[Bilavideo]

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What it seems to me is that people don't want to take the risk of buying them in the first place, but people seem much more relaxed about putting in the money for a Sennheiser HD800. Choice (b) does seem likely, but I have not seen many reviews of the PS1000 beside Bilavideo's. Some I have seen gave reports of quality control issues.

If I can throw in a word without necessarily coming off as defensive, I have my own criticisms of the PS1000 but "quality control" isn't really one of them.  The sound of the PS1000 is really terrific.  Not that many have heard it and more than a few are turned off by the fact that they can't come close to being able to pay for such an expensive headphone.  The only "quality control" issues I've read about have to do with small flaws in the finish of the aluminum.  Aluminum is a very soft metal and easily scratched.  Despite careful handling, a scratch sneaks into the box.  Then, when somebody opens the box and sees a scratch, even the humblest servant will be on the phone to mother, complaining that he or she didn't pay $1,700 to get a scratched up headphone.  That's basically it.
 
My criticism of the PS1000 is not that it sounds mediocre - because it doesn't.  It's that I can build something that will challenge this headphone for a lot less than $1,700.  It's that Grado didn't redesign the headband when he started making heavier cups.  The heavier cups put a strain on the headband.  If you've got jumbo pads, you don't need the cups to swivel.  With the weight of the cups and the added dimensions of the jumbo pads, there's too much weight too far from the head, which makes the whole assembly unstable.
 
Hey, it's not a perfect world.  I call 'em as I see 'em.  As for the HD800, I sold it and the T1 before I listed my PS1000.  When I finally decided to take the plunge, it didn't take any time at all to get my PS1000s sold.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

My criticism of the PS1000 is not that it sounds mediocre - because it doesn't.  It's that I can build something that will challenge this headphone for a lot less than $1,700.  It's that Grado didn't redesign the headband when he started making heavier cups.  The heavier cups put a strain on the headband.  If you've got jumbo pads, you don't need the cups to swivel.  With the weight of the cups and the added dimensions of the jumbo pads, there's too much weight too far from the head, which makes the whole assembly unstable.  
 

Excellent feedback, Bila. The PS1K lists for 2500 AUD here in Australia, and thats currently over 2500 USD at todays exchange rate. The Australian distributor is giving a small discount on that figure, but it still equates to two of the top orthos plus an amp capable of driving them - brand loyalty is one thing, but I dont know two many Head-Fiers who would opt for the PS1K over the latter deal.

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

If I can throw in a word without necessarily coming off as defensive, I have my own criticisms of the PS1000 but "quality control" isn't really one of them.  The sound of the PS1000 is really terrific.  Not that many have heard it and more than a few are turned off by the fact that they can't come close to being able to pay for such an expensive headphone.  The only "quality control" issues I've read about have to do with small flaws in the finish of the aluminum.  Aluminum is a very soft metal and easily scratched.  Despite careful handling, a scratch sneaks into the box.  Then, when somebody opens the box and sees a scratch, even the humblest servant will be on the phone to mother, complaining that he or she didn't pay $1,700 to get a scratched up headphone.  That's basically it.
 
 

 
Well my friend, with grado, quality control and customer service is a big problem for me.  I purchased a GS1k with Black Dragon for $1,200.00 back in 2007.  It was a one of the most expensive phone at the time not counting R-10, L3000, Stax etc and before the arrival of the new phones like PS1000, HD800, T1, ED8, ED10, the Orthos etc.  Long story short, I had a blown driver after a few hours of use, I had paid to send it back for repair, three months later, I received my repair unit black with the same blown driver.  This process was repeated three times and over a year long and each time I received problematic driver back after repaired.  I even talked to Jon Grado after the second time.  I demand that they take my GS1k back based on lemon law and give me another model like the PS1000 where I am willing to pay the difference to no avail.  I am done with Grado. It was their flagship model and not the SR60.  I just have no confidence in their workmanship, quality control, customer support and as a high end company.   It was my worse headphone buying experience.  Since then, I have purchased the HD600, HFI 780, HD800, LCD2, ESW10jpn, ED8LE, UE 10, JH13, from various companies with no problems and my general experience with some of these companies when I have the occasion to interact with them all exceeded my experience with Grado.

