[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif This comment irks me a bit, there's nothing stopping ALO (who i assume you are referring to) or anyone else from offering a similar service to headphile. Ultimately, competition benefits the consumer. I happen to prefer the look of ALO's woody Grados over Headphile's, for instance. What i agree with is that to take apart and clone a Darth Beyer is morally, if not legally, unsound, but there's nothing stopping another vendor from offering a Beyer modification service, nothing at all.

I see nothing wrong with it. If headphile doesn't protect their product than that's their fault.

Someone else can't reverse engineer and sell the same thing if it's protected.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif To keep the ink from drying out, don't run it empty. Leave a little in there for them to suck it out when they refill it, keeps the heads "primed and moist" so to speak.

You misunderstand. I need to print something about once every six months. I was tired of getting 8 pages out of an ink cartridge before the jets were clogged.

He wouldn't tell me how to unclog them, but i could plainly see the $24 harbor freight ultrasonic bath on his workbench.

The 2nd problem, after how to unclog them, is how to prevent them from becomming clogged as the printer sits on the shelf unused for 6 months.

I didn't like his attitude so i took my business elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif there's a fine line between supporting the community (both grado and larry support headfi in any number of ways) and giving away your business and having to do something else for a living.

But what he does isn't that hard for anybody who knows wood and has the right kind of lathe.

Not talking about how his designs work doesn't protect his business from people who intend to compete with him. They'd probably have to get a genuine specimen in hand to be sure they were on the right path anyway.

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif If there is no profit margin to be made because nothing can be kept proprietary, guess what happens? Total stagnation, no inovation, dead market.

I know! Look at how Wikipedia is falling apart before our eyes, and Ubuntu Linux is all but a memory of halcyon days.

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can compete with free. It's called lazy or uneducated or unwilling people, and you charge them a premium for doing the work for them. Example? the iMod. It could be done by several DIYers, but many of them are unwilling or unwanting to have to mess with it, so they pay Vinnie to do so. Everybody knows what's involved with the iMod...no magic there, he even states it blatantly on his site. I would say that's just as niche a market as the Darths are and he's doing just fine. There's ALWAYS competition out there. Open Sources compete with other open sources. All it does is make for a better community buy adding something that the others haven't or can't give.

Right, I don't have time so I bought a mini^3 from RockHopper instead of making one myself

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know! Look at how Wikipedia is falling apart before our eyes, and Ubuntu Linux is all but a memory of halcyon days.

hmm? I'm not sure what you mean by Wiki falling apart

 

[grawk]

he was trying to say that wikipedia hasn't suffered from being opensource. Of course it hasn't, it's completely free, and so is the ultimate competitor.

It's not a valid comparison of course, but when has that ever stopped anyone?

 

[Deathwish238]

haha I see.

Either way, most are not gonna have much luck convincing an Economics major that competition is bad.

 

[markl]

Quote:

I know! Look at how Wikipedia is falling apart before our eyes, and Ubuntu Linux is all but a memory of halcyon days.

Um, dude, the free product is not the one that will "fall apart". If Wikipedia were a good scholarly product, instead of a bunch of questionable information subject to a lot of jokers, it would absolutely be a threat to Encycopedia Britanica, etc. and would likely put them out of business. Then all you have is dumbed-down Wikipedia and no competition. Get it? As it is college professors won't accept Wiki references and with good reason, so the encyclopedia market is safe.

 

[grawk]

If you're an economics major, and you can't understand there are situations where competition is bad for consumers, I'm guessing you'll end up with a new major at some point. I'm a free market person, but asking someone to tell yo how to undercut them is outright stupid. There's no way a low volume producer can compete with DIY cloners who sell things for less than than the cost of parts plus minimum wage.

 

[QQQ]

What if there's no internal changes with DB? Only wooden panels?

 

[Shahrose]

i wonder if anyone's actually opened their DB's to see the inner workings.

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Um, dude, the free product is not the one that will "fall apart". If Wikipedia were a good scholarly product, instead of a bunch of questionable information subject to a lot of jokers, it would absolutely be a threat to Encycopedia Britanica, etc. and would likely put them out of business. Then all you have is dumbed-down Wikipedia and no competition. Get it? As it is college professors won't accept Wiki references and with good reason, so the encyclopedia market is safe.

Wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica...


Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you're an economics major, and you can't understand there are situations where competition is bad for consumers, I'm guessing you'll end up with a new major at some point. I'm a free market person, but asking someone to tell yo how to undercut them is outright stupid. There's no way a low volume producer can compete with DIY cloners who sell things for less than than the cost of parts plus minimum wage.

Give me an example. I'll just pretend you're being nice. I have never ever once heard of a time where competition was bad for the consumer that did not involve things like utilities.

If headphile legally protects themselves...explain to me how someone else can just undercut them and sell the exact same thing.

If a DIY cloner starts making a business selling what he sells, headphile can sue the hell out of him.


Here's a great example...oil. It's controlled by an ogilopoly. They have no competition. They set the prices and that's all there is to it. The consumer gets screwed and has to pay the high prices.

 

[grawk]

Here's an example: someone who spends lots of time innovating, and then sells for just enough money to earn a decent living. Upon getting cloned, decides the market isn't worth being in, and exits the market. Since the innovator is gone, the consumer is harmed. We're not talking about commodities. We're talking about a niche market. Oil, on the other hand, is a commodity. The price is set on a worldwide market, by supply and demand. The more suppliers, the lower the price. The more demand, the higher the price. So the price of oil isnt' set by greedy oil companies, it's set by oil hungry consumers, which is a marketplace that expands every day as more people enter the industrialized world and need energy.

Lawsuits only really benefit lawyers. Suggesting that a 1 man operation is well served by patenting his innovations and then suing people that copy him misunderstands what's involved in intellectual property law.

I'll go on record and say that I don't believe you're actually a student of economics, and if you are, you've not gone very far in the study.

 

[Deathwish238]

Your example is a very extreme one. However you're ignoring one big thing...he can't simply be cloned. Someone has to take his idea and change it significantly enough and then sell it.

At the same time, if his product is worth it over a clone why would the majority buy the clone? They wouldn't.

And no, oil is controlled by OPEC. They're a cartel. A bunch of companies that price fix. Have you ever turned on CNN?

Sorry dude, but you're making yourself look like a fool.


Once again, if competition is bad for the consumer why would AMD be doing so well? Intel was forced by the USA's gov to let AMD build processors derived from Intel's microcode. If that never happened AMD probably wouldn't be much today

 

[SR-71Panorama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Competition is only good for customers if it's actual innovation. Copying others designs is bad for the community, because it gets people to stop innovating.

I think this sums it up. Look at the market for Sennheiser replacement cables. There is plenty of competition, and plenty of designs. I don't doubt for a second that Company B reverse engineered Company A's product just to see what Company A was offering, then come up with a different design; improve upon it somehow, or offer an alternative. If they don't know what Company A is doing, how can they be sure their product is a true alternative/better product?

I think it would be wrong to sell an exact clone of anything: I think sellers should change the design enough as to offer an alternative. Sort of like paraphrasing in literature. But I don't think its wrong to clone a product for ones own use, if the know-how is there.