[rbf1138]

rbf: if you think the RE0 sounds too anemic, but prefer that clean, analytical like sound, might want to give the DBA-02's a shot.  They would definitely remove that "veil" ish element that you seem to be experiencing, yet still have a healthy, and punchy accompany of bass, making them pretty attractive sounding, but clean, as well.  The CK10's that you have too, should probably accomplish the same thing, though.

I was getting the sense that the hierarchy or path was RE0 >> DBA-02 >> CK10. So, I just decided to bypass the middleman and go directly to the Ck10. I'm considering the Fischer's also, just to compare, but so many people on Headfi seem to love the CK10 I figure I can't go wrong trying that first.

 

[Inks]

Actually, the DBA02 was actually the safer bet from what I've seen and heard (used both). The CK10 sound harsh to some and getting the perfect fit on them is tricky. The DBA02 on the other hand, is a lot more user friendly ime and the frequency response is more accessible. Regardless of that, ymmv so good luck. 

 

[james444]

Quote:

I disagree with the presence of the veil with the Westone 4.
 
I have the Grado GR10 right now as well as the Westone 4. The GR10 has great clarity and definitely near the top in terms of clarity of an earphone I've heard. Next to the GR10 the Westone 4 doesn't have that kind of clarity but I wouldn't say they have a veil.
 
Something like the IE8 on the other hand definitely had a veil to it. While the W4 doesn't have the type of clarity that the GR10 has I wouldn't say that it is lacking in detail next to them so I'm not quite sure where the veil comes from but I guess we all hear differently. I'm definitely interested in other opinions if they hear a veil or not.

 
The IE8's veil is a side-effect of too much upper-bass invading the mids. EQing down their bass hump does significantly improve their clarity.
 
That said, not many IEMs are able to rival the GR10, as these are extremely clear and crisp. I'm constantly amazed at how MAs retain utmost clarity even in the very lows.
 
Last but not least, the W4 were in the mail yesterday. I've only had time for a brief first listening session, but going through all included tips + Shure Olives and Atrio double flanges, I'd say that I perceive a kind of "veil" with some tips, especially the grey Shure silicons. Others sound noticably clearer, e.g. the stock clear silicons (no pun intended . The Atrio tips are the longest I've found to fit the W4 and these sound very clear, though also a bit sibilant. My guess is that the W4's short nozzles don't synergize well with tip tubes made of soft material, like the Shure silicons. But overall first impressions with clear silicons and Olives are pretty good and the W4 may well turn out being the best multi driver BAs I've heard so far.

 

[rawrster]

I didn't think of that so I guess tip selection is pretty vital here. Although I'm using a soft tip in the Meelec biflange tips with a spacer. I couldn't get a good enough fit with any of the stock tips.
 
Either way I look forward to your thoughts (@James444) when you get some more time on them and that's a pretty fast arrival for the W4.

 

[RADI0HEAD]

Listening to the RE0 A/B with the W4, I can see why others would feel the RE0 is anemic and thin, even distant. Comparatively, the W4 is warm, full and more immediate. As a result, drums can sound a bit muffled, and vocals (particularly female) can sound like they're being sung into a pillow or fabric. I think the RE0 makes drums sound like they're really cracking and being played in an open room without sound proofing, whereas the W4 sound like it's in a small studio space thats dampened. I'm really interested in what the CK10 will sound like. I'm torn on whether the W4 is just going to be my alternative choice, or if I'm going to sell it entirely.

A/B'ing with the CK10 I'm hearing the same thing. Sometimes I think they(W4) are too thick sounding and that thickness is covering up other musical passages. Sometimes vocals sound as if the singer is singing into a blanket and other times vocals sound distant or recessed. It depends on the recording/passage. I'm not hearing it all the time, some recordings sound rather good. I tried different tips but the best results are coming out of the triples. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them either. I'll give them more time and if I can't adjust I'll gift them to my brother.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I think those of you who think the W4 are "veiled" sounding should try an experiment - use the W4 and only the W4 for a week or two, with the best tips that you have for getting the sound closest to how you like it.  Then after that week try your other IEM, and note your first thoughts that come to mind as you hear them with ears and brain that are tuned in for the W4.
 
