Valab against dacs costing 5x more and still preferred the Valab, I myself am one such person.

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

 
Quote:

Why do people buy expensive DACs?

 
Because they can.

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Quote:

 
 
Because they can.

Because they sound a (little) better. There is huge diminishing returns, true, but if you look at what Anedio and the others are doing to make a razor sharp, accurate, and flat DAC, it is definitely not snake oil. Much less like snake oil than cables, which I "believe" in BTW. 
 
Maybe you can't tell the difference directly in an A/B between different DACs most of the time, but over time I think you can hear differences pretty well from memory. I think after you reach a point, like at 1k-3k (somewhere in there) your source plays a much bigger role in improvements. 

 

[vert]

I have an iDecco with a built-in DAC. I did a quick listen to it with USB, to compare to the Chord I have. Once you have one of the nicer DACs, it's hard to go back. The Chord has a grandstaging, a sense of occasion. It's quite dramatic compared to the iDecco. I'm going to also be listening to a Rega ISIS, which supposedly is as analog as you get short of spending $$$ on a Naim CD555.

 

[hello im sean]

wouldnt it be worth putting the money towards a new set of cans/speakers? atleast to me the biggest difference is made at the driver end of the chain as long as the stuff in between is decent

 

[nwavguy]

I have to agree many spend far more on DACs than they need to. And, perhaps worse, many of those expensive decisions are based on rather questionable information.
 
Much of the info in this thread is very applicable to this DAC discussion:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/498192/what-makes-one-portable-player-better-than-the-other
 
I've also tried to address some of the more objective (i.e. measurable) issues that affect sound quality on my blog and I'll be posting more soon--including a detailed review of the NuForce uDAC 2. I own a Benchmark DAC1 Pre as a reference.

 

[upstateguy]

I read your blog.  Really good stuff.  Keep it up.
 
USG

 

[Pricklely Peete]

 
Quote:

With acoustic music, the differences between DACs are readily apparent. The soundstage is wider, with instruments having more space around them and sound more like separate instruments than part of a blur of music. The level of detail increases as well and the harshness (distortion) is lower.  With the DACs I've tried, the ones with the most comprehensive power supplies always won out.  I see a lot of high-end DACs with only minimalist power supplies and, honestly, I don't hold much hope for them at what the manufacturer is offering.  It could be that the much I don't know about electronics is biasing me here though.

Curra one of the bedrock principles WRT  all things digital is centered around the quality (or lack thereof) of the PSU (amount of PSU stages and their quality is crucial) which in turn will have a decisive impact on the overall end result....improvements in PSU (unless the unit already has a kick arse PSU) will always lift a prospective digital device to greater heights sonically speaking. Of that assertion your admitted bias has no bearing in truth since that presumed bias is actually right on the money. Of course there are also other mission critical aspects to the digital device's design as a whole in terms of build quality, layout, parts selection  that are necessary in order to achieve the desired end result but one thing is for certain...a lousy PSU cannot be overcome by sinking more $$$ into the other parts of the circuit, at some point doing so is throwing good money down the drain.
 
Peete.

 

[nwavguy]

Quote:

I read your blog.  Really good stuff.  Keep it up.

Thanks! As time permits, I intend to keep adding to it.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

 
Quote:

wouldnt it be worth putting the money towards a new set of cans/speakers? atleast to me the biggest difference is made at the driver end of the chain as long as the stuff in between is decent

In many ways setting aside a large portion of your system budget (should you have one) towards the transducers is the wisest thing you could do. The hard part is finding out what you like and what headphone delivers your ideal. Once you have settled on a headphone that meets or exceeds your goal then you can concentrate on the other pieces paying close attention to what works well with your transducer choice. I would say the choice of the headphone is slightly less important than source quality although both parts of that system equation can have dramatic effects if either is not up to snuff (able to extract the max performance from each other). Having complimentary parts of the system is the key to having a great experience or end result where potential of the individual pieces is realized rather than hindered by the combination as a whole. Easier said than done which is why Headfi is a good place to find a lot of great tips and info towards making as few purchase mistakes as possible when starting from scratch (or one is a beginner in the audio hobby).
 
Here is how I would judge a basic system's priorities when starting from scratch.....
 
no 1 - source quality is crucial as everything after this stage will be effected ( adversely or not ) downstream from it. Major issues with your source cannot be corrected by the amp or the transducers only masked to a small degree.
no 1b - the quality of the transducers is right behind source since none of the systems capabilities will be realized in full with sub par cans/speakers what have you
no 2 - amp quality, voicing, synergy with source and transducer and how well it deals with the source signal (drives the transducer load)  in terms of transparency, fidelity etc is part and parcel in a good "system". There are few really bad amps I've found out over the years, most of them do a fair job. Again a great amp fed by a great source will get one step closer to the max potential of your chosen speakers/headphones.
no 3 - ancillary components like cabling (mains cables, IC cables, digital cables) can have positive or negative effects, again it depends on what works best with your system and the headphones chosen. Some say finding the right cables for your system that also match your budget is one of the harder parts of a system build to get right. Due to the contentious nature of cables being important (cheap vs expensive) in an overall system's percieved max result is an argument that will never end. I'm a cable guy for the record FWIW. Experimenting here is something you should consider once you have the base pieces of your system solidified and well matched. Changes can be anyhwere from subtle to quite palin (good and bad).
no 4 - giving your system a decent clean power source and a decent rack to sit on is another important factor if you want get the most from your gear. Again this part of the audio world has many supporters and I'm sure just as many detractors. I think having decent clean power and a solid rack for the gear is always better ...some folks can't hear any improvements...this another YMMV and it is last on the list for a reason.
 
Really 1 and 1b are the bedrock of great system IMO.....
 
Hope that helped a little,
 
Peete.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

wouldnt it be worth putting the money towards a new set of cans/speakers? atleast to me the biggest difference is made at the driver end of the chain as long as the stuff in between is decent

This is where it gets tricky. Yes and no. If one of the things in the chain, namely source, amp and headphones/speakers are deficient, then upgrading any of the others will result in seeminly no improvement. At best, there might be subtle tonal differences which are more or less pleasing. This assuming one is seeking more detail (lower distortion) and better overall performance (linearity in performance even with complex music).

 

[pekingduck]

Great blog. I look forward to your uDac2 review (it's on my radar)

 
Quote:

Thanks! As time permits, I intend to keep adding to it.

 

[lag0a]

I think people have different ideas of what the DAC does. They may think it is a bridge between the Transport and the headphone amp so it must be that much more important. Maybe because it holds both the digital and analog parts so this must be the most important. They may think it is a "converter" so what they convert is more important than what a Transport produces for it to convert.
Maybe it isn't that it is expensive but they are looking for a higher bit and birate that their current DAC doesn't do. The expense of it all is the power and parts depending on the manufacturer but of course some manufacturers may charge more with the same parts but a different design.
 
I find my DAC sounds best turned on 24/7 so any integrated cd player or headphone amp will use more watts. I think a DAC should only need less than 1 watt to function.