[Dulalala]

Lastly, if I were to buy passive speakers and a speaker amp, is a pre-out useful or a pain in the ass on the headphone amp (assuming I connect the headphone amp to the speaker amp)?

It's useful as a main volume control centre.

 

[Frank161]

Would it be worth it to up my budget by €100 (so to €450 in total)?

Also, are there any other 'stacks' besides the Schiit Stack and SMSL Panda Stack?

 

[squee116]

I can confirm that on average, those ASUS built-in DAC/AMP are not garbage. I used a similar ASUS setup with my X2's, and didn't notice much performance improvement after upgrading to a Schiit Vali/Modi2U combo. It's possible you have a lemon, and in which case, a simple iPod, iPhone or Fiio X1 could show you the difference in DAC quality. The X2's should be efficient enough that an amp would make negligible differences.

I noticed a much bigger difference with my AKG K712's, and my higher-end headphones. I'd say save the money and get a new pair of cans if you still aren't happy with the sound.

 

[Frank161]

I can confirm that on average, those ASUS built-in DAC/AMP are not garbage. I used a similar ASUS setup with my X2's, and didn't notice much performance improvement after upgrading to a Schiit Vali/Modi2U combo.

Maybe I should just buy one of the cheaper DAC/Amp combos and see if it improves something and if it doesn't just return it. But in a couple of months I will be upgrading my pc buying a new motherboard, the MSI X299 SLI PLUS, and I don't know if that has a good DAC/Amp.

I noticed a much bigger difference with my AKG K712's, and my higher-end headphones. I'd say save the money and get a new pair of cans if you still aren't happy with the sound.

I won't buy new headphones, my headphones are new and I don't want to upgrade something which is new.

 

[squee116]

Maybe I should just buy one of the cheaper DAC/Amp combos and see if it improves something and if it doesn't just return it. But in a couple of months I will be upgrading my pc buying a new motherboard, the MSI X299 SLI PLUS, and I don't know if that has a good DAC/Amp.


I won't buy new headphones, my headphones are new and I don't want to upgrade something which is new.

I understand the premise, and sympathize with the thought, but bottlenecks aren't determined by how long you've owned something. Your source gear will do little to improve the performance of the X2s, because the X2s were built to be very efficient and run off most sources. You might be able to expand the sound stage some with an amp, and MAYBE, get a little more extension out of the bass and treble, but even if that were the case, the money you spent on the gear for negligible differences could have been spent on something else with more performance enhancement to your dollar.

A cheaper DAC will provide little benefit over your motherboard (unless it's a lemon), and considering I can run Beyer DT990s (250ohm) and ATH-R70X headphones off my mobo's soundcard to full volume, I don't think an amp would be necessary for your X2. (sound signature aside)
If you just want to try it out, maybe the Schiit Fulla would be the way to go.

Long story short, if you can run them off an iPhone, you should be able to run them off a motherboard, and since an iPhone/Fiio X1/whatever DAP gets you most of the way to max x2 performance, unless your amp/dac purchases are for a future set of headphones, it's return on investment would be minimal. I won't say don't buy an amp/dac. I will say you don't need to.

If it is for future headphones, knowing what you have in mind would inform our suggestions.
As for headphone amps/dacs, I'm a fan of Lake People/Violectric in your region, and the G103 should be in your budget. I don't know what schiit products go for in your area, but I got a lot of mileage out of my Modi 2U, though I'm a believer in multibit now.

 

[Frank161]

unless it's a lemon

Can you please explain what a lemon is? It's the second time you use that term, but I don't know what a lemon is, besides the fruit.

If it is for future headphones, knowing what you have in mind would inform our suggestions.
As for headphone amps/dacs, I'm a fan of Lake People/Violectric in your region, and the G103 should be in your budget. I don't know what schiit products go for in your area, but I got a lot of mileage out of my Modi 2U, though I'm a believer in multibit now.

I can't seem to find the Lake People G103 on their website, do you have a link maybe?

And now let's assume I would buy new and better headphones in 6 months, but I do now have the money to buy a suitable DAC/Amp and not then in the future. Let's assume they are pretty hard to drive (600 Ohms?).

Also, I probably will buy new speakers in a couple of months, probably a small desktop amp and a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 1's (I think, not sure of that yet).

