[Fantasysage]

Quote:

Rap does not get the respect it deserves.
 
The genre has it's artistic merits yet some people will never be convinced otherwise.
 
For the record, I mostly listen to 90s rap, but Kanye West is a brilliant producer.  Even with all the craziness, he's no different than weird rock artists like Brian Wilson or Syd Barret, he just happens to be in a genre that some people don't take seriously.
 
The other day one of my coworkers said to me, "I can't stand all that gangster rap."  It was then that it dawned on me that:
 
a) Gangster has more or less been dead for 15 or so years (with some exceptions in the underground).
 
b) Most people that dislike rap only know the radio songs. 
 
That's like saying I should judge rock by the likes of Nickelback and Firehouse.
 

F'n eh man. I put together a master playlist of rap, really need to port it over to grooveshark for these guys.

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Rap does not get the respect it deserves.
 
The genre has it's artistic merits yet some people will never be convinced otherwise.
 
For the record, I mostly listen to 90s rap, but Kanye West is a brilliant producer.  Even with all the craziness, he's no different than weird rock artists like Brian Wilson or Syd Barret, he just happens to be in a genre that some people don't take seriously.
 
The other day one of my coworkers said to me, "I can't stand all that gangster rap."  It was then that it dawned on me that:
 
a) Gangster has more or less been dead for 15 or so years (with some exceptions in the underground).
 
b) Most people that dislike rap only know the radio songs. 
 
That's like saying I should judge rock by the likes of Nickelback and Firehouse.
 

Well said my friend, it's all music and only small minds label it! 

 

[wind016]

Quote:

Rap does not get the respect it deserves.
 
The genre has it's artistic merits yet some people will never be convinced otherwise.
 
For the record, I mostly listen to 90s rap, but Kanye West is a brilliant producer.  Even with all the craziness, he's no different than weird rock artists like Brian Wilson or Syd Barret, he just happens to be in a genre that some people don't take seriously.
 
The other day one of my coworkers said to me, "I can't stand all that gangster rap."  It was then that it dawned on me that:
 
a) Gangster has more or less been dead for 15 or so years (with some exceptions in the underground).
 
b) Most people that dislike rap only know the radio songs. 
 
That's like saying I should judge rock by the likes of Nickelback and Firehouse.
 

I know we're straying from the topic. It's not that Kanye is a good or bad producer. The problem is we can't take most fans of rap seriously either and music composition is a completely different level of difficulty from just lyric writing. The fact that the average person that listens to rap looks like a 15-30 year old wearing a Giant's New Era hat driving in a 1990 Corolla blasting music going around "$ay what up G? Ju$ chillin blood, ju$t hittin $ome hole$ up ageen" is why rap isn't taken seriously.
 
I enjoy good rap all the time, but if I were to imagine someone that listens to rap, I wouldn't be imagining someone like myself.
Also the fact that rap seems to have overtaken rock in popularity has pushed Grado out of recommendations here. I honestly enjoy classical more on AKG than with Grado. I enjoy Ultrasones with trance and pop more than Grado. I enjoy my Audio Technicas with acoustic, jazz, and rock more than Grado. Boosting bass and mid frequencies in headphones is understandable for many genres, but boosting treble is kind of puzzling to me and Grado is ALOT of that.

 

[pp312]

Guys, any of you who thought I wasn't expecting a negative reaction to my opinion of rap would be hopelessly naive. I expected it, and I didn't care, so how's that? I'm not going to say anything more about rap as this is supposed to be an equipment forum and we'll only get locked down, plus my opinion is already well evident. Enough to say that I stand by that opinion and my remarks and your outrage and cries of ignorant move me not at all, and you can fuss and fume all you like and nothing will change. So let's move on....  

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Guys, any of you who thought I wasn't expecting a negative reaction to my opinion of rap would be hopelessly naive. I expected it, and I didn't care, so how's that? I'm not going to say anything more about rap as this is supposed to be an equipment forum and we'll only get locked down, plus my opinion is already well evident. Enough to say that I stand by that opinion and my remarks and your outrage and cries of ignorant move me not at all, and you can fuss and fume all you like and nothing will change. So let's move on....  