I'm one of those that after doing that finds the CK10 or SW-Xcape to sound painfully bright, and my Monster Turbine Pro Gold to sound dark and muddy in comparison, while the UM3X and TF10Pro sound doesn't change much at all with the long brain burn-in from using the W4.  I'm also using the Westone UM-56 tips as my favorites, but in silicone since I lost my vinyl set.  Still, it seems to me that the W4 sound best when one is not hopping from one IEM to another frequently, especially between ones with different sound signatures.  Listen to a bright IEM like CK10 for a while and anything after that will sound veiled or dark.  I used to find my Stax O2 to sound dark and bassy, because I was switching often from brighter phones like HD800, HE-5 or Grado RS-1, but when the O2 are the first ones I put on my head for the day I can't hear any darkness or lack of treble in them at all (same with the LCD-2 which remind me of the W4 in a full size can).
 
When I went on spring break for a week (returned only 2 weeks ago) I only took my W4 and ES5 with me, and I used the W4 more because the ES5 were too isolating and it drove my family nuts when I didn't respond to their yelling at me.  I was still a very happy camper.  The W4 are not as detailed, vivid and sparkly as the ES5, and in a direct comparison you might want to say that the W4 are "veiled", but really they're just more laid back but still very detailed.

 

[Inks]

People said the same for the SM3 at some point. Preferences and past/current gear have a big role. 

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

Hello,
 
No veil to me with the sensorcom tips....
 
 

 

[james444]

Quote:

I didn't think of that so I guess tip selection is pretty vital here. Although I'm using a soft tip in the Meelec biflange tips with a spacer. I couldn't get a good enough fit with any of the stock tips.
 
Either way I look forward to your thoughts (@James444) when you get some more time on them and that's a pretty fast arrival for the W4.

Well, I noticed that almost instantly about the Shure silicons. These have always been clearer sounding than the Olives with my SE530, so why are they suddenly warmer and more veiled with the W4? The only explanation I can think of is that the Olives have a solid inner tube whereas the Silicons' tube is rather soft. My guess is there must be some dampening effect from the soft silicon due to the W4's too short nozzle.
 
Shipping was pleasantly fast from iHeadphones uk, though they did a subpar job with the packaging. The phones came only in a thinly padded envelope and the W4's cardboard box looked pretty beaten. The IEMs themselves were unharmed, but still I would have expected better packaging for such an expensive item.
 
Took them out for a 45 minute walk to work today morning, alternating with the EX1000. Both have their upsides and downsides for that, less isolation and more wind noise on the Sonys, pretty obvious occlusion effects (thumping) on the Westones. This hobby is riddled with tradeoffs...

 

[munkyballz]

^ James, I must say I'm dripping of envy of all of the top tier IEM's you've been able to own/listen to.  Lucky guy.

 

[HynchSidrick]

Quote:

I think those of you who think the W4 are "veiled" sounding should try an experiment - use the W4 and only the W4 for a week or two, with the best tips that you have for getting the sound closest to how you like it.  Then after that week try your other IEM, and note your first thoughts that come to mind as you hear them with ears and brain that are tuned in for the W4.
 
I'm one of those that after doing that finds the CK10 or SW-Xcape to sound painfully bright, and my Monster Turbine Pro Gold to sound dark and muddy in comparison, while the UM3X and TF10Pro sound doesn't change much at all with the long brain burn-in from using the W4.  I'm also using the Westone UM-56 tips as my favorites, but in silicone since I lost my vinyl set.  Still, it seems to me that the W4 sound best when one is not hopping from one IEM to another frequently, especially between ones with different sound signatures.  Listen to a bright IEM like CK10 for a while and anything after that will sound veiled or dark.  I used to find my Stax O2 to sound dark and bassy, because I was switching often from brighter phones like HD800, HE-5 or Grado RS-1, but when the O2 are the first ones I put on my head for the day I can't hear any darkness or lack of treble in them at all (same with the LCD-2 which remind me of the W4 in a full size can).
 
When I went on spring break for a week (returned only 2 weeks ago) I only took my W4 and ES5 with me, and I used the W4 more because the ES5 were too isolating and it drove my family nuts when I didn't respond to their yelling at me.  I was still a very happy camper.  The W4 are not as detailed, vivid and sparkly as the ES5, and in a direct comparison you might want to say that the W4 are "veiled", but really they're just more laid back but still very detailed.