 

[Dulalala]

Can you please explain what a lemon is? It's the second time you use that term, but I don't know what a lemon is, besides the fruit.

I'm pretty sure he means if it's an odd one out. Some DAC/Amp built into the motherboard are extremely bad but most, especially modern ones are quite good.

I can't seem to find the Lake People G103 on their website, do you have a link maybe?

http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/G103-S.html

Just to be clear, these are just an amplifier. No DAC chip inside. You still need to run them out of your motherboard line out.

And now let's assume I would buy new and better headphones in 6 months, but I do now have the money to buy a suitable DAC/Amp and not then in the future. Let's assume they are pretty hard to drive (600 Ohms?).

There are barely any 600 ohm headphones out there for one, and there are even less headphones that are insensitive enough that the Schiit Stack I mentioned won't be able to drive it. My HD800S (300 ohms) can be run off my WA8 at dial 3/10. Granted I do listen at quite a low volume, but my WA8 ouputs 350mW at 45 ohm (supposed maximum) while the Schiit Magni 2 outputs 1W at 50 ohm. That's almost triple the output of my WA8. I can't even go past dial 6 on my WA8 without blasting my ears out. If you wanna buy a future proof device now in case you need it, that's perfectly fine and up to you but I'd personally just save the money for now. Maybe something that you want might pop up and you'll need the cash then.

 

[squee116]

Can you please explain what a lemon is? It's the second time you use that term, but I don't know what a lemon is, besides the fruit.


I can't seem to find the Lake People G103 on their website, do you have a link maybe?

And now let's assume I would buy new and better headphones in 6 months, but I do now have the money to buy a suitable DAC/Amp and not then in the future. Let's assume they are pretty hard to drive (600 Ohms?).

Also, I probably will buy new speakers in a couple of months, probably a small desktop amp and a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 1's (I think, not sure of that yet).

I apologize, I didn't even realize I might have been using a localized idiom. Dulalala nailed it. With your possibly larger budget of 450 Euro, the G103-s and schiit modi might be achievable. As a side note, I very often buy used, which might save you some money and open up some more possibilities,though I understand being hesitant to do so.

 

[Frank161]

Some DAC/Amp built into the motherboard are extremely bad but most, especially modern ones are quite good.

Well, I really don't know if the sound card in my motherboard is any good. If I install the official drivers there is a serious channel imbalance (the right channel is a lot more silent) and I also had problems on the left channel distorting. I want to believe you guys the sound card is good, but I was always told the onboard sound cards are always pretty bad. Would you say the DAC in my Simple Audio Listen speakers is better? There is however a constant hiss when I use the USB DAC of the speakers.

http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/G103-S.html

Just to be clear, these are just an amplifier. No DAC chip inside. You still need to run them out of your motherboard line out.

That's quite expensive and unfortunately there is no line-out/pre-out on the amp.

There are barely any 600 ohm headphones out there for one, and there are even less headphones that are insensitive enough that the Schiit Stack I mentioned won't be able to drive it. My HD800S (300 ohms) can be run off my WA8 at dial 3/10. Granted I do listen at quite a low volume, but my WA8 ouputs 350mW at 45 ohm (supposed maximum) while the Schiit Magni 2 outputs 1W at 50 ohm. That's almost triple the output of my WA8. I can't even go past dial 6 on my WA8 without blasting my ears out. If you wanna buy a future proof device now in case you need it, that's perfectly fine and up to you but I'd personally just save the money for now. Maybe something that you want might pop up and you'll need the cash then.

Sometimes I ask myself why they make amps that powerful. I think there should be a way to limit the volume on all headphone amps, so you can't damage your ears. Anayway, maybe I will be buying a Sennheiser HD700 (edit: or maybe not, some reviews seem to be bad) in the future if there is a good deal on them. I have heard they are pretty good and popular, what DAC and amp would you recommend for that? Schiit Stack again? Is there something the Schiit Stack isn't good for?

As a side note, I very often buy used, which might save you some money and open up some more possibilities,though I understand being hesitant to do so.

If I know what the state of the product is and there is still some warranty on it, I have no problem in buying used stuff. The difficult part however is finding it in Europe (to avaid crazy high import taxes).