Can i just say... You are actually my favorite headfier so keep up the good work!

 

 

[Uncle Erik]

You cannot compare Kanye to Brian Wilson or Syd Barrett. Wilson and Barrett composed original works.

Kanye, and the rest, look for a catchy music riff to sample, add a heavy bass track then liberally sprikle with clichés. Nothing a computer couldn't do.

To take a genre seriously, you must have some element of music composition. You'll find it everywhere else. Taking five or six catchy bars from someone else's composition doesn't count. You'll notice that classical often takes a riff and then turns it inside out and plays all sorts of tricks with it through a composition. Better rock bands do the same. That's musically interesting. You can't just repeat the same phrase over and over, that's boring. Bananaphone has more musical depth than any rap song I've heard in the past ten years.

Musicianship is another issue. Rappers are not musicians. They can't play instruments, nor could they switch genres. Serious performers, typically, study many genres. You could take a good opera singer and drop him into a rock band or jazz ensemble. A traditional African drummer could back a country band. And a fine guitarist can cover jazz and rock out. Rappers are totally one-dimensional. They can't play other genres and neither can they actually compose music.

This is why rap gets very little respect. If a rapper started composing riffs and played them on instruments, a lot of people would take notice. Similarly, the lyrics would have to get away from the database of rap tropes. And if they actually learned to sing - maybe occasionally knocking off small performances in other genres - that would be remarkable. But that just doesn't happen in rap.

The typical fans are another problem. Music education is almost dead. When you're handed an instrument in elementary school and play a wide variety of music, you learn a lot. Most of the teachers will give you an intro to composition and explain a lot of what's happening in the music. I had a great youth and teacher who took us through every element of a traditional march. Others went into classical, jazz, rock, and much else. The more you know about music, the more you appreciate it. But if you've never been exposed to the how and why you'll never understand why some is good and some is bad. You'll just look for something with a danceable beat and completely miss out on a lot of wonderful music because you don't understand it.

In lots of ways, there's a monstrous appeal to ignorance in today's society. You have people who know nothing trying to equate their ignorance with others' knowledge. That their opinion deserves the same consideration as any other despite knowing nothing. Further, some are quite proud about knowing nothing because those who do are "haters."

That's a bunch of crap.

If you're uninformed about music, then get informed. Resources are everywhere and free. Take up an instrument and study several genres. Learn how music works. Then go back with what you've learned and see if rap is something that should be taken seriously.

 

[roker]

Quote:

You cannot compare Kanye to Brian Wilson or Syd Barrett. Wilson and Barrett composed original works.

 
Seriously, I'm sorry you had to type out that whole post.
 
You sound like an old man stuck in the past.
 
Taking old works and reworking them is in itself is an art, that AND, he's created plenty of original beats (yes, with real instruments.)  But it's also an art when you take something completely obscure and lifeless and making it come to life.  Works otherwise forgotten by time or having never achieved any popularity whatsoever injected with new life.
 
Even artist such as DJ Premier who would take the smallest loop from an old vinyl and make into something is not something easily accomplished by most individuals out there.  
 
I drew the comparison to those two artists because they were wackos in their respective genres yet people let it slide because they're considered accomplished geniuses, but when it happens in a genre like rap, less understood by the older generation, we see Kanye as a lunatic but time and time again, he has shown that he's a AAA producer.
 
Let this one die, I've heard "your argument" a million times and you're not going to change my mind anytime soon (vice versa).

 

[wind016]

 
Seriously, I'm sorry you had to type out that whole post.
 
You sound like an old man stuck in the past.
 
Taking old works and reworking them is in itself is an art, that AND, he's created plenty of original beats (yes, with real instruments.)  But it's also an art when you take something completely obscure and lifeless and making it come to life.  Works otherwise forgotten by time or having never achieved any popularity whatsoever injected with new life.
 
Even artist such as DJ Premier who would take the smallest loop from an old vinyl and make into something is not something easily accomplished by most individuals out there.  
 
