[jonnywolfet]

as far as i know, the darth comprise of new cable, new housing, and dampening with unspecific materials. one of the differences between the v2 and v3 is different damping materials that larry only had a limited amount to use. larry may or may not do anything to the driver itself. i suspect not.

for those interested in modding dt770's, experiment with damping materials behind and around the drivers, blue tack in the cups, re-cables ect...
the dt770 does respond well to "tuning" i experimented a bit myself, had varied results, but i like my dt770 stock, albeit with a new cable (only because the single entry did my head in).

for those willing to tinker, go ahead, you will get results.
for those not willing to put the time in, pay larry. i actually think his prices represent fair value for what he does.

my 2c

 

[fatcat28037]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I keep hearing about community, & helping out head fiers. Most people here are very community orientated & very open & helpful. Does Larry have to, no? But what harm would it do to give him a quick one word answer?

This is a community, and a very sharing one at that. However I don't think it unreasonable for a sponsor with a niche market, a very small niche market, to keep the details of what he does to make his living, close to his vest. If a head-fier has questions about repairs or modding we have a forum for that or offer to pay the professional for his time. He's trying to make a living.

Now on sharing trade secrets. I'm a potter, if I spend time developing a Glaze for my pots to make them unique, I'm going to keep it secret. I spent the time and money mixing and firing test tiles to create a glaze that will make my pots different from the other guys. I'd be falling on my spear to hand out the recipe to other potters. My glaze is unique and so is Larry's sound, it's not reasonable to ask us how we achieved our results.

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm gonna stand by my opinion that you haven't studied as much economics as you claim, and leave it at that. Enjoy.

So you try to finish the argument by insulting me?

Who are you to judge my knowledge of economics? I'm disappointed that a long time poster like you has to resort to insults.

What economics background do you have? All you seem to be saying is that the innovator is going to get screwed if someone copies his design and undercuts him. In that event he'ld have to come up with a new innovation. And perhaps that time it should be patented and/or copyrighted so it can't simply be copied.

Do you know anything about how supply and demand works? There's more to it than demand goes up, prices go up if supply is constant. There's a maximization point where consumer's demand is met with producer's supply. I can almost guarantee that Beyer mods are not sitting at or even close to that point. It's inefficient quite simply. By lowering his price more people would buy it and he'ld end up with more money.

So what should happen eventually? Someone will notice that there is more money to be made and will enter the market. Whether it be a copy or not, as long as it's a direct competitor that will do. That in turn would cause prices of the whole market to move towards equilibrium.

Also, what will happen as a result is someone will innovate further to try to sell their product even more.

In the end, the consumer gets lower prices and better products.


Headphile needs to patent and/or copyright their product. It's just stupid not to...do any of you know that they haven't already? I don't see why they wouldn't have by now as they're making decent money.

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Horrible, isn't it?

Why would he be banned?

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't really understand what the issue is. Larry spent lord knows how many hours working on mods, tweaking them, and making a small business for himself because other people value what he's does for many reasons. Someone else comes along also valuing his work, but now wants that value for himself without putting in the hours and doing the R&D. This line of thinking seems to run like this: 1. You do the work for me. 2. Now tell me what you did so I can copy it without doing the work myself 3. I deserve this information because I want it Can someone say entitlement? The remaining comments about free markets, global competition, open sources, etc. are then tossed out to justify the first three points. Bullhooey. 1. Someone has done the work, a lot of it. 2. They don't have to tell you anything because they did the work, not you. 3. No, you don't deserve this or any information simply because you want it or are curious. 4. If you want to mod your headphones, do it. Telling people or not will then be your choice to make. EDIT: Also, how could someone be offended about Larry's response stating that he didn't offer DIY tips? He doesn't have to, and there are many resources that offer. That was a simple, factual statement. How could anyone take offense?

You're right...he doesn't have to say anything. There's no reason he should have to.

I wasn't offended, rather it just wasn't what I expected. It was off putting for lack of a better term.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I keep hearing about community, & helping out head fiers. Most people here are very community orientated & very open & helpful. Does Larry have to, no? But what harm would it do to give him a quick one word answer?

Perhaps I would have taken some of his business?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should see some of the threats he's made in private to DIYers who happen to sell some of their own custom woodied Grados... There's so much I'd love to say in this thread, but it'd pretty much guarantee me a permanent ban.

