[estreeter]

People willingly spend obscene amounts on their hobbies, often to the point of obsession.
 
Watching telly last weekend, an Aussie drag racer laughed ruefully when handed the cheque as winner of the Top Fuel category at the meeting. 10K winnings would have barely covered his costs at the best of times, but he had hurt several motors on the way to the podium - said motors come in at >100K each. Sure, its all about advertising and tax writeoffs, but I have little doubt that the sport has consumed the equivalent of a very nice yacht from his own pocket. We do the things that make us happy - if a 15K DAC makes you happy, so be it. 

 

[sterling1]

Now that's funny

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

at this point
 
someone usually says but you cannot measure X or Y. Normally something like PRAT or Timbre. Well PRAT is so badly defined and so subjectively perceived that is it not terribly useful. Pace would seem to imply speed or timing variations easily measurable. Rythmn - surely nothing can change the meter of the music, Timing again implies timing variations. Timbre is all about Frequencies, harmonics, phase differences and so on, again measurable phenomenon.

 
The psychological perception of PRaT may not be exactly the same as what PRaT actually is. For example, eq'ing might alter the sense of pace.

 

[leeperry]

I think the reason is that a poor sounding DAC will smear all the instruments together when there's too many of them(or little dynamics range)...OTOH, a higher end transport + DAC will never let one instrument blur the other. They're all there, and you can listen to each of them separately if you like: no more "wall of sound". It's even more impressive w/ highly compressed music, I'm listening to "Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels\09. The Stooges - I Wanna Be Your Dog.flac" as I'm typing this...this tune is unlistenable on a cheap DAC IMHO.

 

[wind016]

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I think the reason is that a poor sounding DAC will smear all the instruments together when there's too many of them(or little dynamics range)...OTOH, a higher transport + DAC will never let one instrument blur the other. They're all there, and you can listen to each of them separately if you like: no more "wall of sound". It's even more impressive w/ highly compressed music, I'm listening to "Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels\09. The Stooges - I Wanna Be Your Dog.flac" as I'm typing this...this tune is unlistenable on a cheap DAC IMHO.

 
You are making want to upgrade more and more... I do hear some congestion on almost any headphone I've ever used. Surely, I don't expect to be miraculously free from any and all congestion, but I am becoming more curious.
 
Quote:

I have a nice M-audio DAC that I plan to mod later. It sounds good to me. There is definitely diminishing returns in play here. I have never had the chance to really listen to a good DAC, so I can;t say anything about different or better sounds. If you get the Anedio or some good pro DAC, be sure to let us know what you think especially in comparison with the D10. 

I will be sure to put up at least some impressions, if not a review of the two(, but a review from me probably wouldn't matter much due to my lack of experience in DACs.) After this thread, I think I am certain about getting the Anedio D1. However, I am a bit short of cash, so it will probably take me a month or two to get it.

 

[Currawong]

You'd hope from a more expensive DAC to get better detail and resolution (lower distortion) especially with fast-paced music and, if acoustic music was one's thing, would present instruments more naturally.  One thing I realised early on was that a lot of what people hear as differences were really only tonal differences, which don't always show up in regular RMAA tests.  A subtle change in the DA chip configuration or analog output stage can make a DAC sound "clinical" or "cold" versus "musical" or even "warm". If upgrading, I'd want at least a better power supply and more expensive, higher quality parts versus what I already owned.  There was an article someone linked to where the author suggested finding the equipment one likes the sound of, then upgrading it to take it as far as it can go. Any subsequenly purchased gear would have to exceed the performance of one's upgraded reference.  I think this is a good way to go about things.

 

[leeperry]

 

 
You are making want to upgrade more and more... I do hear some congestion on almost any headphone I've ever used. Surely, I don't expect to be miraculously free from any and all congestion, but I am becoming more curious.
 

 
Anything based on dual opamps will sound congested IMHO...TI know a thing or two about those chips: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa1612.html
 
"The dual version features completely independent circuitry for lowest crosstalk and freedom from interactions between channels"
 
That's the reason why many DAC's use a dual mono design...hell, even the newer Creative soundcards use two LME49710NA instead of one LME49720NA. It's a well known fact amongst opamps rollers that single opamps provide a much clearer and less colored soundstaging.

 

[wind016]

Great info! I know what to avoid now.
 
BTW, I just noticed that PerfectWave DAC can be had around $1600. Close to my budget limit...  Time for me to research a bit, but anyone have any thoughts?

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

The PerfectWave looks really awesome, it has balanced, unbalanced, I2S, and networking options. The I2S looks like it is really good and it will probably gain traction in the coming years. Of course, look for some reliable reviews and things like that. Anedio really looks like they are trying to provide the most bang for the buck, and they are going to come out with an improved DAC with 24/96 via USB and probably balanced connections at some point. Just something to consider, but I bet you can't lose with the PerfectWave either.

 

[winzzz]

has anyone heard the ARC DAC8 ?

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

BTW, I just noticed that PerfectWave DAC can be had around $1600. Close to my budget limit...  Time for me to research a bit, but anyone have any thoughts?

 
Would you be willing to drop that kind of cash when the M903 is so very, very close ?  Sure, I'm beating up a product that I havent heard, but when you are looking to spend that much money .....
 

 

[wind016]

But i can't seem to find the Grace M903 used and it's not cheaper than the Anedio new...
 
If it sounds better than the Anedio though, I think would get it. But then I can get the PerfectDac around that price used...  ugh... decisions.
 
Quote:

Quote:

BTW, I just noticed that PerfectWave DAC can be had around $1600. Close to my budget limit...  Time for me to research a bit, but anyone have any thoughts?

 
Would you be willing to drop that kind of cash when the M903 is so very, very close ?  Sure, I'm beating up a product that I havent heard, but when you are looking to spend that much money .....
 

 

[estreeter]

It could be quite a while before you find the M903 used ... the upside is that several of the faithful may soon be selling their M902s to make way for the new DAC/amp.
 

 
Quote:

But i can't seem to find the Grace M903 used and it's not cheaper than the Anedio new...
 

 

[ardilla]

I had the m902 and couldn't really tell the difference between my $300 CDP and the Grace. However, itmight be that the CDP in question had a lousy digital output, so do not draw any general conclusions  As a headamp - however, the Grace shines. Especially the DH650 were faboulus. The Grace felt slightly on the bright side, however, but some beople like that. 
 

 

[ardilla]

I'd like to link in this thread, since it in a very direct way is related to this one
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/534626/best-dac-you-ve-heard