 
Hi! i agree with you on the highlighted. the 4 is very smooth and effortless. no other universal dynamic or armature comes close in terms of coherence,accuracy,separation. I totally agree that a week is needed for you to get used to it. After that you will be amazed at how it can handle almost any type of music (hip hop may not sound super good compared to ie8/ddm/mtpg) but nevertheless it is all you will need in one package. comfy,sounds excellent,good sturdy build and pricy but worth every penny

 

[shotgunshane]

I haven't found the grey soft flex sleeves to sound good on anything they fit. I chalked it up to the small sound hole. I like the Shure e2c black soft flex sleeves. They are silicon and have a large sound hole but I do have to modify them with the core of an olive or atrio foam tip. The clear flex sleeves also sound good.

 

[RADI0HEAD]

 
Quote:

I think those of you who think the W4 are "veiled" sounding should try an experiment - use the W4 and only the W4 for a week or two, with the best tips that you have for getting the sound closest to how you like it.  Then after that week try your other IEM, and note your first thoughts that come to mind as you hear them with ears and brain that are tuned in for the W4.
 
I'm one of those that after doing that finds the CK10 or SW-Xcape to sound painfully bright, and my Monster Turbine Pro Gold to sound dark and muddy in comparison, while the UM3X and TF10Pro sound doesn't change much at all with the long brain burn-in from using the W4.  I'm also using the Westone UM-56 tips as my favorites, but in silicone since I lost my vinyl set.  Still, it seems to me that the W4 sound best when one is not hopping from one IEM to another frequently, especially between ones with different sound signatures.  Listen to a bright IEM like CK10 for a while and anything after that will sound veiled or dark.  I used to find my Stax O2 to sound dark and bassy, because I was switching often from brighter phones like HD800, HE-5 or Grado RS-1, but when the O2 are the first ones I put on my head for the day I can't hear any darkness or lack of treble in them at all (same with the LCD-2 which remind me of the W4 in a full size can).
 
When I went on spring break for a week (returned only 2 weeks ago) I only took my W4 and ES5 with me, and I used the W4 more because the ES5 were too isolating and it drove my family nuts when I didn't respond to their yelling at me.  I was still a very happy camper.  The W4 are not as detailed, vivid and sparkly as the ES5, and in a direct comparison you might want to say that the W4 are "veiled", but really they're just more laid back but still very detailed.

That's exactly what I'm going to do, use the W4 exclusively for at least a week.
 
I don't hear the CK10 bright at all. Using the supplied tips, olives or sony hybrids, I agree painfully bright. Using triple flange tips like the Shures, Etys or earplugstore the brightness is gone and sometimes wouldn't mind a little more highs. Its very important to get a good deep seal with the CK10. When you do get a good deep seal it is a totally different sound compared to what I hear with the supplied tips. Gone is the brightness and sibilance, the low end is full, everything sounds balanced, no part of the spectrum sounds exaggerated or lacking. If you can get this deep seal then highs sound similar to the W4 although I still hear more clarity and detail from the CKs. As of right now, to me, in comparison the W4 sometimes sounds veiled and some vocals sound chesty. Its as if there's this beautiful sound waiting to pour out if only they would just open up a little bit.
 
I'll let you know how I feel in week.
 
Thanks
 
 

 

[rbf1138]

It's so interesting to me that Radi0head and I have such similar feelings. I'm going to definitely give the W4s more time, though. Out of curiosity, can anyone here speak to which of these source/amp combos may suit me best: Macbook Pro > Nuforce uDAC > Firestone Cute Beyond (current setup) out to the IEMs, vs. iBasso D10 vs. Fiio E7+E9 combo?

 

[shotgunshane]

Interesting. That's why I got rid of the W3 to get the W4. The mid bass of the W3 bled into the lower midrange making male vocals sound too chesty or like they had a cold. Also it rounded rock guitar notes that should have sounded sharper and edgier. The W4 erased all those flaws for me.

I'm guessing the CK10 would sound way too lean for my tastes.