 

[kite7]

Quote:

 Changes in the design or sound signature of the RS1 are the only thing that would stop me wanting a pair - YMMV

True, the newer RS1i just do not sound as good as all previous iterations IMO. One needs to either use jumbos or reversed HD414 to create more distance between the ear and driver for the RS1i to sound closer to the RS1; they really did do something to the RS1i that makes it sound not so good with its stock bowls. If it ain't broke, don't fix it; RS1i changed for the worst. I have heard and owned quite a few RS1i to know this by now.

 

[Uncle Erik]

 


 Well, Uncle, what worries me is that the younger members seem most interested in those genres of music that are least demanding of what we older members would term "accurate" or "neutral" sound. Indeed the "fun" sound seems to fit those genres best, and I'm already seeing more and more threads creeping in about Dr. Dres and Skullcandys and Thunderpants etc. Jazz and classical demand very well designed phones to really pass muster to audiophile ears; the requirements of electronica, rap etc are less demanding and may even be better served with cheaper, less "ruler flat" -type phones (as the above-mentioned manufacturers have already discovered to their profit). So I'm not at all sure that the major manufacturers who'll be taking us more seriously in the future will be the ones you presently have in mind.  

Point well taken.

However, musical tastes are not static. I'm pushing 40 and what I liked 20 years ago is just a small part of my listening. I still keep around some of the New Wave I grew up with (no Loudness War in the early days of CD - the old stuff isn't half bad), but I've been consuming more jazz and classical as the years wear on. One of the biggest reasons I started listening to jazz was that my receiver got exceptionally good reception of the local station. It sounded great and eventually pulled me in.

I don't know if younger listeners will eventually develop an ear for other genres. Though I'm optimistic. My experience was that popular culture turned its back on me around 25. After that, I started browsing a lot of "uncool" music just for new experiences and because I knew the mainstream would never give me anything again.

My guess is that a lot of people will find themselves kicked out of the mainstream in their mid-20s and will start exploring genres they didn't consider before. When I was young, I'd be afraid to be caught with an old bluegrass or gospel record. Today, I don't give a crap what anyone thinks. If I enjoy it, I'll listen. If anyone thinks less of me, oh well. I think they're missing out on something they might love.

So while rap and electronica might be popular today, people have a way of changing. They might catch someone playing "Kind of Blue," love it, buy a copy, then burrow into jazz. Then they'll notice that their current headphones don't handle jazz very well.

You never know what will happen. My experience is that my tastes broadened with age. Maybe I'm wrong to assume this will happen to others, but I'd like to think it will.

 

[pp312]

I hope you're right, Uncle. I confess I'm less optimistic, as I believe the foundations for moving on to more sophisticated genres of music have long ago been eroded. I don't want to comment negatively here on any genre, but I'm sure you'll admit that rap is not likely to be a conduit to classical, let's say, or jazz, or perhaps anything much more than other sub-genres of rap. It's more or less self-evident, and probably the same can be said of trance or electronica. The basis for evolution to higher forms simply isn't there, whatever Darwin might say.  

 

[wind016]

Quote:

I hope you're right, Uncle. I confess I'm less optimistic, as I believe the foundations for moving on to more sophisticated genres of music have long ago been eroded. I don't want to comment negatively here on any genre, but I'm sure you'll admit that rap is not likely to be a conduit to classical, let's say, or jazz, or perhaps anything much more than other sub-genres of rap. It's more or less self-evident, and probably the same can be said of trance or electronica. The basis for evolution to higher forms simply isn't there, whatever Darwin might say.  

Sad but true. When Quincy Jones asked not to be compared to Kanye West, all those Kanye West fans started bashing Quincy Jones with all kinds of derogatory names and then "support" Kanye as the best music artist ever.
 
Future looks bleak for rap fans.

 

[rhythmdevils]

The past doesn't look that good either

 

[jaakked]

So reputation? 1.Look at the press Beats gets. 2.Grado has been around a long time(In audio land terms).They are still known as a serious company among those who know. 3.In the commercial market they have always have been an "underdog" company. 4.Search Stereophile magazine( a very "reputable" source) for Grado. 5. What the hell are you talking about?? 6. Number 5 again. 7.Period.