 

[squee116]

Well, I really don't know if the sound card in my motherboard is any good. If I install the official drivers there is a serious channel imbalance (the right channel is a lot more silent) and I also had problems on the left channel distorting. I want to believe you guys the sound card is good, but I was always told the onboard sound cards are always pretty bad. Would you say the DAC in my Simple Audio Listen speakers is better? There is however a constant hiss when I use the USB DAC of the speakers.


That's quite expensive and unfortunately there is no line-out/pre-out on the amp.


Sometimes I ask myself why they make amps that powerful. I think there should be a way to limit the volume on all headphone amps, so you can't damage your ears. Anayway, maybe I will be buying a Sennheiser HD700 (edit: or maybe not, some reviews seem to be bad) in the future if there is a good deal on them. I have heard they are pretty good and popular, what DAC and amp would you recommend for that? Schiit Stack again? Is there something the Schiit Stack isn't good for?


If I know what the state of the product is and there is still some warranty on it, I have no problem in buying used stuff. The difficult part however is finding it in Europe (to avaid crazy high import taxes).

Massdrop is running a deal on Sennheiser HD700 right now, though I don't know what import taxes would look like. Additionally, there's a love/hate relationship with HD700s, from most reviews I read. It's pretty evenly split, so you have to make sure it's in your wheel house.

As for price, I see the G103-S for 259 in EU with VAT and shipping included... That sounds like it's in budget to me?

Also, why would you need pre-out or line out from the amp?

 

[Frank161]

Massdrop is running a deal on Sennheiser HD700 right now, though I don't know what import taxes would look like. Additionally, there's a love/hate relationship with HD700s, from most reviews I read. It's pretty evenly split, so you have to make sure it's in your wheel house.

I saw it too half an hour ago, but I am not going to join that drop. I don't want to risk myself not loving them and I don't have the actual money yet, I am still waiting on it, should have gotten it by now...

As for price, I see the G103-S for 259 in EU with VAT and shipping included... That sounds like it's in budget to me?

It is, but adding a Schiit Modi 2 Uber to it is still just in budget, but I would rather keep the €100 unless it's for a DAC/amp I really think I would like. The G103-S isn't really appealing to the eye imo (I know, not the most important thing, but it's still my desk).

Also, why would you need pre-out or line out from the amp?

To connect my speakers to it. Or is just a splitter on the DAC okay (to have 2 outputs instead of one)? I have read some people having issues when they use a splitter.

Also, if I were to buy used Schiit products, do I need a proof of purchase from the seller or something for warranty or is a serial number good enough?

 

[Frank161]

I decided to buy a used Schiit Modi Multibit (tomorrow I will purchase it) and I am thinking of combining it with a (new) Schiit Vali 2. Is that a good combination? (I probably will swap the tube in the future, just for experimentation)

Or do I buy a used iFi Audio Micro iDSD? It's cheaper than the Schiit Stacks I am willing to buy, but is it better? I read the iFi is better?

Also, any recommendations on RCA cables to connect the DAC with the headphone amp (as short as possible)? I was thinking on buying some from ghentaudio, because the PYST ones are a bit too long and I would have to make awkward bends with it. Or is the introprose rigid cross connect any good? Doesn't it pick up interference?

 

[chef8489]

I decided to buy a used Schiit Modi Multibit (tomorrow I will purchase it) and I am thinking of combining it with a (new) Schiit Vali 2. Is that a good combination? (I probably will swap the tube in the future, just for experimentation)

Or do I buy a used iFi Audio Micro iDSD? It's cheaper than the Schiit Stacks I am willing to buy, but is it better? I read the iFi is better?

Also, any recommendations on RCA cables to connect the DAC with the headphone amp (as short as possible)? I was thinking on buying some from ghentaudio, because the PYST ones are a bit too long and I would have to make awkward bends with it. Or is the introprose rigid cross connect any good? Doesn't it pick up interference?

The Modi 2 and vali 2 is a great combo. I have the multibit and the vali 2 and love it.

 

[Frank161]

I'm not going to buy the iFi Audio Micro iDSD, since there is no input switch and some people report they have to physically disconnect the USB cable to get the optical input to work.

The Modi 2 and vali 2 is a great combo. I have the multibit and the vali 2 and love it.

What RCA cables or bridge do you use to connect them to each other?

 

[chef8489]

I use the Schiit pyst rca cable. Had it ship with my vali 2 when I bought it from Schiit.