[cscales]

Well there is a big difference between people giving bogus "opinions" on stuff they never heard, and insulting or attacking people who don't agree with their heros regarding things they never heard. The first is just wasting peoples' time, the second is making it unpleasant to be here. Definitely, the forums are going downhill. I'm disappointed with the way things have been going.

The other thing that is happening is the measurement crowd is sliming into headfi and many of them don't even realize it about themselves. They're spouting theory based on incorrect specs and drawing incorrect conclusions. It just gets worse and worse.

The only thing that matters is how something sounds to you. If you never heard it you have nothing to say. And if you want to criticize something based on measurements that you don't even understand and can't verify or calculations based on unverified specs it just gets impossible.

In the iem thread I'm reading people are going on about the night and day differences between 2 new iems.

I'm new to iems and measurements. I'm just trying to educate myself.

Are they really that different? They don't look that different to my eyes.

Anyone with experience with measurements?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I have not seen any correlation between measurements and how good something sounds. I really don't care to spend any time trying to come up with explanations about why the measurements don't work. Sometimes measurements can be somewhat helpful in understanding the general sound signature or glaring weaknesses or strengths but overall they just don't seem to mean much. Somewhat like @Mhog55 said, I generally consider the opinions of people who have similar feelings about equipment I know and then if they make a comment about some gear I don't have or haven't heard, their opinion can be helpful in context. Also, some people express their opinions about what they hear in a way that seems reasonable and trustworthy.

But just to compare charts and draw conclusions without spending time with the gear? There is already a place for that and I hope that kind of "discussion" goes away from headfi.

 

[cscales]

I have not seen any correlation between measurements and how good something sounds. I really don't care to spend any time trying to come up with explanations about why the measurements don't work. Sometimes measurements can be somewhat helpful in understanding the general sound signature or glaring weaknesses or strengths but overall they just don't seem to mean much. Somewhat like @Mhog55 said, I generally consider the opinions of people who have similar feelings about equipment I know and then if they make a comment about some gear I don't have or haven't heard, their opinion can be helpful in context. Also, some people express their opinions about what they hear in a way that seems reasonable and trustworthy.

But just to compare charts and draw conclusions without spending time with the gear? There is already a place for that and I hope that kind of "discussion" goes away from headfi.

I'm thinking I'm really wasting my time following that iem thread. Too many 'Graph-heads'. Worse than bassheads...

 

[XLR8]

I'm thinking I'm really wasting my time following that iem thread. Too many 'Graph-heads'. Worse than bassheads...

Yes, there is another forum starts with s and its analysts with graphs and frequency response has me laughing all the way to the end of the thread.

I wonder what in 100 years headphoners will use to justify their purchase. The mind boggles.

 

[SilverEars]

I'm thinking I'm really wasting my time following that iem thread. Too many 'Graph-heads'. Worse than bassheads...

I'd take graph heads over opinion heads. Opinions are arbitrary.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Yes, there is another forum starts with s and its analysts with graphs and frequency response has me laughing all the way to the end of the thread.

I wonder what in 100 years headphoners will use to justify their purchase. The mind boggles.

That one you mentioned is 2nd on the list of offenders

 

[cscales]

I'd take graph heads over opinion heads. Opinions are arbitrary.

I hear you. We somtimes crave a more objectivity in a subjective world.

 

[elvergun]

I'd take graph heads over opinion heads. Opinions are arbitrary.

I would take the opinion of someone who has heard a headphone over the opinion of someone who has read a graph.

But I would take the opinions of both with a grain of grain of salt unless I was familiar with their tastes and viewpoints.

 

[Rockwell75]

Please don't make a headphone recommendation to someone if you have not owned the headphone in question. Listening to something in a store or at a meet does not qualify you as experienced with that item.

Preach.

 

[GearMe]

I would take the opinion of someone who has heard a headphone over the opinion of someone who has read a graph.

But I would take the opinions of both with a grain of grain of salt unless I was familiar with their tastes and viewpoints.

Ditto...have found graphs are useful for cans to give a general sense of what I might hear...but in the end, the proof is in the listening!

 

[SilverEars]

I would take the opinion of someone who has heard a headphone over the opinion of someone who has read a graph.

But I would take the opinions of both with a grain of grain of salt unless I was familiar with their tastes and viewpoints.

Like I said, opinions are arbitrary. I agree with hearing if for one's self if one wants to find out what they think, but I'd take a graph over opinions of others. I trust the accurate measurements over opinions like I've stated. Graphs will tell me more than somebody else describing what they heard due to lots of subjective factors involved.

 

[Rockwell75]

Graphs will tell me more than somebody else describing what they heard due to lots of subjective factors involved.

It depends on the people and on the situation. If someone has taken the time to study graphs for themselves and how what is represented on the graph correlates both to their own preferences but also to the driver types in question (you can have identical FR in two IEMs with different driver breakdowns and have them sound totally different) then analysis of graphs will likely be the best source of information for them. On the other hand if you have someone who understands the basics of graphs but has not taken the time to really understand how what they like and dislike is correlated to on a graph, but who has a small group of trusted group of friends who, while not necessarily sharing identical tastes, have consistently produced impressions that align with theirs, or that they can relate to...then for this person clearly anectodal reports from trusted sources (rather than graphs) will be a better source of information. I am firmly in the latter category of person...but there are many people I respect in both.

 

[elvergun]

Like I said, opinions are arbitrary. I agree with hearing if for one's self if one wants to find out what they think, but I'd take a graph over opinions of others. I trust the accurate measurements over opinions like I've stated. Graphs will tell me more than somebody else describing what they heard due to lots of subjective factors involved.

Yeah, you have a point there.

I often wonder if established reviewers are being completely honest or if they are trying hard not to piss off some manufacturer. You can't piss off an accurate measurement.

One has to learn whose opinions to trust...and you have to know whose measurements are accurate.

 

[SilverEars]

Yeah, you have a point there.

I often wonder if established reviewers are being completely honest or if they are trying hard not to piss off some manufacturer. You can't piss off an accurate measurement.

One has to learn whose opinions to trust...and you have to know whose measurements are accurate.

That's one of the factors when I say subjective. I say you know more from measurements because the subjective nature of written opinions opens up various issues. Measurements do not have that opinion factor.

When somebody says something is high resolution or better resolution, do you know relatively how much, or what they precisely mean? Does your ear take that factor as much importance? When you hear it for your self, would you perceive similary?

Advertisers and reviewers can do similarly. They can say use a bunch of general positive wordings that make it sound great, but doesn't really describe enough for us to understand or have a perspective.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

But there is basically no correlation between measurements and how good or bad something sounds. And there is no standard for measuring and usually no independent verification. At the end of the day the measurement is a false sense of reality and is worth less than an informed opinion. It's just another form of variable bias parading as fact.

I don't think most graphs and measurements are worth the paper they're printed on. If simulating real conditions, measuring them properly, and displaying them in a way meant to show the truth was standard there would be no discussion, no listening tests, and every manufacturer would just show a chart and you click to buy.