I drew the comparison to those two artists because they were wackos in their respective genres yet people let it slide because they're considered accomplished geniuses, but when it happens in a genre like rap, less understood by the older generation, we see Kanye as a lunatic but time and time again, he has shown that he's a AAA producer.
 
Let this one die, I've heard "your argument" a million times and you're not going to change my mind anytime soon (vice versa).

I don't think you understand the massive complexity difference between making beats and composing music. Defending remakes is just terrible. There's a huge difference between writing your own music and "Hey! Let's make this sound cooler." I think you'd probably have to have played an instrument or been in some sort of band to understand. I'm too lazy to put much effort in this debate.

 

[pp312]

 
Gee, I'm blushing.
 
So can I rely on you to stand in the way when all the rap fans come to tar & feather me? 

 
Quote:

Can i just say... You are actually my favorite headfier so keep up the good work!

 

 

[rds]

Quote:

True, the newer RS1i just do not sound as good as all previous iterations IMO. One needs to either use jumbos or reversed HD414 to create more distance between the ear and driver for the RS1i to sound closer to the RS1; they really did do something to the RS1i that makes it sound not so good with its stock bowls. If it ain't broke, don't fix it; RS1i changed for the worst. I have heard and owned quite a few RS1i to know this by now.

I'm definitely not the only one who finds the RS-1i to be improved
 
Oh and on the subject of rap: isn't this just a 'what is high art' discussion? I think it's been decided that the answer is whatever critics say it is ...and for a reality check few critics take any of rock or pop be in the realm of high art (the same is not true of jazz and classical).

 

[Antony6555]

Some non-mainstream rap is ok, lyrics are not cliche and the sample are cool. Of courses, it still doesn't take that much skill, but at least it's interesting to listen to. Defending Kanye, though, is like defending Taylor Swift imo. Hating on rap is a little unfair though, it's not like it takes that much skill to play the chords they play on most mainstream rock albums. Also, not all modern music is simplistic, some non-mainstream electronica is pretty complex.
 
Quote:

 
Seriously, I'm sorry you had to type out that whole post.
 
You sound like an old man stuck in the past.
 
Taking old works and reworking them is in itself is an art, that AND, he's created plenty of original beats (yes, with real instruments.)  But it's also an art when you take something completely obscure and lifeless and making it come to life.  Works otherwise forgotten by time or having never achieved any popularity whatsoever injected with new life.
 

 

[jaakked]

I also prefer the rs1i.
 
Quote:

I'm definitely not the only one who finds the RS-1i to be improved
 
Oh and on the subject of rap: isn't this just a 'what is high art' discussion? I think it's been decided that the answer is whatever critics say it is ...and for a reality check few critics take any of rock or pop be in the realm of high art (the same is not true of jazz and classical).

 

[roker]

Quote:

I don't think you understand the massive complexity difference between making beats and composing music. Defending remakes is just terrible. There's a huge difference between writing your own music and "Hey! Let's make this sound cooler." I think you'd probably have to have played an instrument or been in some sort of band to understand. I'm too lazy to put much effort in this debate.

 
You're right, they just play old records and talk over them.
 
I understand now.
 
/sarcasm
 

 

[wind016]

Quote:

 
You're right, they just play old records and talk over them.
 
I understand now.
 
/sarcasm
 

You think writing lyrics, creating beats, and playing an instrument here or there is on the same level as composing music? Come on now. I know writing lyrics is tough, but it's nowhere near as difficult as trying to write every aspect of a well composed song with lyrics. Add the amount of skill and knowledge required to play instruments well enough to compose a decent piece with them. Come on.
 Kanye's only touched the surface of music production.

 

[Antony6555]

Pretty much, I guess they also make a beat (actually most have someone else do this for them though)...Sure, sometimes it's still entertaining, but it doesn't really take technical skill compared to other genres.
 
Edit: I won't post anything else, because this thread is supposed to be about Grado
Quote:

 
You're right, they just play old records and talk over them.