 

[joelpearce]

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I hope you're right, Uncle. I confess I'm less optimistic, as I believe the foundations for moving on to more sophisticated genres of music have long ago been eroded. I don't want to comment negatively here on any genre, but I'm sure you'll admit that rap is not likely to be a conduit to classical, let's say, or jazz, or perhaps anything much more than other sub-genres of rap. It's more or less self-evident, and probably the same can be said of trance or electronica. The basis for evolution to higher forms simply isn't there, whatever Darwin might say.  

Sure it is.  Someone who is serious about music and also likes rap and hip-hop gets a hold of something like The Archandroid, and finds themselves fascinated by the music and where it comes from.  As well, while I'm not a huge fan of the genre either, good rap samples music from here there and everywhere, including classical and jazz.
 
In dance terms, I'd say the same thing.  I mean, if you like dance and rock, you'll probably stumble over funk at some point, which can lead you into fusion, which can get you listening to jazz.  The genres we hate aren't as far from the music we respect as we like to think. 

 

[jaakked]

This is a sadly ignorant post.
 
Crap has always been there and always will be.Maybe you need to get out(or explore more deeply online)more.
 
"Basis for evolution"??!!??  "Foundations for moving on"?????????? What the  @#$# are you talking about?
 
There is more abundance of creative music out there than ever before.Forget about the obvious mainstream though(ex:radio or tv)
 
Quote:

I hope you're right, Uncle. I confess I'm less optimistic, as I believe the foundations for moving on to more sophisticated genres of music have long ago been eroded. I don't want to comment negatively here on any genre, but I'm sure you'll admit that rap is not likely to be a conduit to classical, let's say, or jazz, or perhaps anything much more than other sub-genres of rap. It's more or less self-evident, and probably the same can be said of trance or electronica. The basis for evolution to higher forms simply isn't there, whatever Darwin might say.  

 

[LugBug1]

 
Quote:

I hope you're right, Uncle. I confess I'm less optimistic, as I believe the foundations for moving on to more sophisticated genres of music have long ago been eroded. I don't want to comment negatively here on any genre, but I'm sure you'll admit that rap is not likely to be a conduit to classical, let's say, or jazz, or perhaps anything much more than other sub-genres of rap. It's more or less self-evident, and probably the same can be said of trance or electronica. The basis for evolution to higher forms simply isn't there, whatever Darwin might say.  

ha ha wait for it...
 
 
and here we go!
Quote:

This is a sadly ignorant post.
 
Crap has always been there and always will be.Maybe you need to get out(or explore more deeply online)more.
 
"Basis for evolution"??!!??  "Foundations for moving on"?????????? What the  @#$# are you talking about?
 
 

 

Marvelous!!

   
 
I went from punk, to rock, to classical then I started dabbling in jazz and then back to classical.
 
Getting back to the original debate.. My new sr225's are brilliant for classical   

 

[anoldvolvo240]

to tell the truth, im really enjoying the non "i"s.  they sound amazing, and are smaller for portable use.  im interested in getting some sr60s sometime to have a nice ranged grado line up to split three ways. i had the sr80i's and left them with a friend because they were just picking up dust after i got the 225s. also after listening to a pair of original sr80s, im not sure the difference between the sr and the sr "i" is very major in my opinion. any others find this to be true?

 

[LugBug1]

My new Sr225's are the is's as as far as I'm aware there was the i's with new improved drivers an bowl pads and the is's that have an improved cable with double the copper.
 
Must say the cable looks quality if a bit heavy for portable use.  

 

[roker]

Rap does not get the respect it deserves.
 
The genre has it's artistic merits yet some people will never be convinced otherwise.
 
For the record, I mostly listen to 90s rap, but Kanye West is a brilliant producer.  Even with all the craziness, he's no different than weird rock artists like Brian Wilson or Syd Barret, he just happens to be in a genre that some people don't take seriously.
 
The other day one of my coworkers said to me, "I can't stand all that gangster rap."  It was then that it dawned on me that:
 
a) Gangster has more or less been dead for 15 or so years (with some exceptions in the underground).
 
b) Most people that dislike rap only know the radio songs. 
 
That's like saying I should judge rock by the likes of Nickelback and Firehouse.