That's just wack

 

[ericj]

I think he'd have a hard time patenting them.

For nearly every physical change anybody can think of making to a headphone enclosure, there's prior art dating to the mid 1970's, a lot of it in patents that have since expired.

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpeezy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just kind of want to get my thoughts on this out there. 1. It's unethical to copy Headphile designs for anything other than personal knowledge. 2. I'm a consumer. I'm obviously fine with a Headphile competitor. Another innovator would be awesome for buyers and for the headphone community in general. Who knows what another innovator like Larry could think up? I guess that's all I have I've forgotten what I read in this thread Also, I think there's a misconception going around here. AFAIK, people aren't saying that it's ok to "let Larry do the work, ask Larry what he did so you don't have to do the work, and assume that you deserve it". I think most of the questions are coming from consumers wondering what they're paying for and people looking for knowledge. I think both of those motives are fine.

Someone else agrees that competition would be good?

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I still can't understand why anyone would assume that Larry would give DIY advice? Especially when it's a question that is so rudimentary and answered multiple times on this site. Larry is a business, his business is modifying headphones with mods he developed. Why in the heck would he help someone else do this? Do I agree with everything that he does, no, but I suspect he's not my biggest fan either.

I actually didn't find Headphile through Head-Fi. I found Headphile on google searching for Grado mods. So while now I have all these resources...before I was having trouble finding a simple answer and thus I thought someone like him could help me out a little. Apparently I asked for too much

 

[grawk]

Ok, I never said competition was bad. I said that cloning wasn't good for consumers. So in addition to not knowing the economics you claim to, you also either can't read, or willfully misread the words of others.

 

[Deathwish238]

roflmao

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you're an economics major, and you can't understand there are situations where competition is bad for consumers, I'm guessing you'll end up with a new major at some point. I'm a free market person, but asking someone to tell yo how to undercut them is outright stupid. There's no way a low volume producer can compete with DIY cloners who sell things for less than than the cost of parts plus minimum wage.

I do also like that you repeatedly ignore my points and think that insults make your "points" anymore valid

 

[Ogresmash]

This is a little silly. Of course Larry has the right to protect his designs and not divulge information if he chooses not to. He's running a business, not a charity. Does that make him a bad person? Absolutely not, he put a lot of work into his design and obviously spent a lot of time researching it, he deserves to profit from it.

That said, if it's true that he actively seeks out others making similar mods and threatens them, or threatens those that purchase his product and examine them, then I'd say he's crossing the line. People have every right to not only make similar mods, but completely copy his if it's not patented or protected in any way. People also have every right to open up and inspect the changes he's made to a product they have purchased.

 

[Deathwish238]

Exactly. While it may be unethical...I don't think the person who's doing it in the first place cares. It's all about making money

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm gonna stand by my opinion that you haven't studied as much economics as you claim, and leave it at that. Enjoy.

i think resorting to such insults is childish, why would you reply in such a manner to a person who's politely trying to get his point across?

i think deathwish has very valid points. and in some ways, so do you.

 

[grawk]

Competition from people who don't innovate isn't the same thing as competition in general.
Competition from people who bring nothing new to the table discourages innovation which is bad for the consumer, especially given a very limited marketplace.

 

[ericj]

But if the competition dilutes your product differentation, you have to do something to differentiate your product again.

 

[goober-george]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Competition is only good for customers if it's actual innovation. Copying others designs is bad for the community, because it gets people to stop innovating.

So if a person came out and decided he would start modding headphones cheaper then Larry, with his own craftmanship (theres only so many ways you can mod a headphone) would he be immoral? Should he be immune from people challenging his prices?

 

[oicdn]

I think alot of people are missing the point. They're not wanting a clone per say (although, inadvertently, one may come of it), people want to know what's getting done for their money.

Clones aren't necessarily bad for the community, look at all the variations of amps that have arisen from people cloning and thus also improving on. Initially it may appear bad, but look at the portable amp market now, as compared to how it was a couple years ago. You think it got that way from people putting self destruct screws on stuff to protect designs? No, it came from cloning and modifying. As how anything else is made, something is copied then made better (or worse) in one way or another. It's like that in every industry. And it's called PROGRESSION.